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@Kanluwen @Vain:

To be fair I should have offered some context. I am a regular, have been for 10+ years. But it was a relatively new member of staff and the manager was on his day off. But surely give the customer something to try and build some anticipation?

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
But surely give the customer something to try and build some anticipation?

It is not the GW way. GW didn't get to where it is today by making people aware of their products, you know!

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
@Kanluwen @Vain:

To be fair I should have offered some context. I am a regular, have been for 10+ years. But it was a relatively new member of staff and the manager was on his day off. But surely give the customer something to try and build some anticipation?

New member of staff that knows you fairly well or not well?

If it had been the regular manager, I'm sure you might have gotten some conversation but in any case--the "something to try and build some anticipation" might be something that the new member of staff hasn't actually been brought in on yet.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
@Kanluwen @Vain:

To be fair I should have offered some context. I am a regular, have been for 10+ years. But it was a relatively new member of staff and the manager was on his day off. But surely give the customer something to try and build some anticipation?

New member of staff that knows you fairly well or not well?

If it had been the regular manager, I'm sure you might have gotten some conversation but in any case--the "something to try and build some anticipation" might be something that the new member of staff hasn't actually been brought in on yet.

Hiring for attitude and not skills folks!

Depends who you play against.

If you play someone with an Unbound list of just Wraithknights, Riptides and Heldrakes (which I have never seen) of course you won't have fun. But I doubt they'll have much fun either.

Try playing Unbound as an excuse to make a fluffy or fun list that is otherwise impossible with the Force Organisation chart.

Besides, it is widely agreed that armies made up of the new Codex specific detachments and formations have far more beardy potential than any Unbound army.

What does this have to do with Age of Sigmar? Point is people thought Unbound was going to make the game unplayable. Of course they all had years experience and could tell just by reading the rules, they didn't need to play any games to be so sure of themselves.

If you honestly think GW have been disappointing in their games designs for the last decade then why are you even here? Because some small part of you hopes that you are wrong and that this game will be awesome like all the others before it.

So as amusing as it is to read the doomsday posts and as much fun as I will have reminding you of whats been said after you're still posting months after release, please try not to be so negative.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
@Kanluwen @Vain:

To be fair I should have offered some context. I am a regular, have been for 10+ years. But it was a relatively new member of staff and the manager was on his day off. But surely give the customer something to try and build some anticipation?

New member of staff that knows you fairly well or not well?

If it had been the regular manager, I'm sure you might have gotten some conversation but in any case--the "something to try and build some anticipation" might be something that the new member of staff hasn't actually been brought in on yet.

Hiring for attitude and not skills folks!

I'm sure that a "skilled" salesperson doesn't need a job working at a GW shop.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Depends who you play against.

If you play someone with an Unbound list of just Wraithknights, Riptides and Heldrakes (which I have never seen) of course you won't have fun. But I doubt they'll have much fun either.

Try playing Unbound as an excuse to make a fluffy or fun list that is otherwise impossible with the Force Organisation chart.

Besides, it is widely agreed that armies made up of the new Codex specific detachments and formations have far more beardy potential than any Unbound army.

What does this have to do with Age of Sigmar? Point is people thought Unbound was going to make the game unplayable. Of course they all had years experience and could tell just by reading the rules, they didn't need to play any games to be so sure of themselves.

But if no one actually plays unbound then that kind of indicates that those people were right, doesn't it?

Triple the salary and the skilled salesperson would probably not take it.

That said he was a young lad, or at least younger than me, so was probably towing the company line to the letter. I think it just threw me, hey maybe he legitimately knew nothing?

That said this release may well be the last roll of the dice for Fantasy. If so, and contrary to my beliefs because of what we currently know, I hope that AOS succeeds.

Their argument was that Unbound would destroy the game, not that no one would play Unbound.

Unless we're being completely lied to, this game has no points system or any other way of deciding whether two armies are equal. That's way worse than unbound.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Their argument was that Unbound would destroy the game, not that no one would play Unbound.

If no one plays unbound because they do not like it, and instead of taking note of that and making your next game more to the taste of your actual paying customers, double down and remove all options but unbound, what effect do you think that will have?

 XT-1984 wrote:


Besides, it is widely agreed that armies made up of the new Codex specific detachments and formations have far more beardy potential than any Unbound army.

Two wrongs don't make a right. The fact that bound detachments and multisource forces are broken doesn't excuse broken unbound armies either. They're both legal and they're both horrible ideas that don't excuse each other.

Well with a name like Warboss I would guess you are an Ork player? If so you're right in one respect, every other factions detachments are broken compared to Orks.

My point is I am still of the opinion that we have not seen the bigger picture yet.

Orks have detachments/formations, right? Just not an overarching Decurion.

I'm going to give this whole thing a chance this Saturday. My FLGS is going to run a demo and print out all the warsrolls for us to try out. I'm going and am going to give it a fair shake, but I'm honestly not excited at all about it.

The new terrain piece is pretty sweet though!

Yeah Orks do but they are kinda bad. But I guess Orks were never meant to be the 'go to' competitive army. They've always epitomised the 'fun and random' aspect of the game.

When GW introduced allies and unbound they weren't looking at the tournament gamer. Say what you will merits and issues you have about this decision, but GW decided to focus their efforts elsewhere. I started playing 40k in 5th edition, and the group of people I was playing with already allowed both unbound and allies before the rules supported it. It was never about spamming or exploiting it was about saying, I want to try some different guys this game to see if I like them. Allies were mostly used to bolster a force to allow larger games. So when GW introduced these concepts with official rules I kind of liked their 'play it your way' approach.

