adamsouza wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
[
Do you think they'd be releasing rules for free if they were going to sell them later on?

Yes. They are only giving us a 4 page PDF of rules, and army stats for existing models to get you interested enough in playing, so that when the Hardcover Rulebook comes along your laready invested enough in the game to want to buy the rulebook..

 Shigematsu wrote:
Also does everyone who takes these photographs not know how to take a clear photograph from head on, it isnt rocket science. This seems to have been the case as far as I can remember.

 Shigematsu wrote:
Also do people really think that theyre reaaaaally going to give up the opportunity to sell a rulebook at 70$+? As well as selling out the inevitable collectors edition?

nudibranch wrote:
I am incredibly skeptical about this. Are you certain they were not just talking about the new boxed set? GW have made some strange moves lately, but this sounds absurd even for them.

 mikhaila wrote:

And you can't balance by wounds. Chaos Warrior = 1 goblin? Nagash = 10 goblins?

In fact, Nagash or a large dragon or blood thirster is aways optimal. Warscrolls =1, Model count =1, Wounds < 10.

 pretre wrote:
Also, I imagine if there are really no points, some group will come along to assign points to each scroll. Think of the balance! We could actually have balanced armies if GW isn't assigning the points.

 Red Viper wrote:


I don't doubt what they're telling you, but I don't think that's the full story either. Or else their own starter set is imbalanced (I know I know, it always is... but not in favor of the bad guys!). Their number of models per side aren't equal in the starter set, but the number of different units appear to be.

Going by the starter, I think the following are each one Warscroll:
5 hammer and shield sigmarines
5 hammer and shield sigmarines
3 greathammer sigmarines
3 angels
1 Hero on reptilecat
1 BsB

So 6 assumed Warscrolls, but 18 dudes.

Chaos has
10 Marauders
10 Marauders
5 Warriors/Chosen
1 Beast and handler
1 Hero with Hound
1 Bs/icon bearer

6 assumed Warscrolls, but 29 dudes.

So, I don't think 10 night goblins will equal 10 chaos warriors. The warscrolls likely have a number of models. What if 5 warriors = 10 Marauders = 20 night goblins? Start making more sense?

Look, I have no idea if I'm right. But I think this is way more likely than what you seem to be suggesting.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The owner of my LGS is also cutting back on his order, unless they get info that satisfy him. Hopefully, this will become a trend and force GW to be, at a minimum, more open with their release schedule, or completely rewrite the rules of the game to at least include a way to balance armies.

 agnosto wrote:
Mik owns 2 good sized shops, I believe, and turns over a great deal of merch for GW I'm sure. It makes complete sense to jeopardize that by feeding him false information about the existence of some larger rulebook coming in the next month or so.

Kirby himself could step in front of a camera and literally say, "this is it." and some people would still make excuses.

Merely pointing out GW reps are not a good source of information even on the product releasing this week, much less anything down the line.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
The only consolation I have in all this is that at least Warhammer: Total War will keep the Warhammer World alive, even as GW does its very best to tear it completely down.

Tank_Dweller wrote:
I really think GW may have cocked up... judging by various reactions to the closed door E3 demo... that game is going to sell like nobodies business. All the potential new customers being sold a gaming universe that doesn't exist anymore. The mind boggles

 agnosto wrote:
I'm not doubting you because I simply don't know but that's a terrible way to run a retail business. If you've ever been in sales or marketing, you know that you don't damage lucrative sales relationships by lying. If you don't know, fine, but you never lie to a paying customer and expect them to carry your merchandise...no no no..

 mikhaila wrote:
I and other retailers are spending a lot of time on the phone with GW today.

First getting the basic info on the game, how it plays, etc. Then being told the incentives GW is giving us to carry the game, and take a big load of them. I ordered the 80 copies they wanted to me to get, so did a nearby store. That's 10,000.00 of product, 5500.00 our cost, non - returnable. A large commitment to the game.

Spoiler:

Then we hear about no points values. We realize we don't know how to run tournaments, or leagues, or even tell two 12 year olds how to start a game.

"Just put out what models you want to play with"

And we've all argued with sales reps and people in management, and the message is all the same: No points, this is the rules, this is it, nothing else.

Maybe they are lying about something else on the way? I can't hold out hope for that. Not on 5500.00 and all the time and effort to commit to painting demo armies, training staff, and organizing events. At the expense of doing the same for other games. So many of us will drastically cut orders down to pre-paid pre orders and a copy for the shelf. If they do have more coming, well, i'll wait until i see it.

 insaniak wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I'm not doubting you because I simply don't know but that's a terrible way to run a retail business. If you've ever been in sales or marketing, you know that you don't damage lucrative sales relationships by lying. If you don't know, fine, but you never lie to a paying customer and expect them to carry your merchandise...no no no..

