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I didn't state that the rules were the only thing that was important! I agree the look of the miniatures, terrain etc. are a fundamental component of the experience.

But, without a fun game to play that's well designed you'll soon start looking beyond the pretty miniatures and just get annoyed with the function of the game.

Case in point: Sedition Wars and Dreadfleet,

Likewise if you dont like the miniatures, which many dont, it doesnt matter if the rules are good or not either since the miniatures are the main driving force in a miniatures wargame, as if they werent we wouldnt be using them, which is my point.

So saying wait to see if you like the rules first to those who dislike the miniatures is pointless

 Arbitrator wrote:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.

It's who GW are aiming for so it's basically a win I guess?

 Arbitrator wrote:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.

I feel like this is probably aimed at me, but I never said people were wrong to dislike them, just that people saying the Fantasy aesthetic has gone are overreacting. Chaos looks basically the same as it did, and the new faction looks different. We haven't seen anything else new to say that the old fantasy aesthetic has gone.

Also I'm still not seeing the Space Marine, past that they're both vaguely knight like in plate armour. They look like Sanguinary Guard in that they're both in gold armour with sculpted breastplates and face masks, but it doesn't then follow that they look like all space marines. I can see a very vague similarity if you squint, and that's all.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that almost every person with a smug post about how they're happy with the look and that the complainers are 'wrong' has a space marine avatar and/or user title.

I feel like this is probably aimed at me, but I never said people were wrong to dislike them, just that people saying the Fantasy aesthetic has gone are overreacting. Chaos looks basically the same as it did, and the new faction looks different. We haven't seen anything else new to say that the old fantasy aesthetic has gone.

Also I'm still not seeing the Space Marine, past that they're both vaguely knight like in plate armour. They look like Sanguinary Guard in that they're both in gold armour with sculpted breastplates and face masks, but it doesn't then follow that they look like all space marines. I can see a very vague similarity if you squint, and that's all.

I don't blame people for thinking they're space marines. I thought the same when I first seen the pics. I had too look twice.

I like GW models, I have always collected GW models and only GW models. These don't look like GW models.

They are meant to look like Space Marines in my opinion. They share obvious similarities with the MKI Thunder Warriors. Most striking the thunder bolt motif.



Not saying they are the same universe, but WHFB and 40k have always had lots of shared content, obviously chaos, and now the "Thunder Warrior" is also a shared theme.

I am curious to see how the rules work out as well as better pics, however on what i see I am not thrilled by the blood angels Sang Guard in the game... Space Wolves would have been better ....

Really though, I dont like what i am seeing so far from what i can see so I am trying to be positive however, in light of recent 40k codex releases I am not sure that i will pursue this game further unless the rules are really good and i can use my minis w/o rebasing etc.

To be honest, when I saw those miniatures my first thought was "Why, hello there bits for my space marines!"

That's the reason I can say I love these new miniatures

I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines. Might as well say that anyone wearing full plate in any setting ever looks like a Space Marine.

Of course, half of Dakka thinks that everything painted blue looks like a Space Marine, so I guess it's par for the course.

Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I truly and honestly don't see any similarity to Space Marines.

C'mon, really? Fully armoured, big pauldrons, the way the legs, torsos and heads are. You don't see ---any--- similarity? You expect any of us to believe that?

 Ratius wrote:
Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(

I think Lizardmen and Skaven are probably unique enough they might not be too different. Warhammer Dwarfs were pretty generic fantasy dwarfs though...

Oh agreed the Dwarfs were fairly generic but things like the ironbreakers, their warmachines and thanes did have a nice look/feel to them imo. Im just concerned GW does something pretty OTT to them. Like giant dwarf exo suit armor or something!

The Sigmarites look awful. Exactly what I expected, honestly. Fantasy Space Marines indeed.

I'm still hoping we get a decently playable game with model counts in the 2nd edition 40k/Warmachine numbers. If we get that, and Undead is still a faction you can play, I'll happily dig out my Vampire Counts and rebase a bunch to play.

If they're going for even bigger games like some other rumours suggested... pass.

All I've got to do to play the new game is pop some storm bolters off of my grey knights...

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Man. It looks like they've chosen to completely abandon the 30-year old aesthetic that made Warhammer such a unique universe.

Warhammer is now Flash Gordon shoved through a He-Man filter.

Barf.

Warhammer battle was the epitome of generic and boring fantasy, there was nothing unique in it, as far as high fantasy goes, there is other games that does it, better and cheaper.

Warhammer battle had nothing unique.

Boring for you maybe.

Nothing unique, not really. The elements were shamelesly ripped off but GW used to rip off with style and the end result was that beautiful late medieval esque world where teethless bums try to kill you for coins every 5 meters, rats form regular armies and toads are top tier magicians.

The new shiny Age of Nigmos will be just as ripped off btw, this time though the sources will be, oh irony, the cartoonish and Americanised warhammer ripoffs themselves. A full circle so to speak.

