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 Hulksmash wrote:


Honestly, the game play looks like it would be solid, fun, and fast. It's only the lack of a balancing mechanism that fails it. It'd be great with friends who plan games and horrible outside of any specific group

Really?

Game looks like garbage, even with points. Units stuck in combat can still shoot in the shooting phase, possible at something other than the unit they are fighting. Other units can shoot into CC. Distances measured from any-little-something on the model ignoring any and all bases (modelling-for-advantage-for-the-win). Auto-lock in CC if you come within 3" of some speartip by the enemy. Etc.., etc..

Static to-hit and to-wound stats are awesome too. A Blood Warrior fighting a Skeleton? Hit on 3+, wound on 4+. A Blood Warrior fighting Phoenix Guard? Hit on 3+, wound on 4+. A Blood Warrior fighting Glottkin? Hit on 3+, wound on 4+. Yeah!!

 Desubot wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Has anyone considered that this is specific to the starter set?

That would be the reasonable explanation. We don't know if GW knows that.

Actually thinking about it, DV didnt have any points costs as well.

Its entirely possible this is only for the box set and that eventually when other boxes for the individuals inside get released there will be points.

BUUUUUUT we have a heaping pile of we dont know. :/

Then the rulebook would mention points cost... instead, it says just put down models until you feel like stopping or you run out.

I'm betting there is a big book in the works.. just not ready yet so they're not saying anything. maybe not a ginormous-bible like the previous ones but I could see them doing something along the lines of apocalypse rules for playing big battles or something like that.

 Hulksmash wrote:
It'd be great with friends who plan games and horrible outside of any specific group

This is quickly becoming something that should be the sub-title to all GW releases.

Frankly, Swedish comp could be rebuilt to point WHAOS games out, shooting for a 10-14 band for events (or whatever range is preferred), as it was developed pretty much ignoring armybook points values and replacing them with its own system of costs based on in-game performance. It'll take some time to calibrate, and won't work as well in unbound situations, but I'd warrant any competitive event won't be unbound

- Salvage

 Desubot wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Has anyone considered that this is specific to the starter set?

That would be the reasonable explanation. We don't know if GW knows that.

Actually thinking about it, DV didnt have any points costs as well.

Its entirely possible this is only for the box set and that eventually when other boxes for the individuals inside get released there will be points.

BUUUUUUT we have a heaping pile of we dont know. :/

That makes sense and is very GW-ish.. it keeps you from being able to play the actual game without buying the overpriced army books and restricts you to the dumbed down starter game.

Bwahahahaha, I think Tom Kirby took a page out of George RR Martin's book when it comes to torturing fans

So.. this is SO FREAKING CLOSE.
Add nicely balanced point costs.

Btw those setup rules..
DO WHATEVER YOU WANT 12" away from the enemy.. first turn combat. WHAT THE HELL.

I'm fairly certain that it's not the end of the release cycle for AoS. However, if there's no proper "advanced" rulebook that includes balanced army building rules within the next two-four weeks, I guess we can mark this one down as a stillborn.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
So close.....GW was so close...

It's kind of interesting... I assumed the new Warhammer would be bad, as that's the direction GW has been headed in for many years now. However, I am absolutely blown away by how astoundingly bad Warhammer AoS actually is. GW exceeded my expectations entirely. The game is obviously designed as an afterthought to the miniatures. It's literally "put your favorite Citadel miniatures on the table"... quite literally. From any army, as many models as you want.

What specific problems do you have with the ruleset apart from the lack of points? Haven't had time to read it yet.

Fans are otiose.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
Has anyone considered that this is specific to the starter set?

That would be the reasonable explanation. We don't know if GW knows that.

Actually thinking about it, DV didnt have any points costs as well.

Its entirely possible this is only for the box set and that eventually when other boxes for the individuals inside get released there will be points.

BUUUUUUT we have a heaping pile of we dont know. :/

Then the rulebook would mention points cost... instead, it says just put down models until you feel like stopping or you run out.

This is only true if GW wants us to have to buy an actual rulebook instead of using the starter one. If the starter one isn't suitable for actual games of the new edition and only as a overview. IMO, 4 pages of rules + dumbed down unit entries.. we're looking at a pared down starter box meant to drive post starter sales.

