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Da Butcha wrote:
I can believe the reasoned post about abandoning the current market of WFB and trying to create a new market of buyers for AOS, except for one thing:

GW is pushing the old WFB IP with Mordheim, Vermintide, Total War, etc. games.

That doesn't disprove it, but it makes me scratch my head.

The reason for that is likely those licensing deals were struck before AOS became what it ultimately did. It takes more years to make a videogame than it does a tabletop one in general (cheap mobile cash ins excluded). What will be telling is if 3-5 years from now new ones conti ue to get announced (beyond sequels of course like total warhammer 2).

 Talys wrote:
On the bright/dark side, it means GW is probably going to make more snapfit models. Again, not really my thing, but a lot of people prefer them to multipart plastic, because they are just easier to build. It appeals to a different niche of modeler/painter (than me).

I enjoy building models, but sometimes I prefer snapfit. Nothing irks me more than wondering aloud to myself "but why did they give me this model in 14 pieces if it only goes together ONE WAY?!?"

Right


I get it now.


There are 9 realms - not worlds.

This is a similar theme to actual Norse Mythology.

Heroes are chosen to defeat Chaos in the ultimate battle - like the human heroes who die in battle.



I am now interested again.

Da Butcha wrote:
I can believe the reasoned post about abandoning the current market of WFB and trying to create a new market of buyers for AOS, except for one thing:

GW is pushing the old WFB IP with Mordheim, Vermintide, Total War, etc. games.

That doesn't disprove it, but it makes me scratch my head.

If people play one of these games and like it, and say, "Hey, that's really cool! How can I explore this more?" , the answer has to be "you can't. GW doesn't make this stuff any more." It's the same weird decision that sees Bloodbowl as a video game (and BFG, and Space Hulk, etc.), but not as a playable game from the owner of the IP.

Except that at least with Bloodbowl or Battlefleet Gothic, the developer knew what they were getting into. Did the guys who are working on Vermintide, or Warhammer: Total War (or whatever) know that GW was going to blow up and completely abandon the IP they were working in? It's one thing to develop a game that serves as an ad for a game GW no longer makes. It's another to maybe think GW will be able to promote your game to their players, only to discover that GW has completely destroyed the setting of your game in their player base.



On a completely unrelated topic, has anyone else noted (because I don't see any comments on it), the complete lack of customization so far?

You don't have magic items. You don't have weapon and armor choices. So far, nothing in the game can be fielded in any way other than the way it is packaged. Is the warscroll for an Empire Hero going to have the options for greatweapons/handweapons/shields/mounts/pistols/lance/blah/blah/blah? I recognize that the Warscrolls we have now are for the newest units only, but does anyone really think that the options for customization that were previously available are still going to be there?

Different mechanic. They aren't pushing WFB at all. They Sold the rights to use the IP to someone to make a game. Any advertising for them from the videogame is just a bonus on top of what's important, the $$$$$. And given a choice of things to make a videogame of Mordheim is a hell of a lot better story than AoS.

 rabidaskal wrote:
Anyone think there gonna be chaos Stormcast Eternals?

I hear fully half the brotherhoods turned when Sigmar's most trusted lieutenant fell to Chaos.

Hmm. So far Diablohammer 40k looks... I am not sure what to think of it. The art style is solid and the rules are a disaster.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Hmm. So far Diablohammer 40k looks... I am not sure what to think of it. The art style is solid and the rules are a disaster.

Keep in mind that these are the starter's rules. Maybe they'll be more and some FAQ's after the initial release.

Da Butcha wrote:
On a completely unrelated topic, has anyone else noted (because I don't see any comments on it), the complete lack of customization so far?

I'm not that worriedl Remember, this is the intro set, so GW is keeping it simple. Compare the 40k starter forces vs the DA / CSM Codices, the BA / Nids Codex, etc..

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 rabidaskal wrote:
Anyone think there gonna be chaos Stormcast Eternals?

I hear fully half the brotherhoods turned when Sigmar's most trusted lieutenant fell to Chaos.

THHHPOILERZ!!

As a general Nay-Sayer - this move towards basing the new game dramatically on Norse Mythology (looking at the leaked excerpts) is a very good move (for me at least) by GW.

Hell, depending on what the full rules are like I might actually be tempted to start up AoS.

Example of the Viking Realms compared to the Sigmar Realms

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 rabidaskal wrote:
Anyone think there gonna be chaos Stormcast Eternals?

