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2015/07/04 10:42:26
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Funny that people are even discussing the fateweaver/skaven combo allready. Unfortunately, if you try to roll 2d6, you can't get a 13. Changing the result of one of the dice won't do it either.
Doesn't matter. The dice are immaterial. He can change the result of a roll to the result of his choice. "I rolled a 7, but the table has a 13. I choose that result instead. I win. GG"
.
Or simply roll 2D12 or 2D20,...what?!..., nowhere does it says that you must roll 2D6's, it just says rolls 2 dices, and as far as i know nowhere in the rules does it says that you are limited only to D6's, while it does indeed tells you to use D6's when rolling for stuff, there is no rule that says " you cannot use any other kind of dices", just like this rule says "roll 2 dices" and not "roll 2D6's"...
See?, thats GW forging a narrative with your arse...
Read the rules, please. D6 is the default, on the first page. But if you want to roll d6 with vaule over 6, then that's another story.
2015/07/04 10:42:31
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Or simply roll 2D12 or 2D20,...what?!..., nowhere does it says that you must roll 2D6's, it just says rolls 2 dices, and as far as i know nowhere in the rules does it says that you are limited only to D6's, while it does indeed tells you to use D6's when rolling for stuff, there is no rule that says " you cannot use any other kind of dices", just like this rule says "roll 2 dices" and not "roll 2D6's"...
See?, thats GW forging a narrative with your arse...
It's no wonder GW had to simplify rules, even with just 4 pages you still it up.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2015/07/04 10:43:01
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Page one of the main rules says it uses D6.
Admittedly it doesn't say it doesn't use other kinds of dice... but then the same could be said for 40k. 40k doesn't say you can't use other dice, it just says almost all dice rolls are made with D6s.
2015/07/04 10:44:49
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
heartserenade wrote: I think they're really trying to aim for the board game crowd on this.
Disagree though. If we hold up the board game comparison, imagine playing Risk where A starts with 40 countries and B with 5. Not a very fun-promising game.
heartserenade wrote: I think they're really trying to aim for the board game crowd on this.
Disagree though. If we hold up the board game comparison, imagine playing Risk where A starts with 40 countries and B with 5. Not a very fun-promising game.
Depends if those 5 countries include Australia. Once someone holes up in Australia, they aren't going anywhere
quickfuze wrote: So you think having to spend two hours negotiating how and what is going to be in the game, house rules, clarifications and what is an even battle is the foundation For a good game?
What kind of friends do you have that it takes two hours to say "let's not use Special Characters, they are silly"?
Some obscure polynesian languages are surprisingly verbiose.
I feel so bad for the WHFB players right now. Ridiculously silly 'rules' on the warscrolls, no points values or other effective balancing mechanism, and the main rules reduced to 4 pages. I never would have expected this level of oversimplification. I'm a 40k player and I would be very upset if that suffered the same treatment. (Ive often considered Fantasy, but that's not going to happen now.)
I'm very confused about GW's motivation in this. It's clear that this is intended as an entry game for children, and there was a gap in the market for that, but fething this is beyond. I remember playing Heroquest and Space Crusade as a child. Those were fantastic entry games and were incredibly detailed and mature compared to this absurdity.
And why on earth couldn't they keep the main Fantasy rules alive alongside AoS? Maybe as a free download if they don't want to stock the books. Call it Advanced Warhammer or something? That way everyone is kept happy and they have a broader potential customer base. Surely the point of an entry game is to generate interest in the more complex rules systems that have better longevity.
It was so exciting to graduate to Advanced Heroquest and 40k, and that provided GW with a loyal long term customer. Through various feth-ups and poor business decisions (ending bitz, raising prices, what they did to White Dwarf, Finecast, the end of specialist games, Aos, etc etc etc) they have basically lost that loyal custom. I haven't bought anything in ages now. I WAS planning to buy some Fantasy minis for conversions, but now I will not because I don't want to endorse AoS.
2015/07/04 10:52:30
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
heartserenade wrote: I think they're really trying to aim for the board game crowd on this. And I think it's a legitimate move: board games are big right now, and I could've done the same if I believe just fixing the mistakes in WHFB just won't cut it.
I've seen a lot of statements like this:
"They're trying to lure 40k players / narrative gamers / casual players / people who love board games"
Well, that's all me. I've got a decent 40k Chaos army, I only really play with a small group of mates, and we are certainly not competitive. I probably spend more money on buying new board games than I do on Warhammer truth be told! I was hoping this new Fanatsy Warhammer game would be my gateway back into it all, after play 15 or so years ago.
