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 Manchu wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Age of Sigmar isn't replacing Warhammer, even if AOS hadn't existed Warhammer would've been cancelled. Age of Sigmar is a new game in the same universe.

While you make a fair point, I think for most people that issue is invisible. This has a lot to do with how GW has released AoS (starting with End Times). They keep insisting AoS is not WHFB 9th but it will be a long time before that feels like a meaningful statement.

GW has a lot of issues with communication, I really wish they'd step that up. A lot of this salt could probably have been fixed or diluted at least had they actually spoken to the players and made more announcements leading up to its release.

The stuff we've heard from the Forge World Open where the GW reps were answering any question asked basically was awesome, I hope they continue doing more of that.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Age of Sigmar isn't replacing Warhammer, even if AOS hadn't existed Warhammer would've been cancelled. Age of Sigmar is a new game in the same universe.

While you make a fair point, I think for most people that issue is invisible. This has a lot to do with how GW has released AoS (starting with End Times). They keep insisting AoS is not WHFB 9th but it will be a long time before that feels like a meaningful statement.

GW has a lot of issues with communication, I really wish they'd step that up. A lot of this salt could probably have been fixed or diluted at least had they actually spoken to the players and made more announcements leading up to its release.

The stuff we've heard from the Forge World Open where the GW reps were answering any question asked basically was awesome, I hope they continue doing more of that.

20 years ago i went to a retailer summit at the US headquarters. We worked to identify the biggest problems. Communication was #1.
The next year I attended again, lots of little things fixed, new problems talked about, Communication was agreed by all to to be the biggest problem.
Third year I was told it wasn't happening. They knew their biggest problem was communication, and they knew they still sucked at it. No need for a meeting

This is kind of old news, but I haven't seen it mentioned, the app, with built in balancing, seems to be confirmed.

Beasts Of War posted this on Facebook,

https://www.facebook.com/TheBeastsOfWar/posts/10152836733881315:0

The linked article mentions an email from GW talking about the app, I assume this was a public email (I'm not on any GW mailing lists anymore) rather than one specially to BoW, but it seems quite solid.

 Azreal13 wrote:
This is kind of old news, but I haven't seen it mentioned, the app, with built in balancing, seems to be confirmed.

Beasts Of War posted this on Facebook,

https://www.facebook.com/TheBeastsOfWar/posts/10152836733881315:0

The linked article mentions an email from GW talking about the app, I assume this was a public email (I'm not on any GW mailing lists anymore) rather than one specially to BoW, but it seems quite solid.

A couple things:
- I've seen nothing about balancing, simply about making army lists.
- The GW rep they are talking about is the Something Awful post that all the reposters are talking about. It was not an e-mail but a visit to FW open day, I believe.
- In general, BoW is not a source for anything. They only repost.

 Azreal13 wrote:
This is kind of old news, but I haven't seen it mentioned, the app, with built in balancing, seems to be confirmed.

Beasts Of War posted this on Facebook,

https://www.facebook.com/TheBeastsOfWar/posts/10152836733881315:0

The linked article mentions an email from GW talking about the app, I assume this was a public email (I'm not on any GW mailing lists anymore) rather than one specially to BoW, but it seems quite solid.

This is Beasts of War facebook page directing you to an article by brennon who summarizes a poster on their forums named redben who reposts a post he found here where a post from somethingawful was quoted.

 Xyxox wrote:
This is Beasts of War facebook page directing you to an article by brennon who summarizes a poster on their forums named redben who reposts a post he found here where a post from somethingawful was quoted.

Your version makes it sound even more ridiculous.

Beasts Of War wrote:Games Workshop have given us a hint of things to come with an email last night that confirmed there is an Age of Sigmar App on the way (free to download) which contains the Warscrolls, Rules and a way of bringing that all together to make an army for the tabletop…

- See more at: http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/age-sigmar-app-coming-future-plans/#sthash.FD6e0f2O.dpuf

I read that as a list building function, but meh, take the piss if you like.