It looks like they are doing the same thing with AoS but to another extreme. They don't want players to say, "that model is cool, but I don't collect that army so I wont buy it." If this is how they decided they are going to save the fantasy line then so be it. Established players have a right to be butt hurt, but they also have to realize that it was change or bust.

I think the game will end up failing if they do not introduce some kind of balancing mechanic but I'm sure there is a balancing mechanic in the works. My prediction is that GW decided it wasn't worth the man-hours to try to balance all 400 warscrolls they are unveiling for free, and instead we will see a balancing mechanic in an expensive supplement later.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Well with a name like Warboss I would guess you are an Ork player? If so you're right in one respect, every other factions detachments are broken compared to Orks.

My point is I am still of the opinion that we have not seen the bigger picture yet.

We probably haven't seen the bigger picture but frankly the general trend with GW is that the bigger picture tends to usually be worse. It went from escalation optional and allies to armies of nothing but superheavies and no faction or codex restrictions to just buy more stuff and we'll let you play it completely free in game as long as you spend dollars. As for what I play, I used to play orks and they were my favorite army in 3rd edition as I simply had the most fun with them (but not the best W/L). I currently have tau, IG, blood angels, dark angels, and eldar so pigeon holeing me into one category won't work. I simply don't like the tripling down of stupid that GW's design team has been doing and I see the same theme taking to the next level with AOS.

 warboss wrote:

 XT-1984 wrote:
Well with a name like Warboss I would guess you are an Ork player? If so you're right in one respect, every other factions detachments are broken compared to Orks.

My point is I am still of the opinion that we have not seen the bigger picture yet.

We probably haven't seen the bigger picture but frankly the general trend with GW is that the bigger picture tends to usually be worse. It went from escalation optional and allies to armies of nothing but superheavies and no faction or codex restrictions to just buy more stuff and we'll let you play it completely free in game as long as you spend dollars. As for what I play, I used to play orks and they were my favorite army in 3rd edition as I simply had the most fun with them (but not the best W/L). I currently have tau, IG, blood angels, dark angels, and eldar so pigeon holeing me into one category won't work. I simply don't like the tripling down of stupid that GW's design team has been doing and I see the same theme taking to the next level with AOS.

Sorry, I'm not seeing where super-heavies come in to Adeptus Astartes books. Everyone else and their mum has super-heavies with exception to Sisters of Battle and Adeptus Astartes lol.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Nicked off twitter:

I like this model and can easily see him being used in a Khorne Daemonkin army as a Daemon Prince or a Chaos Spawn, depending on the size.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:

These will sell like hotcakes. Of course they'll only be used as Khorne Berserkers.

Get rid of the skull necklace and the standard bearer is rather spiffy.

I wanna see more warscrolls. We still have no idea how footslogging heroes interact with other units. If they don't at all it's going to be so easy to snipe them so I am interested to see how it will work!

 Ghaz wrote:

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Nicked off twitter:

I like this model and can easily see him being used in a Khorne Daemonkin army as a Daemon Prince or a Chaos Spawn, depending on the size.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:

These will sell like hotcakes. Of course they'll only be used as Khorne Berserkers.

a few bolt pistols plasma pistol, and powerpacks later and the hotest looking world eaters in a long time

Are the Not-Khorne Berserkers there Chosen then?

have we seen enough to posit that Age of Sigmar's model line is going to at a much larger scale than previous editions?

A not so subtle move to encourage moving to the new minis. In the same way they did the 40k Terminator update.

Weren't the End Times Nurgle, Khorne and Skaven minis larger than normal?

 Eldarain wrote:
have we seen enough to posit that Age of Sigmar's model line is going to at a much larger scale than previous editions?

A not so subtle move to encourage moving to the new minis. In the same way they did the 40k Terminator update.

Weren't the End Times Nurgle, Khorne and Skaven minis larger than normal?

Yeah the Skullreapers/Blightkings were on pretty big square bases. Don't know about the Stormfiends though.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Depends who you play against.

If you play someone with an Unbound list of just Wraithknights, Riptides and Heldrakes (which I have never seen) of course you won't have fun. But I doubt they'll have much fun either.

Try playing Unbound as an excuse to make a fluffy or fun list that is otherwise impossible with the Force Organisation chart.

Besides, it is widely agreed that armies made up of the new Codex specific detachments and formations have far more beardy potential than any Unbound army.

What does this have to do with Age of Sigmar? Point is people thought Unbound was going to make the game unplayable. Of course they all had years experience and could tell just by reading the rules, they didn't need to play any games to be so sure of themselves.

If you honestly think GW have been disappointing in their games designs for the last decade then why are you even here? Because some small part of you hopes that you are wrong and that this game will be awesome like all the others before it.

So as amusing as it is to read the doomsday posts and as much fun as I will have reminding you of whats been said after you're still posting months after release, please try not to be so negative.

I can choose not to play against Unbound armies because Bound is a thing that exists, indeed that's what most people choose to do. AoS doesn't give people that choice, it's all Unbound, all the time - if you genuinely can't see why that's an issue...

Actually we don't know if that is the case yet Yodhrin.

Considering the way 40k had Escalation forced into the main game, I don't doubt that WH-AOS will be the equivalent of Warhammer: Sigmar's All-Stars. As long as you buy some fantasy models, I think GW will consider it a success.

Another new image, the rear cover of WD, more new terrain at the rear?