Age of Sigmar - Slaanesh Replaced? plus big book, stormcast archers, dismounted celestan

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**Nostromodamus**

GW Starter Sets generally are good value for money.

**mikhaila**

pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

**Carnage43**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm usually scornful of GW, especially regarding their prices and poor value for money but I noticed something when I was looking at the new Terminator Genysis wargame starter set.

Age of Sigmar
£75, 47 miniatures.

Spoiler:

Terminator Genysis
£70, 32 miniatures.

Spoiler:

Age of Sigmar must be the best value for money set GW's done in a long time.

The starter boxes are typically a really good deal by GW standards, so no real surprise here.

**Eldarain**

mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

New rumor states that the legacy rules and minis that are up now won't mesh with the changed aesthetic and larger scale new releases when the reimagined versions of the factions are released.

**Azreal13**

notprop wrote:
Yeah, Az is still pecivering with RTB01 Space Marines because GW ruined 40k with new bigger sculpts.

Thanks to a "friend" who offered to sell my models when I decided to quit around the start of third, I don't own anything made much before 2010, and I never saw a penny for all those thousands of points of Eldar, Chaos and Blood Angels.

Metal Wraithguard, Aspects, War Walker, Dreadnought, original Land Raider, Rhinos, metal Dreads...

I'm depressing myself just thinking about what they'd be worth if I'd just stuck them in a cupboard at my folks house.

**Relapse**

I'll be trying it out this week with some friends to see what we think. I imagine the release schedule is going to be all chaos and sigmarites for the next bit.
I really like the alternating combat system. I really think this is what is going to get me back into fantasy since I am not going to need days of models to play the game. As far as my undead not fitting into what may be coming out? I just look at it as a group pulled out of their reality like in a Moorcock or other fantasy novels with a theme of differing dimensions. It'll work and I won't be scrapping my old stuff. Any excess I have, I can swap out for other Warhammer units people don't want, giving me a fair selection of small armies to try.

**TiamatRoar**

Eldarain wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

New rumor states that the legacy rules and minis that are up now won't mesh with the changed aesthetic and larger scale new releases when the reimagined versions of the factions are released.

Isn't that sometimes the case when going to new editions anyways? I mean, old edition daemonettes don't really mesh with the new ones, etc...

**Xyxox**

mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

GW PR Rep at Forge World Open Day stated openly, once the new factions get a rework, the old models will go OOP. Said the new Orruks were going to be considerably different from the Orcs of today, so when the Orruks get new models, all old Orc and Goblin models will be pulled.

**insaniak**

Accolade wrote:
See, I feel like this will be the second great failing of WH-AOS (the first being the lack of points or any concept of balancing). They'll screw up the ability to buy kits as bits for 40k

Only until next year, when 40K will be replaced by Age of Abaddon, with identical gameplay to AoS and new, improved, larger minis...

**Ghaz**

mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

Its from pretre's post HERE:

pretre wrote:
From a guy on Something Awful:

GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.

This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.

He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.

The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.

There will never be points values.

On to the slightly positive stuff then.

They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.

The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.

GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3411068&pagenumber=511#post447395865

**Xyxox**

insaniak wrote:
Accolade wrote:
See, I feel like this will be the second great failing of WH-AOS (the first being the lack of points or any concept of balancing). They'll screw up the ability to buy kits as bits for 40k

Only until next year, when 40K will be replaced by Age of Abaddon, with identical gameplay to AoS and new, improved, larger minis...

The one thing people will like is there will end up be real honest to gosh true scale space marines.

**insaniak**

Shadowclaimer wrote:
Part of the reason for the scale change is simply because its doable now.

You guys seem to ignore the fact that every few editions models get less squat and more "limbsy" and realistically proportioned. The main reason the pre-AOS edition Chaos Warriors look the way they do is simply because that's the easiest method to produce them given the technology and plastic they had at the time with as few errors as possible.

As technology gets better, we're seeing less "3rd Edition Eldar" and more Sigmarite style figures where their arms and limbs are fully sized and posed instead of stuck to their chests or them having no necks.

