Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan

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**Haight**

Vermis wrote:
Haight wrote:

Also, this thread really has gotten a touch silly. I get that people are passionate. I get that people disagree. But there's a point where point and counter-point devolves into just throwing words at one another on the internet for the sake of it. And then there's just trying to punch one another in the dick with magnetic ink.

Obviously I'm biased, but I see it like this:

"Wow! These models are great! Can't wait until they're released!"

"Oh, no, I really don't like that look. Looks silly to me. I'm going to pass."

"Why are you being negative? Stop nerdraging!"

"The huge suits of armour on these heroic superhuman warriors (long rumoured as 'fantasy space marines') look too much like the space marine aesthetic for my view of WFB."

"They look nothing like space marines!"

"Hee hee! Those angel guys look like the ones Mantic made!"

"GW didn't steal them, y'know!"

"Yeah, but, I was just saying, armoured angels..."

"Mantic stole their stuff too! And they're gak!"

"I don't really want to play ninth ed. I guess I'll just shelve or sell my armies."

"Well hang on! Here are some options you might like to check out, before you do."

"Keep your dirty non-GW games out of my GW thread!"

Not to dictate or guarantee, but if some people could just realise that other people will not like these models or what they represent for Warhammer, and that GW does not exist in a vacuum, I think things could be a bit calmer.
As an added bonus, I'd be a lot quieter.

No, no, I totally get it. I just have a lower threshold of "This isn't going anywhere, not going to yield anything" than some / most i guess.

The other problem is that you can't have a discussion about the game, where its going, what we hope for, without it devolving into absolutist on either side of the argument, pro or con. Which is wearisome ... i'd like to say after a while, but it get's old quick.

Frankly i just want the fething game to drop / release so we can return to our regularly scheduled people that play the game talking about it for the most part, and move on.

Edit: oi. Catching up on the last four pages of this thread just reinforces my second and third sentences above.

**Vermis**

Kanluwen wrote:
Different people have different opinions.

There's opinion, and then there's saying that models with

Giant pauldrons, unrealistic elephant like leg armour, the proportions

from a company with an existing giant-pauldroned elephant-leg-armoured particularly-proportioned bestselling faction for one game, put in a sister game that desperately needs a shot in the arm, and highly regarded by people for the giant-pauldroned elephant-legged bits they can nick for their space marines, has nothing whatsoever to do with space marines.

Hordes as a skirmish game based around a badazz wizard or two and a handful of big, smashy models? Nothing to do with the success of Warmachine.
Corvus Belli's realistic historical ranges shut down in favour of concentrating on more slick, highly stylised armour? Nothing to do with the success of Infinity.
Heck - Epic, BFG, Mordheim etc. 'killed' because of the view that they just weren't shifting enough product for comfort, and but still apparently cannibalising sales from the ranges that were, so that GW could concentrate on more space marines? Nothing to do with space marines.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Haight wrote:

The other problem is that you can't have a discussion about the game, where its going, what we hope for, without it devolving into absolutist on either side of the argument, pro or con. Which is wearisome ... i'd like to say after a while, but it get's old quick.

Frankly i just want the fething game to drop / release so we can return to our regularly scheduled people that play the game talking about it for the most part, and move on.

Edit: oi. Catching up on the last four pages of this thread just reinforces my second and third sentences above.

You're right. I know I'm stuck in the middle of it, but you're right.

**Goldshield**

I think the thing I find just sad is that GW managed to put a skull on every base to make it clear that these are their models.

Yea, I am just going to stick with Teutogen Guard for guys in armor wielding hammers that look much better even if they don't got shields because if we like our models we can keep them. Right, GW?

**jojo_monkey_boy**

Games Workshop continues to demonstrate the uniqueness of their IP by emulating the visual aesthetic of others. The Sigmarites are very world of warcraft with the giant shoulder pads and embellished armour.

Outside of the shoulder pads I think they're decent models.

The chaos warriors look quite nice.

**lord_blackfang**

I suppose we could turn the old "if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" into "if all you know is 40k, every model looks like a Space Marine"

Their legs are pretty much identical to the ones on the Cygnar guys I posted, apart from being a bit worse proportioned. They have nothing in common with Space Marine legs. I nfact they have nothing in common with any part of a Space Marine except that they both wear full body armour (which consists of leg, torso, arms, pauldrons and helmet - just like on a Space Marine! and that one Space Marine unit in the whole game also has sculpted abs.

**Accolade**

Goldshield wrote:
I think the thing I find just sad is that GW managed to put a skull on every base to make it clear that these are their models.

Yea, I am just going to stick with Teutogen Guard for guys in armor wielding hammers that look much better even if they don't got shields because if we like our models we can keep them. Right, GW?

Actually, you pointed this out made me realize these guys have a Chaplain (top right), equipped with a skull helmet and all!

"Praise be the God-Empe-er, King!"

**Jehan-reznor**

I knew i have seen these feet before

**Yaraton**

So.... Blood Angels will get a couple of new kits. Sneaky, sneaky GW! LOL

**Vermis**

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

**Fifty**

I have a question. 25mm, or 32mm?

