Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm confused. What exactly is causing people to lose their minds here? Apart from the usual 'characters' doing their comedy routines.

I don't recall seeing anyone 'losing their minds'... just a heap of comments from people about things they like or dislike about what's been revealed so far.

I mean, I like hyperbole as much as the next 14 million people, but let's try to not build drama where it doesn't actually exist, hmm?

Mc1gamer wrote:
In case anyone is interested - rules screen shots - this link is to my YT vid, so fair warning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiXkK1T39HI

Thanks, I guess... but why would you post rules screen shots in a video...?

Confirmation of free rules is very nice indeed. There's certainly no harm in trying it out, and I can simply stick to 8th if I don't like it. I'm also glad it's not technically 9th edition WHFB, and that, allegedly, it should scale up and that it doesn't matter how things are based.

It's a great move by GW from the community's point of view, I hope it pays off for them!

And thanks for sharing the video, Mc1gamer. I'll watch it all but just had a quick skim through... the rules do certainly look nice and streamlined, but I'm not liking the look about that 40k-esque turn sequence. Intrigued about the hero and battleshock phase though!

 insaniak wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm confused. What exactly is causing people to lose their minds here? Apart from the usual 'characters' doing their comedy routines.

I don't recall seeing anyone 'losing their minds'... just a heap of comments from people about things they like or dislike about what's been revealed so far.

I mean, I like hyperbole as much as the next 14 million people, but let's try to not build drama where it doesn't actually exist, hmm?

Mc1gamer wrote:
In case anyone is interested - rules screen shots - this link is to my YT vid, so fair warning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiXkK1T39HI

Thanks, I guess... but why would you post rules screen shots in a video...?

Because I don't have a video of the rule book? LOL

Hey, I have a YT channel, I posts lots of leaks and rumors, and I communicate my mind on those, and have a dialogue with those who follow. Its a hobby, nothing more. Plus a short (or long) video is more effective than a wall of text. If you don't like it, don't click Really, I just put it out there b/c I didn't see the screen shots posted here yet. A quick link was easier since I already created the content.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, is anyone familiar with the fun, but now dead game "Arcane Legions"? I ask because it was actually a very solid, mass-battles game, with some interesting mechanics... and its core rules were a six page document.

I just thought it felt like a relevant example of rules requiring less verbosity than we expect out of modern games, especially when special abilities can be spelled out in greater detail on supplemental materials like unit-cards.

It's certainly possible to create a fun game without a lot of rules. I just think it's going to be a hard slog selling that sort of ruleset to players who liked WHFB precisely because of the complexity. We saw this issue in practice when Epic replaced the old Space Marine game... While Epic was a technically better system (by all acounts) people hated the fact that so much of the detail from the old game had been stripped out.

Launching AoS as a separate, new game is a start, but I can't help but think that this would have been better done as an intro game alongside WHFB rather than killing off the existing property to replace it with a (presumably) vastly simpler game.



But who knows... maybe GW have managed to create an in-depth ruleset with 4 pages of rules and unit cards to flesh out the detail. I just have trouble seeing that as likely from a company whose current philosophy is that our 'hobby' is 'buying Citadel miniatures'...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mc1gamer wrote:
Because I don't have a video of the rule book? LOL

Hey, I have a YT channel, I posts lots of leaks and rumors, and I communicate my mind on those, and have a dialogue with those who follow. Its a hobby, nothing more. Plus a short (or long) video is more effective than a wall of text. If you don't like it, don't click Really, I just put it out there b/c I didn't see the screen shots posted here yet. A quick link was easier since I already created the content.

It's all good. The 'thanks' at the start of my post wasn't entirely sarcastic - Kudos for posting what you have.

Stuff being posted in videos that is more suited to a plain 'ol picture is just a personal bugbear of mine

Mc1gamer wrote:
Plus a short (or long) video is more effective than a wall of text. If you don't like it, don't click

Agh. You're wrong on so many levels! It's incredible!

No worries, I appreciate your point. It was just a rush to share

 insaniak wrote:
Stuff being posted in videos that is more suited to a plain 'ol picture is just a personal bugbear of mine

Agree to infinity. A lot of the time, I can read an article or look at a picture, when I can't watch a video. Wanting everything in youtube form seems to be something for the younger generation, I don't understand it. Get off my lawn etc.

 Pacific wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
Hmm, so I saved £75 for AoS, but then decided not to get it but instead get the rule book.

Now the rule book is fully contained inside a WD????

Guess I have £75 to spend. Hmm....

Get this! Honestly, best game I have played in ages, it's just such a well designed system.

http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/terminator-genisys/products/terminator-genisys-the-war-against-the-machines

I will bet my car, both my arms and legs, the soul of my first-born, that AoS isn't as well designed as that game.

Thank you for the tip! But I only play GW games :-)

Thinking of picking up Neferata Mortarch of Blood as it's such an incredible model.

 Bull0 wrote:

Mc1gamer wrote:
Plus a short (or long) video is more effective than a wall of text. If you don't like it, don't click

Agh. You're wrong on so many levels! It's incredible!

