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I guess they expected folks to just play this or that formation and add another unit or 2 here and there.

I think it's easy enough to make different scrolls worth different points based on if they were a core choice or rare or whatever in 8th.

Apologies in advance for this question as I don't play Fantasy.

In terms of the arguments around points, what would stop someone using the current point system in 8th to get a balanced match, and yet still use the new war scrolls and rules to play. i.e we decide we are playing a 1500 point battle with our current armies, however we use the new rules and warscrolls to play the battle.

If that works, then only the new armies that are introduced would have an issue outside of the box sets.

Again sorry if this is a stupid question.

Let me acknowledge that I have absolutely no interest in playing this game at all but I do think I understand what GW has tried to create here and it's as unique as it is stupid (imho).

First of all, it's a cooperative game not a competitive one. However, AoS is not like other cooperative games where we cooperate to achieve some common game condition together (win) and therefore share in the resulting happiness. GW assumes that just being part of the process is winning enough.

So you're supposed to enter into it with NO expectation of balance. Not even of the "hey, don't be an a-hole, my army is half as powerful as yours" variety, because you are not actually competing with the other player. You are cooperating with him/her in creating a common experience.

GW seems to assume that their games don't have any additive value beyond their ability to create a narrative, or at least that such narrative value is worth spending many dollars and time on models and paint. Which it certainly isn't to anyone I know. If I was looking for a common storytelling experience, I think I'd just join a book club.

I think I might set up a popcorn stand at the local FLGS on AoS night. So people have some snacks while they watch adults competitively act like lunatics around a table.

Are they larping nerds playing a tabletop game? Are there poltergeists attacking them? Did they take LSD before they started their game?

Who knows, but take a seat and have some popcorn ($2 of course).

Has anybody else noticed the the single largest and most visible wargames miniature company has just become the biggest laughingstock in the entire industry?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Oh goody, games of AoS are going to have all the officially sanctioned "fun" of an office Christmas party.

Thinking about it, this comment really has hit the nail on the head. It really does have that awkward forced humour of the games an an office party. "Best beard of the year" awards and all that sort of thing.

 Compel wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Oh goody, games of AoS are going to have all the officially sanctioned "fun" of an office Christmas party.

Thinking about it, this comment really has hit the nail on the head. It really does have that awkward forced humour of the games an an office party. "Best beard of the year" awards and all that sort of thing.

It sounds like a Christmas office party or the games the Children's Librarian would play with the kids at the library I worked at.

And GW is still playing this as if it's a serious wargame:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyPbghStRo

If it wasn't so comical, I might actually cry.

Some of those rules are pretty funny but it will get old fast and what will be left is a unbalanced simpleton of a ruleset for very expensive miniatures. I really cant get my head around the fact that it doesnt just coexist with whfb, kids would start with this but look up to "serious warhammer" and join when ready.

I'd say it's a joke and a cash grab before whfb reboot planned for Total War release but then why the "only round bases in boxes" business? A bit too far for a joke.

Its like they decided MtG Unglued/Unhinged would make a great expensive tabletop game.

Spy_Smasher wrote:
Let me acknowledge that I have absolutely no interest in playing this game at all but I do think I understand what GW has tried to create here and it's as unique as it is stupid (imho).

First of all, it's a cooperative game not a competitive one. However, AoS is not like other cooperative games where we cooperate to achieve some common game condition together (win) and therefore share in the resulting happiness. GW assumes that just being part of the process is winning enough.

So you're supposed to enter into it with NO expectation of balance. Not even of the "hey, don't be an a-hole, my army is half as powerful as yours" variety, because you are not actually competing with the other player. You are cooperating with him/her in creating a common experience.

GW seems to assume that their games don't have any additive value beyond their ability to create a narrative, or at least that such narrative value is worth spending many dollars and time on models and paint. Which it certainly isn't to anyone I know. If I was looking for a common storytelling experience, I think I'd just join a book club.

So it works if we swap the definitions of competitive and co-operative around? Two players in a versus match with victory conditions is now a co-operative game? Call me old fashioned, but i'd rather stick to the original definitions and just say this is borked. Having to say/shout things during the game just reinforces that this is aimed at small children. Not my cup of tea.

 Xyxox wrote:
Has anybody else noticed the the single largest and most visible wargames miniature company has just become the biggest laughingstock in the entire industry?

Dude..., you're like...10 years too late with that...