**warboss**

Avrik_Shasla wrote:

These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.

No one is saying that except for people like YOU who disagree that they look like space marines at all. Fantasy has always had knights in full plate and no one in this thread accused them of being space marines so your "point" is invalid since no one is arguing against it. People are saying that THESE models look like space marines for a variety of reasons including the STYLE of their full plate, not simply that they're wearing full plate. I know it is easier to refute a point that no one is making but it really is taking the low road to do that instead of responding to what people are actually saying.

**ImAGeek**

Seriously we get it now. Some people think they look like Space Marines. Some don't. Neither side is going to convince the other so let's just give it a rest now.

It's like the Mechanicus walker looking like South Park all over again.

**monders**

Finally had to employ the Ignore button on this thread.

Discussion and intense debate - it's a forum, and should be encouraged!

Condescending, self perceived intellectual superiority doesn't have a place when discussing what little plastic toys may or may not look like.

**NoggintheNog**

It is not just full plate. Have a look at MK1 Thunder Armor, as I found on the gallery here :

It even has the same lightening bolt design. The new models obviously bear a striking resemblance to Sanguinary Guard due to the pauldron shape and the masks, but the design elements they share with early marines also suggest this was entirely deliberate, hinting at the chaos infested 'new old world' and 30k/40k are the same place after all.

Whether this is just artistic design to appeal to space marine fans or will be a feature of the story as it moves on is anyones guess of course.

**Pepticsalve**

Fifty wrote:
I have a question. 25mm, or 32mm?

I think the consensus was probably anything that was on a 20mm square base will go to a 25mm round, and anything on a 25mm square base will go 32mm round. Entirely guess work at this point though... I've already been looking on ebay for ranked movement trays for round minis - there's a lot of choice out there which is good...

**nudibranch**

I would urge people to cease the 'do they look like marines' debate, or at least move it to another forum. We've already had one Alpharius warning...

**Rosebuddy**

It seems fairly obvious that the heavily armoured holy elite warriors serving the god-king in the war against chaos would be designed to resemble the heavily armoured holy elite warriors serving the god-emperor in the war against aliens and chaos, especially considering that the latter is the lifeblood of 40k sales.

Not the least because of all the nice bits that the former provide for the latter.

Nobody is saying that these sigmarites literally look like they're literally wearing literal power literal armour, literally. But the chunkiness and the design aesthetic is 100% intentionally shared. Just as much as they're a sort of reverse chaos warriors. If you don't want to see that then *shrug* the fault does not lie with me.

**Abadabadoobaddon**

So I guess they've decided that Khorne is now the god of wearing armor covering everything except your vital organs? It wasn't just the Bloodskullmongers? That's officially his thing from now on?

**lord_blackfang**

Vermis wrote:
We'll stop now for a rest. Do you understand what I've been saying?

Yes, you are saying that two things are exactly the same if you can use the same adjectives to loosely describe them, therefore an F1 racer looks like a tractor because they both have wide tires. Can we stop now?

**Bottle**

Vermis wrote:
Runic's back, everyone! Yaaay!

Bottle wrote:I can understand if people don't like the Sigmarines, but the Chaos too? They retain the current aesthetic but with much more modern designs and very dynamic sculpts. What's not to like? :-)

Just that, I suppose.

Not to say that Warhammer was never weird or wacky, but as people have said, it was it was the gloomy mundanity of Warhammer that drew them in. A bunch of normal guys with halberds and a cannon trying to ward off the horde of weirdos with their dragon. A setting where the wackiness was largely tongue-in-cheek and the weird guys like chaos warriors were defined by their weirdness (and it was weird. I've had a look at one of the old Realms of Chaos books, and the thing that strikes you about, say, the illustrations around the mutation tables is that these are drawn like normal people with horrifying disfigurements, not... what I'm about to describe. Hang on.) as opposed to being made humdrum and generic because of it.

Because it's not so much 'weird' these days anyway, especially with this ninth leak, but over the top. That 'badass, wikkid' aesthetic that seems to have bled through so much pop culture in tabletop games like Warmachine and Malifaux, video games like WoW and Darksiders, so many comics since the late eighties... The look where the guys may have more muscles popping than the Hulk on steroids, when they're not a tiny head peering out of an enormous suit of armour that likely has pauldrons like bathtubs, with little awareness of how it actually fits, stays on, or is able to be lugged about... Where the women are often almost the opposite, where the only 'muscles' that matter are on the front, and the ideal, the challenge, seems to be how little armour you can put on 'em compared to the guys. Where swords are like surfboards and axe blades like coffee tables, and the only way it seems they can be made more 'badass' and 'effective' is the degree to which it looks like they were designed by MC Escher. Where the bad guys are only distinguishable from the good guys (if such exist) because they're not gold, or otherwise brightly coloured; they glower even more; and probably have more spikez and skullz jutting out of them someplace. Where you can tell the good quality of the art style from the number of pointy angles and downright weird proportions they crammed in. It's like Rob Liefeld finally ascended to become the fifth Chaos god of XXX-TREME and his followers have taken up his old cause of wonky anatomy, unworkable armour, and deeply goofy weaponry.