Really? I don't think so. I think its a rather level-headed way of handling things.

The rules look alright I guess, but no new pictures of the models? I was hoping to see some shots of the dude on the lizard, the chaos hero and monster...well, maybe tomorrow. The current images we have are really blurry you can't make out most of the details on the unmasked sigmarite and the spawn/brute of Khorne.

Yeahhh, don't forget Youtube is work blocked for many people.

Not sure if this has been posted already: http://vk.com/thefalseemperor?z=photo-44152964_371325789%2Fwall-44152964_386371

 Bull0 wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Stuff being posted in videos that is more suited to a plain 'ol picture is just a personal bugbear of mine

Agree to infinity. A lot of the time, I can read an article or look at a picture, when I can't watch a video. Wanting everything in youtube form seems to be something for the younger generation, I don't understand it. Get off my lawn etc.

Again, if you don't like it, don't click it. I'm not 'younger generation.' Been playing warhammer since late 80's. I'm just a bit more 'with it' with modern forms of communicating that you. Again, really, no need to get into a tizzy. If you don't like, don't read it, don't watch it, don't click it. Its NOT your lawn, and this last bit was probably a little uneccessary and rude, so has been removed.. -insaniak


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nudibranch wrote:
Yeahhh, don't forget Youtube is work blocked for many people.

Excellent point!!!

Sorry, as I mentioned earlier, it was a rush merely to share. I'll be sure to add links to pics, or attach going forward

OK, folks, the video thing has probably been beaten into the ground quite enough for this thread.

Start a new thread in Discussions if you want to continue down that road

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm confused. What exactly is causing people to lose their minds here? Apart from the usual 'characters' doing their comedy routines.

Probably the "take what you want" idea that would send anyone but a blind fanboy, pewpewing kid or a multiples collector into a state of deep disdain, define the ruleset as an ass wiping material and the company as a complete joke. That it might not be true doesnt change anything, just the hint is enough because the company itself doesnt seem to be bothered with informing the potential player base about all those little things.

I dont care btw, unless it's great I stay with 8th or go Kings of War or sth anyway. It will be fun no matter what, either the game will be good or the fail hilarious.

Sorry to genuinely positive people here but crap post deserves a crap post.

nudibranch wrote:
Yeahhh, don't forget Youtube is work blocked for many people.

I uploaded them, here's the link. I'll be sure to remember that going forward.

http://s326.photobucket.com/user/Mc1gamer/library/Rules%20Leaks%20for%20Age%20of%20Sigmar?sort=3&page=1

I would rather that the game has a full rulebook and then has a relevant and clear rules summary to get the best of both worlds.

Confrontation: Age of Ragnorok has a rulebook that is as large as most Warhammer-level tabletop games out there, and with one trip to the site http://www.orderofgamers.com/, I can download a 3-8page rules summary of the entire ruleset (which includes several other player aids) as well as unit cards that vastly improve the unit cards that came with the models. Each card for a unit has the entire mechanics of their army book entry, with a secondary card for the abilities of the several special fighters a unit can take (Musician, Standard Bearer, etc).

This is the quality of material that Games Workshop should be putting out, which condenses about 50-60 pages of Confrontation rules:

http://www.orderofgamers.com/downloads/Confrontation_v1.1.pdf

The first 14 pages are the entire army book entries as Unit Cards for the Griffin Faction, which include heroes, their personalized wargear as cards, units, and generic wargear that heroes can take as cards, everything after that (the "extras" are actually units that were supposed to be in a what was essentially a later sub-faction rulebook of the same army:

http://www.orderofgamers.com/downloads/Confrontation_Griffin_v1.2.pdf

Imagine a Warhammer 40K or Fantasy game where a unit card has all the stats, points costs, and keyword abilities spelled out, rather than leafing through an army book for anything other than fluff(the only part I use them for).

Is it Visions or White Dwarf that comes with the free mini?

Enjoyed the video, Mc1gamer! I'll be glad to get my hands on zoom-able actual photos but it was a good, quick first overview at the game. Thanks for sharing!

 Eldarain wrote:
Is it Visions or White Dwarf that comes with the free mini?

Going by the picture of the White Dwarf with the mini on the front that's been posted several times so far, I'd guess White Dwarf

 The Shadow wrote:
Enjoyed the video, Mc1gamer! I'll be glad to get my hands on zoom-able actual photos but it was a good, quick first overview at the game. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks and sorry if it wasn't clear. Just a rush to get the info out as soon as it was sent to me. I could barely read it as I was recording lol. I posted a link to the screen shots so you can zoom in on those. I'l be sure to include that or just go that route in the future. Cheers!

 Eldarain wrote:
Is it Visions or White Dwarf that comes with the free mini?

From the photograph on twitter it looks like its next saturday's white dwarf which has the free mini. Might be the first time I buy white dwarf in about 10 years.... Last free mini white dwarf I bought was necromunda! Free orlock or goliath mini. That's going back some....