I also feel that if they updated all the armies for 8th Ed, then made End of Times and then releasing AoS it would have been better.

because people would have two ways of playing battle, 1) in the normal way, using your 8Th Ed rules and army books if you have enough time to do it, 2) AoS games that last 1 hour with like 30 models on the table.

The Problem has someone before said, is that AoS as replaced Warhammer Battle.

it would have been interessting or at least acceptable if it was a side game in the univers of Battle, like Mordheim or Hero quest, but has it is...

I think our Battle players will mostly stay to 8th Ed between themselfs and occasionaly use the AoS rules for a quicky or if they want to play with a 40k player.

personnaly i would not mind to play a Game of AoS with like 1 Vampire lord, 2 units of Zombies, 1 unit of Skeletons and a few ghouls or Crypt things/Varghulvs-what-is-it and a Corpse Cart.

And i don't mind the silly rules, since its been 15 years that i shout Blood for the Blood god when my Khornate champions manages to make great deeds of War or win challenges, heck i even have Debauchery-Blood for the Blood God song on my phone and i play the first 5 seconds of it when i generate Blood Tithe points with my KDK.

but yeah, our lot is not really the socially awkward one, and we crack some stupid jokes during the game according to what happens on the table.

 Xyxox wrote:
And GW is still playing this as if it's a serious wargame:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFyPbghStRo

If it wasn't so comical, I might actually cry.

Actually, having watched that video I don't see them playing it as that at all. It is 4 minutes of model porn. It is all in direct line with exactly what Kirby was saying. We are a miniatures company. We create collectible minis. And to be honest, the models are very very nice. Maybe they're not your style, but they are certainly not garbage.

I was bitten by the fantasy bug shortly before this whole rumor of 9th started. I really think its deplorable the way GW built up fantasy and released all those new army books and models only to do this shortly thereafter. No respect for that at all. Wood elves especially got GORGEOUS new models, from what i gather an exciting army book, and then BOOM. end time -> this stuff.

I think a lot of criticism I've read on here is still premature. I think people should give it a chance. But if Kings of War was a stock right now I would be buying in as fast as I could.

I have no desire to see GW get away with the murder they have committed to Warhammer fantasy and it is WAY beyond due time that people went to a competitor in droves.

Love the models, love the hobby, hate the company. They've done nothing but extort their customers for as long as I have been involved.

Hrm, no I'm staying clear of this to be honest.

It's really actually making me question if I want to keep up with the hobby in general including 40k.

If anything happens like this to 40k I'm out. I collect Orks, they're generally a horde army, horde armies seem to have no benefit at all, just load up on the biggest most expensive units and your good to go!!.....

..... wait a minute, most expensive units? hrm....

fleegle23 wrote:

In terms of the arguments around points, what would stop someone using the current point system in 8th to get a balanced match, and yet still use the new war scrolls and rules to play.

The problem with that idea is that the points costs in 8th edition are formulated (however inconsistently) for WHFB. Age of Sigmar is a completely different game. Aspects of it are similar to Warhammer Fantasy, but so much of it has changed, and most critically the units' characteristics and the way they deal damage has changed... and so their WHFB points costs are meaningless in the new game.

These new rules, dear god.

so it is out in new zealand not sure how i got set to that lol. Think it is 75 new zealand dollars and was 250$ when I clicked on it in canada website.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Age-Sigmar-Box-ENG

 SJM wrote:
Hrm, no I'm staying clear of this to be honest.

It's really actually making me question if I want to keep up with the hobby in general including 40k.

If anything happens like this to 40k I'm out. I collect Orks, they're generally a horde army, horde armies seem to have no benefit at all, just load up on the biggest most expensive units and your good to go!!.....

..... wait a minute, most expensive units? hrm....

A Wraithknight is only marginally more expensive than a full mob of 30 orks. So, no, it's not pay to win. It's simply unfair.

Really hoping some reliable rumor mongers start posting about what the new incarnation of the races will be. As funny as these Ravening Scrolls are I'd really like to know the real direction they are taking things.

It appears that everything will be in this larger scale now. Perhaps that's why the core units haven't been getting updated.

The World Before Time is gone. Shattered. Consigned to an oblivion no-one thought possible. The metallic core of that ill-fated world was hurled through the cosmos, the God-King Sigmar clinging desperately to its sigmarite surface. Aeons passed, until the core caught the attention of the great drake Dracothion; it was he who rescued Sigmar, and taught him the secrets of the Mortal Realms - connected by Realmgates and peacefully populated for many years.