So an AoS big rulebook is on the way. retailers have access to it and a company which often gets this stuff early is listing it on their ebay site for $59.99 USD. Which means it will retail probably around $80. Unless this company is not offering any discounts on the presale, which would be very surprising

 Azreal13 wrote:

Beasts Of War wrote:Games Workshop have given us a hint of things to come with an email last night that confirmed there is an Age of Sigmar App on the way (free to download) which contains the Warscrolls, Rules and a way of bringing that all together to make an army for the tabletop…

- See more at: http://www.beastsofwar.com/age-of-sigmar/age-sigmar-app-coming-future-plans/#sthash.FD6e0f2O.dpuf

I read that as a list building function, but meh, take the piss if you like.

No, I completely agree that it is a list building function. What it isn't yet is a balancing function (i.e. points, etc).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:
So an AoS big rulebook is on the way. retailers have access to it and a company which often gets this stuff early is listing it on their ebay site for $59.99 USD. Which means it will retail probably around $80. Unless this company is not offering any discounts on the presale, which would be very surprising

Link? Because some rumors say it is just a fancy version of the AoS hobby book.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Core-Rules-Book-Cheap-Overseas-Ship-PRESALE-/391193828209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f81b71

Core rulebook pre-sale

How does one make a list building function with no balance? It would be functionally the same as the individual warscrolls if it had no balance element... Making the app and its functions redundant?

I'm sure a "list building function" and a "balance function" come somewhat hand in hand, don't they?

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
How does one make a list building function with no balance? It would be functionally the same as the individual warscrolls if it had no balance element... Making the app and its functions redundant?

I'm sure a "list building function" and a "balance function" come somewhat hand in hand, don't they?

It could work like this:
1) Build your list by selecting which warscrolls are in it.
2) Then when you are playing a game you have a handy way of getting to just the warscrolls you need.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Jeff Tracy wrote:
Having played four AoS games now (two from the starter set and two with armies my opponent and I created), I have to say that I think a lot of the rage/quit comments are misguided.

Before, so much of WHFB seemed to boil down to who was better at placing their movement trays. With the AoS rules, tactics come back into the game in interesting ways. Formations no longer matter, so how you move and place models takes on a whole new significance. For game balance, my opponents and I agreed on wounds as our number. We created a 100 wounds apiece battle, and the games lasted about 3 hours each. The random aspect of who goes first each turn keeps things interesting and exciting. And the pile in mechanic allows for more models to get into combat rather than being stuck at the end of rank.

One thing I really liked about the scrolls was that most monsters now have variable stats, depending on their wounds. It makes you think how best to use them rather than just barrelling forward into combat.

My big takeaway - if you like 8th edition, your game is still there, and now your models will be there as they are being supported by AoS. If you are new to fantasy, want to pick it up again, or play 40K, you might want to give AoS a try. So far, the games have been fun (something that was lacking in my last experience with WHFB). Of course, your milage may vary.

So you think a game where units have facing, turning on the spot is not free and flank/ rear charges provide advantage is less tactical than a game with none of the above where you move entire units like they were skirmish models. Interesting tbh.

As I said, in my experience, almost every WHFB I played (three years of High Elves) ultimately boiled down to who was better at moving and aligning their rectangles around the board. I understood the concept behind why a ranks couldn't move through a passage blocked by terrain, but it was still frustrating. For a lot of our group, we eventually stripped terrain down to the minimum, and then most games became slugfests, with again, folks who were best at managing movement trays gaining the upper hand.

So I think AoS has opened up new tactical options - especially for charging and with the 3 inch pile in moves. Cover comes into play in ways it didn't before. And so far, for what seems to be a very big issue for those who are complaining, balancing the game using wounds as the determinate has worked well. My impressions of the game may change, but for now, both my opponents and I agree that the AoS games we have played have been fun, and that the rules have us re-interested in fantasy. In one game, my opponent was unwrapping a Tomb King army that had been stored away for years, and it was cool to see it back in action. Which I think is kind of the point GW was going for. Fantasy was a dying system. For those that like 8th, AoS means that GW is not abandoning their fantasy line (like they have with LoTR and the Hobbit), which is good for players that like 8th edition. For new players, or ones looking to jump back into fantasy, AoS appears to be the shot in the arm that it needed.