And yes I know there's no Nigmos there.

Surprised nobody is commenting on that photoshopped image of a silver paintjob instead of gold. They look MUCH better that way, and don't look a thing like Sang Guard. Once again, models suffer out the gate from "GW painting team is now comprised of colorblind idiots".

My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Surprised nobody is commenting on that photoshopped image of a silver paintjob instead of gold. They look MUCH better that way, and don't look a thing like Sang Guard. Once again, models suffer out the gate from "GW painting team is now comprised of colorblind idiots".

Yeah I agree, they definitely look better silver.

 Genoside07 wrote:
My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.

I think it's more a realization that their customer base has shrunk to the point where they either draw in 40K players to play fantasy or just toss the WHFB in the bin and call themselves Game Workshop because they'll functionally be down to one game (LoTR might as well be tossed out as well).

migooo wrote:


That is a really hard view to take. So your basically saying suck it up?

Yes things change but it's not always a good thing. Sometimes it is people evolve and opinions change but honestly WHF is not the powerhouse it once was. GW need to realize it. 're release Morhiem and Necromunda.

Pretty much. One can also quit playing WHFB. Those are, in the end, your only two choices.

Third is to randomly vent on the internet while riding the doomgloom bandwagon, but that really does nothing for a person in the end. WHFB was a poor game in it's latest stage, and it already had a run of over 20 years.

Agree on the Mordheim and Necromunda, I would buy the gak out of those. Bloodbowl too.

As for the people who on a serious level think that GW has based the launch of a new entire game and it sales on designing miniatures to look like space marines - ridiculous. The designers would laugh at you so hard. Yeah, they got pauldrons. Other than that it's armoured men.

 agnosto wrote:

Spoiler:

 Genoside07 wrote:
My stance on the new edition is still wait and see, I have no plans to start the new Empire "space marine" faction; As I didn't buy into 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons when it came out.
The company made a choice to go in one direction to add new players; but will it counter balance the amount of old players they are loosing.
I maybe getting older but even the new generation of video game systems have not made me want to buy the new Xbox one or PS4; I am happy with playing what I already currently have,
This goes with my current Warhammer, If I don't like what they have done with the new edition, I am happy with what I already own and will continue to play it even though Game Workshop will no longer support it.
But after seeing the pictures and its 40k based miniatures in Warhammer and hearing the rules overly simplified like Lord of the rings game; Makes me want to consider other things; There is to much competition for my dollars for them to think players will just except what they are doing and just buy it. They needed a entry level gate way game at a low price point to bring in new players; Not make space marines for Warhammer that is just pulling money from another section of your business.

I think it's more a realization that their customer base has shrunk to the point where they either draw in 40K players to play fantasy or just toss the WHFB in the bin and call themselves Game Workshop because they'll functionally be down to one game (LoTR might as well be tossed out as well).

It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that they could play equivalent factions in two different games. Seems strange hearing people say "now I can get into WHFB"- was all that was holding them back was having the same army to play again?

This may be a smart move on GW's part as far as creating a bit of a revival, but I don't see it as something that would fix what I feel is really hurting both WHFB and 40k- continuous up-scaling of the game, combined with a bloating rule set, which has been hurting the ability of new players to enter the games. Although perhaps the rule set will be a bit cleaned up...but still, the talk of even *more* massive battles really make me think their plan was just to move all the models to round bases, rather than control game size.

Still, time will tell.

Does anyone feel like trying to figure out what the incredibly blurry text in the bottom right-hand corner of the Chaos page says?

So far all I've made out is something about a 4-page booklet

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Chaos stuff looks great.
Most definitely less convinced about the new faction.
If they are stand alone as a new faction aesthetic I'd be ok but if this is a new shift for the rest of the Warhammer world, Im worried.
Lizardmen, Skaven, even Gws take on Dwarfs had a unique and quite pleasing look to them. Worried that will all be thrown out for some very OTT and semi-futuristic theme :(

I think Lizardmen and Skaven are probably unique enough they might not be too different. Warhammer Dwarfs were pretty generic fantasy dwarfs though...

I'm most worried about what will happen with the elves. If humans now look like space marines does this mean elves are going to look like eldar? I hope not, for one thing I really enjoy painting scale mail armour - and no one does scale mail better than the elves... I'd hope even if the elf factions get an update that their figures are broadly similar to what we already have (scale mail, robes, long hair, elegant and curvy weapons... I'd also like to see a lot more female elves, especially in the rank and file troops - if there is such a thing in the new sigmar edition...)

 Accolade wrote:


It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.

Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? ) Basing the success of a product on one faction of another game?

You can't be serious.

You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea. The image of management and designers meeting and going "let's make them resemble space marines, that's the best way to sell an entire new game into which we've poured hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more, not to mention the countless hours and employees working on it" ( which is what you just said on point ) is just unfathomably dumb.