The thing is, we've seen in the past that GW have no issue with doing just that. The 'No, no, it's definitely not Space Hulk' lead-up to the Space Hulk release being the first example that springs to mind.

So it's not entirely out of the question. But given the way this game is shaping up, I would be surprised if a 'rulebook' release later on was anything more than a compilation of the starter set rules and the Warscrolls released up to that point.
D

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Spoiler:

I and other retailers are spending a lot of time on the phone with GW today.

First getting the basic info on the game, how it plays, etc. Then being told the incentives GW is giving us to carry the game, and take a big load of them. I ordered the 80 copies they wanted to me to get, so did a nearby store. That's 10,000.00 of product, 5500.00 our cost, non - returnable. A large commitment to the game.

[spoiler]Then we hear about no points values. We realize we don't know how to run tournaments, or leagues, or even tell two 12 year olds how to start a game.

"Just put out what models you want to play with"

And we've all argued with sales reps and people in management, and the message is all the same: No points, this is the rules, this is it, nothing else.

Maybe they are lying about something else on the way? I can't hold out hope for that. Not on 5500.00 and all the time and effort to commit to painting demo armies, training staff, and organizing events. At the expense of doing the same for other games. So many of us will drastically cut orders down to pre-paid pre orders and a copy for the shelf. If they do have more coming, well, i'll wait until i see it.

Mikhaila Mikhaila You are doing it wrong you just have to forge a narrative

So what i read of the last few pages is that it is trying to be the age of X-wing but without point values, And don't worry the GW customers will buy what we make Kirby said so it will be as successful as Dreadfleet!

nudibranch wrote:
At least it really is a 'bear and pretzels' game now, I guess?

Ok so I just spoke with our GW guy for about a half an hour about Age of Sigmar. Here are the details:

+All the rules are free, core, unit specific, everything- The core rules are very simple but the complexity comes with each unit getting its own individual "Warscroll." The warscrolls will detail what each unit can do, its stats, etc. All the warscrolls and the core rules will be made available for free download starting on July 4th.

+The game can be played with all existing models in the warhammer fantasy range. There is no strict force organization chart. You could make an unbound army but there are benefits for taking units of the same faction. There is increased synergy and interplay between units of the same faction (Chaos, Elves, etc).

+ There is a lot more synergy in general in the game. The Khorne banner guy you see in the pictures has the ability to plant his banner in the ground and create a warp rift where every Khorne unit within 12 inches of the banner gets all sorts of nasty benefits.

+The starter box is 100 bucks after discount at TJs. It comes with 47 new models, 96 page Age of Sigmar Book, dice, measuring sticks etc. It comes with two armies Warriors of Khorne and a new army (Stormcast Eternals). He said the pictures floating around don't really do them justice and that they were the best quality plasics he has ever seen (he got the chance to construct, paint, and play with them last week). That sounds like a sweet week at work! smile emoticon

+The Stormcast Eternals are warriors of the warhammer world that Sigmar saved before the destruction of the mortal realm. They are then reincarnated as demigods keeping some of their previous personality. Every time they die, he resurrects them and they lose a bit of their individuality of their first life. This will explain how we will see heroes and villains that were important figures in the Warhammer World before hand. Apparently the guy riding the drake is one of the previous characters but his identify isn't revealed yet.

+There will be a bunch of new armies coming from the 9 realms of the game world. Some of the realms are familiar (Death, Beasts, Chaos, Heavens, etc). Each realm will have familiar armies coming from it, as well as new ones (like the Stormcast Eternals). I am guessing my beloved Greenskins are in the Beasts realm!

+The white dwarf next week comes with a new Stormcast Eternal Mini.

+The game while having skirmish elements is not just a skirmish game. Large scale battles are completely doable and actually will have a lot more interplay and intricacies due to the layers of synergy with the individual warscrolls for all the units.

+Bases don't matter. Measuring is done model to model (center mass I imagine). Bases are purely for aesthetics.

+He made a comparison to X-Wing where the core rules are simple and fun but the unit specific rules are where the game really comes to life.

+Premeasuring is still alive and well.

+There are fluffy faction specific rules that make armies play how you would imagine. He used an example of how Khorne units have the ability to take a death blow. When a khorne model dies they can get a last gasp strike as they fall.

+He said the game plays faster than WHFB, is simple at its core, but complex once you start throwing in all the unit specific rules. He said it would be much easier for new players to get into the hobby and the themed armies have really cool things up their sleeves.

All in all I am really excited. Putting all the rules out there for free, making any regiment box in effect a starter box, and keeping large scale battles relevant are smart moves. I cannot wait. More details to follow! Everyone will be able to start playing AoS on the fourth of july without spending a penny.