But even in this utopia, Chaos would find a way to corrupt and distort everything. The Age Of Chaos gradually turned life in the realms into hell. Embracing wisdom instead of strength, Sigmar retreated to the Celestial Realm and began assembling the greatest mortal warriors, steeping them in the magic of the stars and instilling them with absolute divinity.

The Stormcast Eternals, as Sigmar named them, are ready. Sigmar’s storm is lined up to unleash its fury on the forces of chaos. The realms will tremble and the skies will scorch as the legions of the Dark Gods feel the blistering rage of the Stormhosts!

The Age Of Sigmar has arrived.

Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a fantastic starter set for any and all fans of Warhammer! Detailing the first incursions of the Realmgate Wars, this box set contains everything you need to begin your adventures in the Age Of Sigmar. There’s a stunning amount of goodies contained inside - you get:

Forty-seven incredible Citadel miniatures (no, really, forty-seven) to start off your collection, including:
One Lord-Celestant
One Lord-Relictor
Three Retributors
Two units of five Liberators
Three Prosecutors
One Mighty Lord of Khorne
One Bloodsecrator
One Bloodstoker
One Khorgorath
Five Blood Warriors
Two units of ten Bloodreavers

A ninety-six page Warhammer Age of Sigmar book containing:

All new background information on the realms and factions in the Age of Sigmar;
Guides to all the included miniatures - who they are, their place in their army and their abilities, plus pages of incredible showcases;
A thrilling play-through narrative, introducing the deep, compelling story behind Warhammer Age of Sigmar;
All the rules and Warscrolls for every miniature included in the box.

As well as this, the box contains:

A four-page rules set (this is everything you need to know to begin playing);
A pack of twelve dice;
Two range rulers;
Two Stormcast Eternal Transfer sheets.

All in all, this is a spectacular-value boxed set for any and all fans of Warhammer. Get yours, and dive into the Age Of Sigmar now!

Am I missing something here, or is this new "warhammer" literally just running and charging at the enemy with pretty much zero subtlety?

It's like 10-15% of last edition.

Warhammer: Lobotomy Edition

I know they continue to tell us that they're a model company first and a games company second, but this is ridiculous.

Yeah I'll probably still stick mainly to WHFB and play AoS if I have a spare hour and a half, or if for some reason I'm at my local GW and not looking for a game of 40k.

That said, AoS still looks fun to me, it's just the whole 'no points' thing really rubs me the wrong way. I basically have to come up with my army on the spot.

Then again, I haven't played a game of it yet, so I'll see how I and the other members of my club feel after we've had a few practice games (I'm so annoyed that I got my wisdom teeth removed yesterday... otherwise I'd be able to go into the club's monthly meeting tomorrow and try it out...)

There's a story that when Tom Leher, one of America's most gifted political satirists, learned that Henry 'secret bombings' Kissenger won the Nobel Peace Prize he said 'I can't top that' and promptly retired.

Today I understand why.

As I said before, it turn it looks like when i writing fake rumors about the formless void and such, I was an optimist.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There's a story that when Tom Leher, one of America's most gifted political satirists, learned that Henry 'secret bombings' Kissenger won the Nobel Peace Prize he said 'I can't top that' and promptly retired.

Today I understand why.

As I said before, it turn it looks like when i writing fake rumors about the formless void and such, I was an optimist.

Except I think GW out humored you mate. They took it way too far and ultimately went beyond everyone's expectations.

Well, it isn't a wargame.. Without structure, balance and a points system its just playing pew-pew with expensive dolls.

I was weirdly looking forward to this, but its just one big joke.

You'd better get used to shouting 'waaargh' a lot of playing Orcs whether you like it or not.

I can't actually believe what I'm reading. It's like if Wizards of the Coast decided every MtG set from now on was going to be an un-set. It's bizarre.

The one thing I've learned from this is, STOP BUYING 40K STUFF RIGHT NOW!

It's just not worth the risk.

the starter box is really nice tho I checking it out now . One thing bugging me is the khorne got iron fists now

 Xyxox wrote:
The one thing I've learned from this is, STOP BUYING 40K STUFF RIGHT NOW!

It's just not worth the risk.

This is a really good point.

 Xyxox wrote:
The one thing I've learned from this is, STOP BUYING 40K STUFF RIGHT NOW!

It's just not worth the risk.

Seconded, I'll finish the projects I have but I'm not putting any more money into the hobby.