 Bottle wrote:
They are meant to look like Space Marines in my opinion. They share obvious similarities with the MKI Thunder Warriors. Most striking the thunder bolt motif.



Not saying they are the same universe, but WHFB and 40k have always had lots of shared content, obviously chaos, and now the "Thunder Warrior" is also a shared theme.

That, and Custodians. Converting those is about to become a whole lot easier by the looks of it.

Feeling really, really sad.

I honestly believe that GW did the right thing when deciding to reboot WHFB.
- It needed a lower entry (cash/time) to attract new players
- It needed simpler rules and faster gameplay.
... and I have been playing WHFB for many years using only round bases (and modified/recasted LOTR movement trays).

However, removing the amazing fluff base (ze Old World) and now totally destroying the visual appeal of the game (adding SigMarines and adding yet more unnatural Catachan-esque muscles to the Chaos guys) was, atleast for me, a wrong turn.

I was planning to buy the starter - but cannot find a single miniature that I like/need - and I collect (besides my Dark Elves) Empire and Chaos (having a Marauder army). Was therefore hoping for Witch Hunters, ordinary citizens amd more skinny Marauder types, something more similar to the warriors in the new Mad Max movie.

Also, IMHO, the coolest things in WHFB and 40K is having real people (Empire, Imperial Guard, etc.) fight against impossible odds, not fielding an faceless, über-army of identical, unkillable heroes in +1 armour against some chaos cult.

Not wanting any of the miniatures I will just have to wait until the rules (hopefully good) is released separately.

 Runic wrote:

 Accolade wrote:


It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.

Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? )

You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.

And what grand knowledge do you have that this isn't the case? I remember you telling us before how you had secret knowledge about GW's financials and how they were turning around, so I'd like to hear what happened with that. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that Space Marines alone outstrip all of fantasy- why would GW not try to captalize on this by creating an equivalent in their dying game?

EDIT: oh good, now you're calling everyone dumb. You *clearly* have no good argument in this matter if that's what you're resorting to.

Only a few more days to know if this will grow into a mass battle regiment game or if the loose formations and downsized units will be the way forward.

Style wise I think Im on the safe zone with my O&G because they always have been a bit crazy and goofy, same goes with OTT nurgle.. I don't think they can screw them that much ( if I cant use the glotkin I will convert it to a big nurgle demon). Must say that metal sigmarites look a lot better than their gold versions but still not my cup of tea.

Its important that the game is appealing because both game and miniatures go hand to hand together, assuming that the full 9th version rulebook is coming in later on, I do not support the idea of a small 3 page skirmish game as a starter. Its a pointless exercise if you do not collect those 2 armies.

I like chaos but not the new light faction and I do not want a 3 page rulebook, so this is heading to a pass since the only thing there that I could buy are the marauders ( and for those Im looking at RBG miniatures instead).

Point is if this is going to be skirmish sized game other companies supply individual characters with quite interesting designs so the monopoly of buying plastic boxes with plenty of minis from GW is totally gone if they go this route. There is really no need for it. Also metal miniatures are the best thing for skirmish IMO. I can see full metal armies done with other companies miniatures.

Lots of questions where this is heading but like a big percentage of rumour mongers these days, that sate the obvious, I can use my magic ball and say that 32mm bases will be one of GW best sellers!

 Accolade wrote:

 Runic wrote:

 Accolade wrote:


It does feel really sad that they felt the bes/only way to save WHFB was to draw in their Space Marines customer base so that They could play equivalent factions in two different games.

Do none of you realize that there is no actual evidence of anything like this ( next to the idea being completely ridiculous? )

You all just presume this is the case, while in reality the designers were probably given a task of creating angelic warriors, and this is what they came up with without any thought of "let's make space marines to lure players yo" -in their head. Such a silly idea.

And what grand knowledge do you have that this isn't the case? I remember you telling us before how you had secret knowledge about GW's financials and how they were turning around, so I'd like to hear what happened with that. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence saying that Space Marines alone outstrip all of fantasy- why would GW not try to captalize on this by creating an equivalent in their dying game?

It's a completely new game for crying out loud. And yeah that, that was just to troll a few overzealous people for the giggles.

And I have no knowledge. However I have common sense.

 Accolade wrote:


EDIT: oh good, now you're calling everyone dumb. You *clearly* have no good argument in this matter if that's what you're resorting to.

Nice strawman there. I said it's dumb to presume a company thinks the best/only way to ensure success for a completely new game ( including rules, factions, campaigns and everything that goes with it - the game, that is ) is to make one faction look like Space Marines. It really is just absurd and ridiculous.

Realize the creation of the game has taken immense resources, manpower and hours. Base it's success on making one faction, or atleast some of their units, be armoured men that some think are Space Marines? Get real.