You can have all that. Just have it... over there.

And it's no great comfort to some, to see swathes of WFB slowly follow after that whole, general style, and seemingly finally pop into it with these sigmarines and khorne gym-bunnies, and leave the more... subdued, 'realistic' fantasy aesthetic a bit poorer. Maybe, like people have been saying, the design of the other factions will not be so extreme; but with all signs pointing to the sigmarines as the poster boys of this new game, trying to capture the success of space marines, I think this is what we can expect.

Wow thanks for the essay.

The point you make about people liking Fantasy for it being the average human against insurmountable demonic odds is only relavent for Empire players.

I am an Empire player.

If you're going to bring up how different the design is of these new models compared to stuff 30 years old (is that how old Realm of Chaos is? I dunno), then your problem is not with AoS but where Fantasy has been for years and years. The previous marauders were also tanked on steroids.

The point I was making if you compare the Chaos of AoS to the Chaos of 8th and you were a fan of the Chaos of 8th. What's not to like about the AoS Chaos? They look awesome and every sculpt is packed with energy and movement. GW have done a great job :-)

**Avrik_Shasla**

warboss wrote:
Avrik_Shasla wrote:

These models look fantastic, and like someone had mentioned earlier, just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.

No one is saying that except for people like YOU who disagree that they look like space marines at all. Fantasy has always had knights in full plate and no one in this thread accused them of being space marines so your "point" is invalid since no one is arguing against it. People are saying that THESE models look like space marines for a variety of reasons including the STYLE of their full plate, not simply that they're wearing full plate. I know it is easier to refute a point that no one is making but it really is taking the low road to do that instead of responding to what people are actually saying.

Apologizing here for the rather quick response, I had to get off to work quickly, so now I would rather make my point. Reading through this thread I've seen a lot of banter and people gripping at anything to attempt to connect these newer models to the visual aesthetics of Space Marines, you really don't need to go back more than a page or two to see this. Of course they have similarities to Space marines, they both wear armor, they both share that bulky armor look, but beyond that I cannot say that these new models look anything like space marines. I can take an apple and an orange and say they look absolutely alike because they both have round features, but beyond that I simply can't say more for their texture, color, or taste.

I suppose what I am saying is that you can make connections to anything if you try hard enough. But honestly, round base + bulky armor does not always mean space marine.

In the end, these models are absolutely gorgeous and I commend GW for their work here, they have done a fantastic job putting in a new aesthetic to a dying game, even though this is a new game, and will now hopefully put a new breath of life into the franchise. I myself will be buying two of these box sets.

**Ratius**

Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.

**Avrik_Shasla**

Ratius wrote:
Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.

It does look rather large, but there is another model on the base with him, something I can't pick out.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It looks like some sort of flesh hound (or whatever they will be called now)

**NAVARRO**

Ratius wrote:
Does anyone think the Chaos Lords base is way too big in the first page pic?
I know fantasy characters have always been big hitters and been given lots of "visuals" but I think its very OTT and actually takes away from the model.

Yes I agree its just to big for that model, its almost like my little gobbos would look on a 32mm. Im a bit more concerned with ovals for things like spider riders or huge things like the glotkin. If it comes to the point that all needs to shift to round bases I will try to figure out a way to fit part of my squared bases on the ovals ( maybe cutting the corners or something)

**lord_blackfang**

He fills the base with all his bling, tho.

Better than it overhanging and getting damaged or getting in the way of making base-to-base contact. Just think how problematic Genestealers are on their 25mms.

**NAVARRO**

The sigmarites Icon bearer seems to be on a 25mm base? Looks like he is the only one in that faction set on a smaller base. My spider senses hint that different bases will have different rules?

**AllSeeingSkink**

Avrik_Shasla wrote:
just because someone is wearing full plate does not make them look automatically like spacemarines.

No.... but when that plate armour is excessively chunky, has huge shoulderpads and huge shin protection, THEN they start to look a bit Space Marine-ish.

That said, I don't think they look so much like Space Marines that it's a huge problem in and of itself... but I can definitely see why some people think they look like Space Marines. Maybe not copy/paste, but enough similarity that you could probably throw a squad of them in to a Space Marine as an elite unit and they'd feel right at home.

**nettraper**

I'm ready to see if they will put out some content as to "how" to play the game, being that they are somewhat involved on YouTube with paints.

All surfing opinions great and all what base, what it does and does not look like, truth of matter is : it is their attempt to making something fun, quick and enjoyable.

I felt that when I tried out Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard vs. Dota which I've been a fan of since Warcraft 3 years. Hope its just a switch to something quick that can be played multiple times in a shorter time span.

I hope they don't screw this up because its a big move for them, but who knows its GW after all...

**Ratius**

Ah yea but realistically BF with overhanging bases (Tyrannofexes guns anyone), one makes exception and gives some leeway though surely?