 Icculus wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Core-Rules-Book-Cheap-Overseas-Ship-PRESALE-/391193828209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f81b71

Core rulebook pre-sale

Sure looks to me like that person is selling the book from the starter set, since they're also selling the two sets of figures from the starter set as well.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
How does one make a list building function with no balance? It would be functionally the same as the individual warscrolls if it had no balance element... Making the app and its functions redundant?

I'm sure a "list building function" and a "balance function" come somewhat hand in hand, don't they?

Pretty easy:
1 War Scroll of rune Lord
1 War Scroll of Hammerers
1 Cannon

I just built a list with no points. I imagine this is what the app will do; basically allow you to make a list of what you are bringing/have.

 solkan wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Core-Rules-Book-Cheap-Overseas-Ship-PRESALE-/391193828209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f81b71

Core rulebook pre-sale

Sure looks to me like that person is selling the book from the starter set, since they're also selling the two sets of figures from the starter set as well.

No, thats Discount games. They're pretty legit and aren't just breaking up a box for high markups. This could be promising.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
How does one make a list building function with no balance? It would be functionally the same as the individual warscrolls if it had no balance element... Making the app and its functions redundant?

I'm sure a "list building function" and a "balance function" come somewhat hand in hand, don't they?

I see it more as "I want to use these units <click click click> and here are all of my special rules from the warscrolls."

Building an army doesn't necessitate building it to a specific points level. Though it might be the algorythmic thing we keep hearing about? Time will tell.

 solkan wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Core-Rules-Book-Cheap-Overseas-Ship-PRESALE-/391193828209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f81b71

Core rulebook pre-sale

Sure looks to me like that person is selling the book from the starter set, since they're also selling the two sets of figures from the starter set as well.

I dont see their listing for the two starter sets independently. This site only sells things new in box or as is from retailer. They dont open up boxes and sell piece by piece. I have ordered half of my 40k stuff from this company, and they have always had pre-orders available and have always been reliable.

 squall018 wrote:

 solkan wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Core-Rules-Book-Cheap-Overseas-Ship-PRESALE-/391193828209?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b14f81b71

Core rulebook pre-sale

Sure looks to me like that person is selling the book from the starter set, since they're also selling the two sets of figures from the starter set as well.

No, thats Discount games. They're pretty legit and aren't just breaking up a box for high markups. This could be promising.

" You are looking at a new Warhammer Age of Sigmar Core Rule Book. This is a pre-sale and we expect the new GW Age of Sigmar Rule Book to be delivered this coming week and we will ship to you ASAP. This is a pre-sale and are guaranteed to ship out within 30 days at the latest/in case of rare GW delays. Included are all the components. These items are brand new and sealed in the box. Buy with confidence - check out our feedback! "

Will the big book that we saw presales for be here 'this coming week'?

I suppose it could just fill some field with the warscrolls you want to play with only so you can go through them instead of an entire army's worth..

I guess the term "list building function" is deeper to me than "grouped warscrolls." it implies a bit of customization and designation of how many models, what equipment, and some sort of value designation. Shouldnt it just be a "army selection tool" rather than an "army building tool?" building implies that the player has to do something more than select.

Does everyone actually think going forward with this release, that gw will actually never implement balance and use it as part of this app?

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I suppose it could just fill some field with the warscrolls you want to play with only so you can go through them instead of an entire army's worth..

I guess the term "list building function" is deeper to me than "grouped warscrolls." it implies a bit of customization and designation of how many models, what equipment, and some sort of value designation. Shouldnt it just be a "army selection tool" rather than an "army building tool?" building implies that the player has to do something more than select.