Instead I am feeling totally jaded about everything GW right now. I can't imagine buying anything with their name on at the moment, and I may jsut have to stop playing and back away. This idiocy is just making me so angry and sad at the wasted opportunity and goodwill.
I mean, Bloodsecrator? What sort of fethed up nonsense is that word and model?
2015/07/04 10:56:02
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
This is like the Highlander: Endgame of tabletop wargames. You go in with the lowest of expectations, realise immediately that it's even worse, then try to wrap your brain around all these creative new ways of sucking ass. Rationally you know it's some really funny gak, but despite yourself you're too invested to laugh.
If the zaniness is a well-concidered part of the game then it'll be awkward, embarrasing and (mostly) unfunny. If it's them trolling fans of the established game/setting then it's just GW adding insult to injury. Either way, what the hell.
I don't see any reason to try and make this game work as a replacement for Warhammer. Just switch to another system or use one of the older editions. Or write your own game from scratch.
2015/07/04 11:03:53
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
heartserenade wrote: I think they're really trying to aim for the board game crowd on this.
Disagree though. If we hold up the board game comparison, imagine playing Risk where A starts with 40 countries and B with 5. Not a very fun-promising game.
No, it's Risk with no rules for who starts with what. Who would even agree to play at 40:5?
Of course, GW's main failing for the past decade has been in assuming that players are reasonable people and they keep pushing this angle despite all evidence to the contrary. You people don't seem to grasp that the entire game is "opponent's permission". Even with the points system, you couldn't actually field any particular force against me if I didn't let you. By doing away with points, they did away with this insane notion you have that you can force me to play something I don't want to, just because it's "official".
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2015/07/04 11:05:15
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Page one of the main rules says it uses D6.
Admittedly it doesn't say it doesn't use other kinds of dice... but then the same could be said for 40k. 40k doesn't say you can't use other dice, it just says almost all dice rolls are made with D6s.
Good grief people, of all the things to criticize here... All of GW's rulesets are positively defined rulesets; only those things you are allowed to do are defined, nothing else is permitted. Until other dice are *specified* you roll D6's.
(I do applaud you for finding the one thing that's not actually an ambiguity or example of poor/no balance, though )
2015/07/04 11:14:09
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Alpharius wrote: It really does look like AoS is really going to help boost GW's Mantic's sales, doesn't it?
At least one company in Nottingham will be happy!
Right now, I am inches away from downing a bottle of whisky and jumping out a high window, because of what GW has done to fantasy.
KOW is the only thing that's keeping me sane right now.
My thanks to everybody who directed me to the Mantic site. Roll on August for that rulebook.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/04 11:16:26
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I am literally that guy who said he wasn't going to buy it because it looked rubbish and when the day came ordered it anyway.
Not me. I talked a lot of gak when the leaks came in, but I was still prepared to change my mind if, indeed, it all came together in the end like the GW fanboys said it would after the rest of the rules came out. Now that the warscrolls are up and things are even worse than I could have possibly imagined, I wouldn't even spend a penny on those models second hand. I honestly wouldn't let you give them to me, I don't want to touch this or any other WHF product ever again, and not only that but I'm panicking now because I'm quit heavily invested in 40k and don't want to see all that go to waste when GW inevitably pulls this gak over there.
I'd sooner write the god-damned rules myself than suffer the embarrassment of trying to play a game with this garbage. 7th can't be that hard to fix.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/07/04 11:18:15
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2015/07/04 11:18:25
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Going to get drunk with my mates and then try this. KOW for 'serious' play all the way. AoS sounds good for a giggle.
Having read through the rules and the warscrolls I don't believe the silly actions are anywhere near as big a part of the game as people are making out. They are only on a very small number of scrolls for iinstance. They look fairly easy to leave out, though, and as I don't intend to play this 'seriously' its not going to be a problem. That said, if everyone has had a few...
I wonder if I can mount a small speaker in Konrad's base and record something stupid for him to say?
2015/07/04 11:21:17
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I am literally that guy who said he wasn't going to buy it because it looked rubbish and when the day came ordered it anyway.
Not me. I talked a lot of gak when the leaks came in, but I was still prepared to change my mind if, indeed, it all came together in the end like the GW fanboys said it would after the rest of the rules came out. Now that the warscrolls are up and things are even worse than I could have possibly imagined, I wouldn't even spend a penny on those models second hand. I honestly wouldn't let you give them to me, I don't want to touch this or any other WHF product ever again, and not only that but I'm panicking now because I'm quit heavily invested in 40k and don't want to see all that go to waste when GW inevitably pulls this gak over there.
I'd sooner write the god-damned rules myself than suffer the embarrassment of trying to play a game with this garbage. 7th can't be that hard to fix.