Lord-Relictor

Description - A Lord-Relictor is a single model. He is armed with a Relic Hammer.

Lightning Storm - In your hero phase you can declare that the Lord-Relictor will pray for a lightning storm. If you do so, pick an enemy unit what is within 12" of this model and roll a dice. On a roll of 3 or more then unit your picked suffers D3 mortal wounds and your opponent must subtract 1 from all hit rolls for the unit until your next hero phase. A Lord-Relictor cannot pray for a lightning storm and a healing storm in the same turn.

Healing storm - In your hero phase, you can declare that this model is praying for a healing storm. If you do so, pick a friendly model with the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword that is within 12" of this model and roll a dice. On a roll of 3 or more ou can heal up to D3? wounds that have been suffered by the model that you picked. A lord-relictor cannot pray for a Healing Storm and a Lightning Storm in the same turn.

Keywords: Order, Celestial, Human, Stormcaller Eternal, Hero, Priest, Lord-Relictor


Edited to add description and keywords

Oh, "keywords"
Thats definately something from GOOD rulesets

It looks really neat. Apart from, you know, the no points thing. Nice and clean, also amazing models all around, especially the Khorne Chosen.

Lord-Celestant

Description - A Lord-Celestant is a single model. He is armed with a Tempestuous Hammer and rides a Draktoh. The Drakoth fights with its __ Claws and Fangs.

Inescapable Vengence = If this model made a charge move this turn, it also makes D3? extra attacks with its T? Hammer.

Indescribable Damage - If the wound roll for the Drakoth's Claws and Fangs attack is 4 or more, then the attack has a Damage characteristic of d6 rather than 1.

Storm Breath - You can make a storm breath attack with this model in your shooting phase. To do so, pick a point on the battlefield that is within 12" of this model. Roll a dice for each unit (friend or foe) that is within 2" of the point that you picked. On a roll of 4 or more, that unit being rolled for suffers D3 mortal wounds.

Command Ability: Lord of the ? - If this model is your general and uses this ability, until your next hero phase you do not have to make a battleshock test for this model or any friendly unit with the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword that is within 24" of this model at the start of the battleshock phase.

Keywords: Order, Celestial, Human, Stormcaller Eternal, Hero, Lord-Celestant


Edited to add description and keywords.

RoninXiC wrote:
DO WHATEVER YOU WANT 12" away from the enemy.. first turn combat. WHAT THE HELL.

Only if you pop those box cars for your charge. Haven't seen anything the speeds that up ... yet.*

Also, just noticed the angel marines can throw their hammers as well as beat with them. Nice.

- Salvage

*I'm dumb. As expected, angel marines can stride swiftly, as well as max out their charge at 18"

RoninXiC wrote:
So.. this is SO FREAKING CLOSE.
Add nicely balanced point costs.

Btw those setup rules..
DO WHATEVER YOU WANT 12" away from the enemy.. first turn combat. WHAT THE HELL.

Well, no, you set up 12" from the border between the territories... So the distance between any two units will be 24".

Wonderwolf wrote:

Game looks like garbage, even with points. Units stuck in combat can still shoot in the shooting phase, possible at something other than the unit they are fighting. Other units can shoot into CC. Distances measured from any-little-something on the model ignoring any and all bases (modelling-for-advantage-for-the-win). Auto-lock in CC if you come within 3" of some speartip by the enemy. Etc.., etc..

I think the shooting thing is very intentional. Also, how would you move within 3" of something and get locked in? You can't move within 3" if you're not charging.

 streamdragon wrote:
Storm Breath - You can make a storm breath attack with this model in your shooting phase. To do so, pick a point on the battlefield that is within 12" of this model. Roll a dice for each unit (friend or foe) that is within 2" of the point that you picked. On a roll of 4 or more, that unit being rolled for suffers D3 mortal wounds.

Whoa, did I just realize there are no templates in this edition? No templates or points?? *hides in corner, clutching 40k 3E grey plastic flame template and his handy calculator*

- Salvage

Prosecutors

Description - A unit of Prosecutors can have any number of models. They are armed with Celestial Hammers. Celestial Hammers can be used as either a missile weapon or a melee weapon and can be used as both in the same turn.