None of that is anything to do with increasing the scale. Models being more realistically proportioned doesn't automatically result in bigger miniatures.

**His Master's Voice**

They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it.

What the feth for? The product is out. And the man saying "we want feedback" has already told us there will be no points ever.

So they want feedback, but just the right kind, or what?

Maybe they should have looked for customer input before the release date?

**TheKbob**

I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

**insaniak**

His Master's Voice wrote:

Maybe they should have looked for customer input before the release date?

That would have been otiose.

**mikhaila**

Xyxox wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

GW PR Rep at Forge World Open Day stated openly, once the new factions get a rework, the old models will go OOP. Said the new Orruks were going to be considerably different from the Orcs of today, so when the Orruks get new models, all old Orc and Goblin models will be pulled.

That's actually quite awesome. I was worried they wouldn't be moving ahead on stuff fast, and I'm used to my orcs and orks being dead last to update. I have most every orc model going back to 3rd. The scale creep doesn't bother me, or how things fit with new things. Part of that comes from having so many armies. About 20 at the shop and the old stuff has been coming home to my game room for a long, long time. I'm currently working on a squad of the oldest metal beastmen for AoS and two of the old nick bibby dragon ogres i found on ebay.

But i don't see how this is "orcs going away". it's the same thing as any other time new models came out. People are just still in their flaminganger stage so they are pissed/disappointed about things more. If the new Orruks look even half as good as the other new models, it's going to be glorious.

**JohnHwangDD**

ImAGeek wrote:
You really like the idea of having a prescribed force for each battle?

Way back when, this wasn't uncommon. I find things like the "Seven Samurai" scenario in WFB6 to be pretty cool.

**Relapse**

mikhaila wrote:
Xyxox wrote:
mikhaila wrote:
pretre wrote:
Melissia wrote:
So no more orcs and goblins.

Whelp, there goes my plans to buy a spider rider army.

When it comes to being a massive, depressing disappointment, GW never disappoints.

Orcs and Goblins are still there...

No clue where people are getting these ideas. The rules for old orcs and goblins are up. The models aren't discontinued. They renamed them in the new fluff.

Are we drinking some new rumor koolaid?

GW PR Rep at Forge World Open Day stated openly, once the new factions get a rework, the old models will go OOP. Said the new Orruks were going to be considerably different from the Orcs of today, so when the Orruks get new models, all old Orc and Goblin models will be pulled.

That's actually quite awesome. I was worried they wouldn't be moving ahead on stuff fast, and I'm used to my orcs and orks being dead last to update. I have most every orc model going back to 3rd. The scale creep doesn't bother me, or how things fit with new things. Part of that comes from having so many armies. About 20 at the shop and the old stuff has been coming home to my game room for a long, long time. I'm currently working on a squad of the oldest metal beastmen for AoS and two of the old nick bibby dragon ogres i found on ebay.

But i don't see how this is "orcs going away". it's the same thing as any other time new models came out. People are just still in their flaminganger stage so they are pissed/disappointed about things more. If the new Orruks look even half as good as the other new models, it's going to be glorious.

Did you get any idea for any release dates in your conversation with the reps? I am thinking more and more that I'll be getting into this game in a big way with my undead the more I hear about it.

**JohnHwangDD**

TheKbob wrote:
I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

You're aware that GW never really wanted serious competitive play, right? That they know they win far harder without competitive players in the mix.

**TalonZahn**

I guess that's one way to drive up sales of a failed division in your company.

Destroy the world, flush the game, make a new game, give everyone new "rules" with a wink and a nod.

Then in 6 months begin replacing and invalidating everything they currently own.

Just hit the old reset button and everyone can adapt or piss off.

Maybe they'll start taking trade-ins by the pound.

**Azreal13**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

You're aware that GW never really wanted serious competitive play, right? That they know they win far harder without competitive players in the mix.

Never?

Apart from all the time that they did, right?

**Las**

The rules look fun and I like their new approach but I just cannot get over the bland aesthetic and fluff. It's so mind numbingly boring.

**WargamingWarrior**

TheKbob wrote:
I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

Good. It offers more scope for awesome conversions without some boring try hard whining about how it doesn't fit in to precise specifications.