Yeah, I share most of your concerns to be honest, I just really want those nice Khorne models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 11:21:27
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2015/07/04 11:28:49
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
heartserenade wrote: I think they're really trying to aim for the board game crowd on this.
Disagree though. If we hold up the board game comparison, imagine playing Risk where A starts with 40 countries and B with 5. Not a very fun-promising game.
I'm not saying they're doing it well.
2015/07/04 11:31:02
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I'm going to steal a post from Warseer as Harry, and Nigel Stillman, sums up my one of my main issues with AOS very well.
Army lists, points and balance .... Army lists, points are not just about balance, competative or tournament play. They are about enjoyment of the game.
Let me just share this with you ....
"By means of the lists it is possible to work out armies of a fixed points value, which, when set against each other should result in battles where the outcome is decided by the players skill". This is surely key to the enjoyment of playing and indeed winning. I want to be able to say 'well played mate' when I loose. Without balance two good friends trying to play a fair game are going to be saying to one another ... 'sorry mate, that looked about balanced but you never stood a chance'.
"Army lists fulfil another important function, in that the existence of a list defines the 'personality' of an army". Oh! Sir! suits you sir! I want to play against characterful armies .... tightly themed armies ... a thing of beauty on the table .... not some mish mash of units collected from across all the ranges.
"providing a useful template around which to build an army" Yes! Thats what i'm talking about. We don't just collect stuff at random, We collect stuff in sets ... that fit together. We collect them in numbers to fill out slots in lists. We collect stuff to have everything in a set. They do not seem to understand the first thing about boys collecting toys???
and here is my favorite bit ......
Should you wish to pack up your army, travel to some distant place, set up your troops on a far flung table and challenge all-comers to a game of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, now you can do so in the true and certain knowledge that even if the enemy cannot speak your language they will probably be quite at ease about the composition of your army" What a beautiful notion that is ... I **** you not it brings a tear to my eye.
Where did those quotes come from? Our Lord, Nigel Stillman Warhammer Armies 3rd edition.
Silent Puffin? wrote: I'm going to steal a post from Warseer as Harry, and Nigel Stillman, sums up my one of my main issues with AOS very well.
Army lists, points and balance .... Army lists, points are not just about balance, competative or tournament play. They are about enjoyment of the game.
Let me just share this with you ....
"By means of the lists it is possible to work out armies of a fixed points value, which, when set against each other should result in battles where the outcome is decided by the players skill". This is surely key to the enjoyment of playing and indeed winning. I want to be able to say 'well played mate' when I loose. Without balance two good friends trying to play a fair game are going to be saying to one another ... 'sorry mate, that looked about balanced but you never stood a chance'.
"Army lists fulfil another important function, in that the existence of a list defines the 'personality' of an army". Oh! Sir! suits you sir! I want to play against characterful armies .... tightly themed armies ... a thing of beauty on the table .... not some mish mash of units collected from across all the ranges.
"providing a useful template around which to build an army" Yes! Thats what i'm talking about. We don't just collect stuff at random, We collect stuff in sets ... that fit together. We collect them in numbers to fill out slots in lists. We collect stuff to have everything in a set. They do not seem to understand the first thing about boys collecting toys???
and here is my favorite bit ......
Should you wish to pack up your army, travel to some distant place, set up your troops on a far flung table and challenge all-comers to a game of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, now you can do so in the true and certain knowledge that even if the enemy cannot speak your language they will probably be quite at ease about the composition of your army" What a beautiful notion that is ... I **** you not it brings a tear to my eye.
Where did those quotes come from? Our Lord, Nigel Stillman Warhammer Armies 3rd edition.
Very true. Points values and decent lists isn't just about competitive play or tournament play, it's about being able to put down a playable game where the outcome isn't determined in the army selection phase.
It doesn't matter how "reasonable" players might be, if you have no reference to the value of different units, you have no starting point for determining what might work for a game.
I find points values important even for narrative games. What if you're trying to forge the narrative of a desperate last stand against unfathomable odds? You don't want the game to last 2 turns with your the last standers being wiped out almost instantly because that's boring. You also don't want to go too far the other way and have the last standers actually winning them game Without points for a reference and/or a lot of past experience all you can hope to do is somewhat randomly put units down and forge the narrative of "something random happens".
2015/07/04 11:45:43
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Something you can easily house rule to ignore.
House-ruling points takes a lot more work, though.
Probably less work than house-ruling against existing points written into a rulebook. Getting a tourny to accept that an Eldar Wraithknight should probably be closer to 1200 points than the 400 points it is quoted in the rulebook is near impossible, all things considered. Points from scratch might be easier to swallow for people.
2015/07/04 11:47:40
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
it up.
)
Legion: Dark Angels 