I hear fully half the brotherhoods turned when Sigmar's most trusted lieutenant fell to Chaos.

And 2 more disappeared, never to be seen again....

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 rabidaskal wrote:
Anyone think there gonna be chaos Stormcast Eternals?

I hear fully half the brotherhoods turned when Sigmar's most trusted lieutenant fell to Chaos.

That would be a shocking turn of events. I can't imagine what the realms would do if Sigmar was greviously injured in the culmination of that great betrayal and his stormcast eternals and the realms had to continue without him.

I assembled my free Eternal and it is a nice model (head is tiny though.) But besides the models everything seems pretty horrible. I'm truly saddened by the demolition of the background and I was not even that invested in the FB. I still cannot believe that there would be no army balancing mechanic whatsoever. That would mean that the game is dead on arrival and it is hard to believe that GW would be that stupid.(and if they are, this thing deserves and needs to die, lest they try something similar with 40K.)

But lets try to be constructive: Mikhaila, you have the 90-page book. Can you tell us anything more about the setting? Are the different realms and their denizens described? Is there more info on Red Slayers? Is there any maps?

 Wulfmar wrote:
Heroes are chosen to defeat Chaos in the ultimate battle - like the human heroes who die in battle.

Isn't that basically what happened to Karl Franz at Altdorf?

Lord Corellia wrote:

 Talys wrote:
On the bright/dark side, it means GW is probably going to make more snapfit models. Again, not really my thing, but a lot of people prefer them to multipart plastic, because they are just easier to build. It appeals to a different niche of modeler/painter (than me).

I enjoy building models, but sometimes I prefer snapfit. Nothing irks me more than wondering aloud to myself "but why did they give me this model in 14 pieces if it only goes together ONE WAY?!?"

The reason is to get rid of undercuts (dead areas that can't be built with a 2 part mold) and to allow for more complex bits. On metal minis, you get a lot of places where between a tabard and cloak you have a solid mass. With GW models, this almost never happens anymore; you have pieces that you can hold at any angle and see "into" the model. Plus, with GW minis that are like you describe (like the new Chaplain), it's physically impossible to cast it in 3 or 4 pieces and get as much detail, because of the shape and pose, even though it's posed one way.

Of course, a lot of people don't care about such things too. Sometimes, it can only be appreciated at a technical level as, "sweet, how did they do that?" -- the problem being, a lot of folks wouldn't even notice "that" was something unusual or difficult in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wulfmar wrote:
As a general Nay-Sayer - this move towards basing the new game dramatically on Norse Mythology (looking at the leaked excerpts) is a very good move (for me at least) by GW.

Hell, depending on what the full rules are like I might actually be tempted to start up AoS.

Example of the Viking Realms compared to the Sigmar Realms

Spoiler:

In Norse Mythology, there are nine worlds, and these are divided into three levels.

In the first level is Asgard, the home of the Aesir.

Vanaheim, the home of the Vanir.

Alfheim, the home of the Light Elves.

In the middle is Midgard "Middle Earth", the home of the Humans. Midgard is connected to Asgard by Bifrost "The Rainbow Bridge".

Jotunheim, the home of the Giants.

Svartalfheim, the home of the Dark Elves.

Nidavellir, the home of the Dwarfs.

Niflheim is to the north, somewhere in Niflheim under the ground is Helheim home of the dead.

Muspelheim is to the south, it is the home of the fire Giants and Demons.

If they give us Fantasy Space Wolves, I might be sold But no Santa Chariot, LOL.

 Warzoner wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Hmm. So far Diablohammer 40k looks... I am not sure what to think of it. The art style is solid and the rules are a disaster.

Keep in mind that these are the starter's rules. Maybe they'll be more and some FAQ's after the initial release.

I'd willing to bet the "advanced" gamers get a campaign book before Christmas (or sooner) to make this much more like WFB. core rules simple, then add an (optional) extra layer on top

Hi, I'm new to the Dakka forum but have been following this thread from the beginning and it's been an emotional minefield with all the conflicting rumors, arguments and theories about this new release. I feel I need to put some of my jumbled thoughts on Age of Sigmar into words before my mind finally fails me.