Yeah, a free mini in WD is nostalgic, surprising and brilliant at the same time. A WD these days is what, £2.50? Considering GW charge up to £16 for a single standard-base model, that's a damn cheap model that I'll probably just get for the hell of it.

Yeah, as much as the rules release might seem a bit underwhelming, £2.50 for a free mini and what amounts to a hard copy of the 'rulebook' by the look of it is hard to knock. Even if the rules aren't you're go-to game, I can see them being a great tool for gently breaking in those new to wargaming in general before moving to deeper stuff, or fitting in quick games during lunch breaks or run a series of games in a single session.

 The Shadow wrote:
Yeah, a free mini in WD is nostalgic, surprising and brilliant at the same time. A WD these days is what, £2.50? Considering GW charge up to £16 for a single standard-base model, that's a damn cheap model that I'll probably just get for the hell of it.

The free mini in the WD coupled with the rumored free rules for, well, everything suggest that GW might be playing it pretty smart with this release, and not banking on people purchasing it just because it's made by them. So that is a hopeful sign.

OK,....this sucks so hard....I'm having trouble typing, hands shaking....

Just spent an hour and a half on the phone with GW, them trying in vain to make me understand how I can play the game, let alone how i could make someone want to buy it.

It has no points, no system to balance armies, nothing whatsoever tells the two players what they can put on the table.

Just play with what you want to play with.

I'm having trouble with the idea of two 12 year olds opening up figure cases and playing a game....let alone running a league, or a tournament.

I argued and asked for any reason they didn't have a points system. They just kept telling me it doesn't have one, doesn't need one, the game has things that give the player with least models an advantage, or why one dragon gets killed by a unit. It was like talking with people that don't play the game. Have never played the game. Only played the scenarios in AoS.

With the vast difference in profile between models in Warhammer, it's absurd to think you can balance by model count.

And you can't balance by Warscroll, this is just multiple models which can have hugely different numbers and stats.

And you can't balance by wounds. Chaos Warrior = 1 goblin? Nagash = 10 goblins?

In fact, Nagash or a large dragon or blood thirster is aways optimal. Warscrolls =1, Model count =1, Wounds < 10.

Because of the huge difference in power of the playing pieces, nothing makes sense unless you balance by a number that reflects the value of the individual piece in the game.

AoS is essentially Unbound armies where you bring what you want. You aren't even restricted by faction, you just might have models that don't gain a bonus others might from an icon or leader.

I've actually been in tears today over what they did to WFB. I have no idea how I will sell this game in my shop other than an expensive boardgame.

 insaniak wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Is it Visions or White Dwarf that comes with the free mini?

Going by the picture of the White Dwarf with the mini on the front that's been posted several times so far, I'd guess White Dwarf

Gotcha. I thought Visions was the one with the title along the spine not across the top so thought I'd check.

Very bizarre indeed. Thanks for sharing. Balancing by model count obviously won't work unless they're going to homogenize the model range a *lot*. Be interesting to see what comes out of the rules release at the weekend but if this is true, I'm highly skeptical there'll be a decent game at the end of it.

 mikhaila wrote:

Spoiler:

OK,....this sucks so hard....I'm having trouble typing, hands shaking....

Just spent an hour and a half on the phone with GW, them trying in vain to make me understand how I can play the game, let alone how i could make someone want to buy it.

It has no points, no system to balance armies, nothing whatsoever tells the two players what they can put on the table.

Just play with what you want to play with.

I'm having trouble with the idea of two 12 year olds opening up figure cases and playing a game....let alone running a league, or a tournament.

I argued and asked for any reason they didn't have a points system. They just kept telling me it doesn't have one, doesn't need one, the game has things that give the player with least models an advantage, or why one dragon gets killed by a unit. It was like talking with people that don't play the game. Have never played the game. Only played the scenarios in AoS.

With the vast difference in profile between models in Warhammer, it's absurd to think you can balance by model count.

And you can't balance by Warscroll, this is just multiple models which can have hugely different numbers and stats.

And you can't balance by wounds. Chaos Warrior = 1 goblin? Nagash = 10 goblins?

In fact, Nagash or a large dragon or blood thirster is aways optimal. Warscrolls =1, Model count =1, Wounds < 10.

Because of the huge difference in power of the playing pieces, nothing makes sense unless you balance by a number that reflects the value of the individual piece in the game.

AoS is essentially Unbound armies where you bring what you want. You aren't even restricted by faction, you just might have models that don't gain a bonus others might from an icon or leader.

I've actually been in tears today over what they did to WFB. I have no idea how I will sell this game in my shop other than an expensive boardgame.

That really sucks, Mikhaila. Hope you feel better soon

 mikhaila wrote:
OK,....this sucks so hard....I'm having trouble typing, hands shaking....

Just spent an hour and a half on the phone with GW, them trying in vain to make me understand how I can play the game, let alone how i could make someone want to buy it.

It has no points, no system to balance armies, nothing whatsoever tells the two players what they can put on the table.
....
I've actually been in tears today over what they did to WFB. I have no idea how I will sell this game in my shop other than an expensive boardgame.

Awesome...just awesome.