Prosecutor Prime - The leader of this unit is the Prosecutor Prime. A Prosecutor Prime makes 3 melee attacks rather than 2 when he uses his Celestial Hammer as a melee weapon.

Fly - Prosecutors can fly.

Heralds of Righteousness - Roll 3 dice instead of 2 dice when determining the charge move for this unit. In addition, you can declare a charge with this unit if it is within 18" of the enemy rather than 12".

Celestial Hammers - You can reroll hit rolls of 1 for models from this unit.

Keywords: Order, Celestial, Human, Stormcast Eternal, Prosecutors

Mymearan wrote:
What specific problems do you have with the ruleset apart from the lack of points? Haven't had time to read it yet.

Wonderwolf has covered most of my dislikes so far

Wonderwolf wrote:
Game looks like garbage, even with points. Units stuck in combat can still shoot in the shooting phase, possible at something other than the unit they are fighting. Other units can shoot into CC. Distances measured from any-little-something on the model ignoring any and all bases (modelling-for-advantage-for-the-win). Auto-lock in CC if you come within 3" of some speartip by the enemy. Etc.., etc..

You know, the balance thing can be easily fixed:

- No more than X Warscrolls allowed (varies depending on game size)
- No more than Y Warscrolls can have the Hero, Monster, etc. keyword
- Warscrolls with more than 10 models counts as an additional warscroll for every 10 models above 10.

Boom.

 pretre wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

Game looks like garbage, even with points. Units stuck in combat can still shoot in the shooting phase, possible at something other than the unit they are fighting. Other units can shoot into CC. Distances measured from any-little-something on the model ignoring any and all bases (modelling-for-advantage-for-the-win). Auto-lock in CC if you come within 3" of some speartip by the enemy. Etc.., etc..

I think the shooting thing is very intentional. Also, how would you move within 3" of something and get locked in? You can't move within 3" if you're not charging.

Fair enough with the 3". But the shooting bugs me (maybe it's the 40K conditioning).

So that Archer is face-to-face with a crazed Khorne Berzerker Blood Warrior, but quietly takes his bow, shoots an arrow at the Bloodletters over yonder, before getting back to fighting the Blood Warrior?

And yea, fixed to-hit/to-wound. I get that it is simple, but the same guy hitting/wounding a rotten skelly and the Avatar of Khaine himself with equal easy/difficulty in a sword-fight isn't doing much for suspension of disbelief.

You can read it all easily here if you click the zoom icon

http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/boss_salvage/media/scan0005_Page_2_zpsywd1mamu.jpg.html

 lord_blackfang wrote:
You can read it all easily here if you click the zoom icon

http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/boss_salvage/media/scan0005_Page_2_zpsywd1mamu.jpg.html

oh god thank you that was starting to seriously hurt my eyes.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Fair enough with the 3". But the shooting bugs me (maybe it's the 40K conditioning).

So that Archer is face-to-face with a crazed Khorne Berzerker Blood Warrior, but quietly takes his Bow, shoots an arrow at the Bloodletters over yonder, before getting back to fighting the Blood Warrior?

On the other hand, if there's a bunch of khorne dudes right in front of you, you're gonna shoot them with your bows before getting cut down and keep shooting until you are.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
You know, the balance thing can be easily fixed:

- No more than X Warscrolls allowed (varies depending on game size)
- No more than Y Warscrolls can have the Hero, Monster, etc. keyword
- Warscrolls with more than 10 models counts as an additional warscroll for every 10 models above 10.

Boom.

exactly. GW provide something that we can make rule around.

Why try and make it good, and still comped, if you can just make a blank canvas, and let people decide how they wanna comp it.

"comp"?
Make it functional. MAKE IT WORK?!

Enkiel wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
You know, the balance thing can be easily fixed:

- No more than X Warscrolls allowed (varies depending on game size)
- No more than Y Warscrolls can have the Hero, Monster, etc. keyword
- Warscrolls with more than 10 models counts as an additional warscroll for every 10 models above 10.

Boom.

exactly. GW provide something that we can make rule around.

Why try and make it good, and still comped, if you can just make a blank canvas, and let people decide how they wanna comp it.

I think the Swedish thing mentioned a bit back is probably most likely.