First off, I don't hate what I have seen of the rules. A little lacking in depth for my usual tastes but I will see how it actually works on the tabletop before I commit or quit. Typically my main criteria (in order of importance to me) for a wargame I would like to play are :

Background - Does it engage my interest - Too early to say on AOS but what I've seen seems interesting as long as I don't try to think it is warhammer fantasy battle (and ignore some of the weird names)

Ruleset - Easy to understand, easy to house rule if required - This seems to be OK for AOS, not great but not bad.

Ruleset - Tactical and strategic depth - Does terrain affect the battle, does deployment, do different strategies affect the outcome of the battle i.e. refused flank, use of fast cavalry, etc, or is it just line em up and knock them down. - This is where AOS has me stumped, I can't see any depth and long term replayability but maybe I'm just missing something.

On the Subject of Balance and no points cost.
This concerns me the most and the only way I can see of creating a fair game is to use the Witchfinder General method.

If your not familiar with this game, it is a small model count skirmish game with no points cost on the forces and in which you fight any given battle twice, once with your own force and once using your opponents.

In this way you self regulate the spamming of impossible to beat armies as you may win with your ultimate waac force but then loose to that force in the repeat battle gaining no overall victory. It actually brings up some interesting list building tactics with the aim of creating a force that has a weakness you can exploit but hopefully not be spotted by your opponent.

 Crimson wrote:
I assembled my free Eternal and it is a nice model (head is tiny though.) But besides the models everything seems pretty horrible. I'm truly saddened by the demolition of the background and I was not even that invested in the FB. I still cannot believe that there would be no army balancing mechanic whatsoever. That would mean that the game is dead on arrival and it is hard to believe that GW would be that stupid.(and if they are, this thing deserves and needs to die, lest they try something similar with 40K.)

But lets try to be constructive: Mikhaila, you have the 90-page book. Can you tell us anything more about the setting? Are the different realms and their denizens described? Is there more info on Red Slayers? Is there any maps?

Do you have any Grey Knight terminator or regular PA heads to try out? You'll obviously lose out on the halo with those. Sanguinary guard or the head from the BA upgrade sprue might work. If someone has both the GK models and sanguinary guard models, a comparison shot with the eternal might be a good idea to post.

@Talys It is one of those things that you do not notice (or at least I did not) until you see it done badly. For example Mantic's KOW dwarfs (admittedly a kit done 4/5+ years ago) had no undercuts and horrible areas where beards and weapons merged into clothes and looked terrible. Not a knock on Mantic, I like a lot of there models. But when a plastic miniature lacks undercuts and is done badly it looks awful. I think we saw some really good plastic technology with the Lord on Sharpclaw from Island of Blood, that was a real advance.

It's kind of bad that our best hope right now is that GW is lying to us and these aren't the real complete rules.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
It's kind of bad that our best hope right now is that GW is lying to us and these aren't the real complete rules.

Yup.

This is an instance where it may have been better for them to say nothing or state that they haven't been informed of anything like they usually do(in my experience). That's what's really leaning me towards the "not lying" side.

On a different note, is Island of Blood getting clearanced out anywhere?

So along with the pre-orders will New Zealand/Australia be getting the first release of Warscrolls online? If so what GMT is that?

 Wulfenone wrote:
Dropfleet Commander is something I'm looking forward too for now 40k will do .

It's a fantastic game. Very fast moving and objective based over simply tabling your opponent. Also, the background is amazing.

4chan pics

Please don not post such huge, blurry pics without a spoiler tag.

Thank you, Kilkrazy.

Fantastical.

On a positive note, new players will continue to receive welts from their friends as the whippy sticks remain. *snap* OUCH!

 Necros wrote:
So, the pre-made scenarios are the balancing mechanic? So to play that scenario, you have to buy the models listed? What if you play dwarves, and there's only like 3 different scenarios to choose from with dwarf models, is the answer just to buy more stuff? (Don't answer that, cuz I already know the answer, just sayin')..

That scenario in the pic is a starter set scenario. So yes, that one is assuming you have the listed models.

We don't know how other scenarios will work yet, if there are any.

Any way to shrink those GIGANTIC pics? Spoiler tags or something? Please, do.

 atribix wrote:
Here is what I think. To simplify balance, I believe that the more powerful models, will be "worth" more than one on the battlefield. So, a bloodthirster may be worth 3 models in terms of balance and sudden death rules.

There has been no sign of anything like this in the material seen so far.

The 'balancing mechanic' is Sudden Death. That's it.