Does everyone actually think going forward with this release, that gw will actually never implement balance and use it as part of this app?

At the Forge World Open they said there would never be point values, but there would be a tournament structure system they were starting to write for future events.

 pretre wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
How does one make a list building function with no balance? It would be functionally the same as the individual warscrolls if it had no balance element... Making the app and its functions redundant?

I'm sure a "list building function" and a "balance function" come somewhat hand in hand, don't they?

Pretty easy:
1 War Scroll of rune Lord
1 War Scroll of Hammerers
1 Cannon

I just built a list with no points. I imagine this is what the app will do; basically allow you to make a list of what you are bringing/have.

Possibly, I just read it differently, but I'll admit it could just be this.

Not to mention that I've purchased from Discount Games on numerous occasions and they do in fact break up battalion boxes and the like.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Age of Sigmar isn't replacing Warhammer, even if AOS hadn't existed Warhammer would've been cancelled. Age of Sigmar is a new game in the same universe.

Sure, but then if you think that when you simultaneously drop one game to start another game that the new game isn't going to get flak because the old one, you're a little bit naive.

If you didn't want the new game to get flak, then the smart thing to do would be to have some overlap and transition period or dropping the old game well before the new one instead of coming along with a big campaign with expensive books and models, not telling anyone anything for 6 months, and then coming out with a new game.

There obviously was solid business reasons they went about this. I love the people who seem to think Games Workshop Executives just sit in a board room tapping their fingers together plotting how to screw over their playerbase again.

No, we think GW executives sit there plotting how to milk the most money out of the market without considering what the current customers actually want. It's hardly a baseless thought given GW have made it clear they don't do market research and they think the "hobby" is simply buying GW products.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I suppose it could just fill some field with the warscrolls you want to play with only so you can go through them instead of an entire army's worth..

I guess the term "list building function" is deeper to me than "grouped warscrolls." it implies a bit of customization and designation of how many models, what equipment, and some sort of value designation. Shouldnt it just be a "army selection tool" rather than an "army building tool?" building implies that the player has to do something more than select.

Does everyone actually think going forward with this release, that gw will actually never implement balance and use it as part of this app?

At the Forge World Open they said there would never be point values, but there would be a tournament structure system they were starting to write for future events.

Allegedly. This is one account of FWOpen from one guy that has been redistributed. Please feel free to post if it has been independently confirmed though.

from warseer

 Mort wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:


It's been largely sour notes for the past 100 pages or so lol.

Yep, mainly from the same very-vocal 10 people. Mainly.

Make it 11.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

What about those of us that want to play mass fantasy battles and find KOW's rules to be lacking?

You currently have 3 options with differing depth / complexity:

b) KoW: Streamlined WHFB, heavy focus on tactic, by far the most tactical game of the merry bunch

"What about those of us who don't like KoW's rules?"
"Play KoW."

"Do something else.")))))))))))

guru wrote:
from warseer

Hardcover book of 264 pages in full color where we find the background of everything the happened from the events in "The End of times" to Warhammer : Age of Sigmar. 8 new scenarios , 24 Warscrolls ( thumbnail profiles ) for Stormcast eternals , Khorne Bloodbound and Sylvaneth . In Spanish. This article becomes part of the module.

From google translate.

 pretre wrote:

guru wrote:
from warseer

Hardcover book of 264 pages in full color where we find the background of everything occurrido from the events in "The End of times" to Warhammer : Age of Sigmar. 8 new scenarios , 24 Warscrolls ( thumbnail profiles ) for Stormcast eternals , Khorne Bloodbound and Sylvaneth . In Spanish. This article becomes part of the module.

From google translate.

Oo Sylvaneth are the Dryads/Treekin/Wood Elves.

Wait, so the book has no rules? at all? Just fluff and scenarios? For 90 CAD? Umm...

Seriously?

How likely is it that the blurb in spanish there doesnt accurately describe the book's contents?