**Tank_Dweller**

TalonZahn wrote:
I guess that's one way to drive up sales of a failed division in your company.

Destroy the world, flush the game, make a new game, give everyone new "rules" with a wink and a nod.

Then in 6 months begin replacing and invalidating everything they currently own.

Just hit the old reset button and everyone can adapt or piss off.

Maybe they'll start taking trade-ins by the pound.

I wouldn't worry about things being invalidated, this game is a free for all, hell i'm gonna field my Fellglaive. Sigmarites can eat my Volkite.

**JohnHwangDD**

Azreal13 wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

You're aware that GW never really wanted serious competitive play, right? That they know they win far harder without competitive players in the mix.

Never?

Never.

Show me a GW-organized tournament for which the "champion" was determined solely by competitive Win-Loss record and margin of victory. Go on, take as long as you like.

GW only ever wanted people to buy more stuff.

The notion of GW actually wanting competitive play? That's a fiction that you've created of of thin air.

**TheKbob**

WargamingWarrior wrote:
TheKbob wrote:
I like that no one else pointed out "serious game" and the lack of points values, serious scenario play, no standardization of bases, and measuring from models (including weapons) without an extremely restrictive modeling requirements.

This game will never be taken seriously in a competitive fashion and is flushing the good will of whatever remained in the Fantasy base. They're going all-in on a game losing strategy, IMO. Time will tell, but I'd not invest heavily in it unless you're planning 40k conversions... and even then...

Good. It offers more scope for awesome conversions without some boring try hard whining about how it doesn't fit in to precise specifications.

Instead it offers headache scenarios and even more cheeseball nonsense. Clan rats can't get into 0.5" of a Phoenix, so I guess it's just gonna wreck your day.

And yea, games specifically designed for competitive play are better for casual gaming. But a ton of GW fans who've only ever play GW games will never realize this. And it's a damn shame because some better casual games, like Malifaux, deserve larger player bases.

**Agent_Tremolo**

notprop wrote:
Yeah, Az is still pecivering with RTB01 Space Marines because GW ruined 40k with new bigger sculpts.

2nd Edition

Spoiler:

Gorkamorka

Spoiler:

AoBR

Spoiler:

My army got squatted! Twice! Waaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

**TheKbob**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Never.

Show me a GW-organized tournament for which the "champion" was determined solely by competitive Win-Loss record and margin of victory. Go on, take as long as you like.

GW only ever wanted people to buy more stuff.

The notion of GW actually wanting competitive play? That's a fiction that you've created of of thin air.

Ah, so I guess 'Ard Boyz was just a fever dream. Because it totally fit that build of win-loss with higher and higher levels of qualifiers for the main event.

Plus that's what the entirety of 3E-5E 40k was based upon. Fantasy had an 'Ard Boyz, too, and had a booming tournament scene until 8E crapped the bed.

See previous statements about competitive games better for all.

**TalonZahn**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Never.

Show me a GW-organized tournament for which the "champion" was determined solely by competitive Win-Loss record and margin of victory. Go on, take as long as you like.

GW only ever wanted people to buy more stuff.

The notion of GW actually wanting competitive play? That's a fiction that you've created of of thin air.

Didn't they have some thing a few years ago that had no comp/soft score?

Skull of Games, Throne of Hardness, Khorneball 2000.... Some crazy crap that was pure win/loss.

Supposedly all hard core.

[Edit] 'Ard Boyz, there ya go!

**Blacksails**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Never.

Show me a GW-organized tournament for which the "champion" was determined solely by competitive Win-Loss record and margin of victory. Go on, take as long as you like.

GW only ever wanted people to buy more stuff.

The notion of GW actually wanting competitive play? That's a fiction that you've created of of thin air.

Wasn't 'Ard Boyz run by GW? They sent out the packages to local stores to run, with prize support from GW. The winner was determined solely on victory and degrees of victory, and there was no painting requirement.

The fact that it was also a sales gimmick doesn't mean GW didn't also potentially want to foster a competitive scene, knowing that they could make a lot of money through it.

*Edit* Damn ninjas.