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 streamdragon wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:I dont think slaanesh will get squatted, but i can see gw retconning alot of the fluff and units and realeasing new models with stronger concepts and deeper personalities than LOLGENITALS.

Considering that we still have the Slaanesh keyword for existing units, I don't see Slaanesh going anywhere either. It's possible they slowly phase Slaanesh out, ushering in a new Chaos God.

That doesn't really mean anything. They made rules for everything, even Brettonian stuff, just so people can keep using old models but they'll clearly be phasing stuff out over time.

So yeah, Slaanesh could definitely be out. And I mean why wouldn't he/she be, it's pretty obvious who GW is targeting with Age of Sigmar and you can't really sell that to kids, can you? Literally nothing is sacred with AoS.

Oh, and apparently it's all our fault because we didn't buy new 3,000+ point WHF armies every three months after 8th edition dropped. GW had to do this because WHF was a failure.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Slaanesh is being squatted because he just plain sucks and is unpopular. His models are uninteresting humanoids or animals they shove as many boobs or "totally not phalluses" on with long tongues.

Noise Marines were the only Slaanesh unit that was interesting because they embodied a form of hedonism that wasn't just sex like every other unit was. His daemons and followers have always been super subpar and nothing but the joke end of Chaos. I hope he gets squatted or rebooted into something far more interesting with some actual substance. Screw the "family friendly" vibe, nobody cares about that. His figures were just weird and uninteresting. The only "cool" daemon I ever liked of his was actually the one in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the 4 legged dark eldar looking thing.)

But go on, I'd love to hear more from someone who I obviously disagree with one thing about with. Since I can actually take opinions from people after finding they have an opposite opinion on a very niche thing.

Now, see, I happen to prefer Slaanesh. He's more than just "bewbs!!". He's also the god of perfection and skill, slightly different from Khorne's martial prowess. Notice that Sigvald is an expert swordsman and the most narcisstic character in the game. Neither are actually addressing Slaanesh's sexual portion.

In 6th WHFB, I ran a model I called the Incredible Hulk; he takes wounds, he gains attacks. He deals wounds, he can gain health up to double his starting wounds. High ward save, 1+ armor save, stubborn, he was an absolute beat stick. Required to be Slaanesh due to the Pendant of Slaanesh. I will be very disappointed if they remove Slaanesh. I'd rather see Tzeentch disappear.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Slaanesh is being squatted because he just plain sucks and is unpopular. His models are uninteresting humanoids or animals they shove as many boobs or "totally not phalluses" on with long tongues.

Noise Marines were the only Slaanesh unit that was interesting because they embodied a form of hedonism that wasn't just sex like every other unit was. His daemons and followers have always been super subpar and nothing but the joke end of Chaos. I hope he gets squatted or rebooted into something far more interesting with some actual substance. Screw the "family friendly" vibe, nobody cares about that. His figures were just weird and uninteresting. The only "cool" daemon I ever liked of his was actually the one in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the 4 legged dark eldar looking thing.)

But go on, I'd love to hear more from someone who I obviously disagree with one thing about with. Since I can actually take opinions from people after finding they have an opposite opinion on a very niche thing.

Now, see, I happen to prefer Slaanesh. He's more than just "bewbs!!". He's also the god of perfection and skill, slightly different from Khorne's martial prowess. Notice that Sigvald is an expert swordsman and the most narcisstic character in the game. Neither are actually addressing Slaanesh's sexual portion.

In 6th WHFB, I ran a model I called the Incredible Hulk; he takes wounds, he gains attacks. He deals wounds, he can gain health up to double his starting wounds. High ward save, 1+ armor save, stubborn, he was an absolute beat stick. Required to be Slaanesh due to the Pendant of Slaanesh. I will be very disappointed if they remove Slaanesh. I'd rather see Tzeentch disappear.

I like Sigvald, I really do, if more of the Slaanesh-specific stuff was like Sigvald I'd be on board.

But anytime we experience Slaanesh-based units they're usually more in the vein of his Daemonettes or all rapey than like Sigvald. I'd like to see Slaanesh-specific golden radiant self-indulgent donkey-cave Warriors actually. That'd be awesome.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:I dont think slaanesh will get squatted, but i can see gw retconning alot of the fluff and units and realeasing new models with stronger concepts and deeper personalities than LOLGENITALS.

Considering that we still have the Slaanesh keyword for existing units, I don't see Slaanesh going anywhere either. It's possible they slowly phase Slaanesh out, ushering in a new Chaos God.

That doesn't really mean anything. They made rules for everything, even Brettonian stuff, just so people can keep using old models but they'll clearly be phasing stuff out over time.

So yeah, Slaanesh could definitely be out. And I mean why wouldn't he/she be, it's pretty obvious who GW is targeting with Age of Sigmar and you can't really sell that to kids, can you? Literally nothing is sacred with AoS.

Oh, and apparently it's all our fault because we didn't buy new 3,000+ point WHF armies every three months after 8th edition dropped. GW had to do this because WHF was a failure.

Well, they didn't make rules for any unit that didn't have an existing model, regardless of that unit being in previous books. See: Skaven Warlord on a Bonebreaker. They do still make Slaaneshi daemon models, so unless they're planning on dropping the entire line, I don't imagine Slaanesh going anywhere any time soon. Like I said, it's possible they'll do a slow phase out and usher in a new Chaos God. Like you said, with AoS pretty much nothing is untouchable or sacred.

I'm just going with Occam's Razor here. A sigil shaped somewhere between a boner and a boob (depending on how you look at it) is probably not part of the plan going forward though.

Retconning away a Ruinous Power is just way, way too far. Those roots go too deep into both Fantasy and 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My guess is, GW had trouble copyrighting the traditional Slaaneshi sigil.

 Manchu wrote:
Retconning away a Ruinous Power is just way, way too far. Those roots go too deep into both Fantasy and 40k.

Like blowing up the whole world

I did hear that was some major stuff about Slaanesh runnign away in recent Eldar novel which sounded wierd. something about new Eldar god and Harlequins?

I've just had my copy of Gates of Azyr delivered to work this morning, I've only had time to read chapter one and 2, but it's not exactly a child's novel so far. Seems to be adult friendly, but not necessarily one you need to hide from the kids. Cannibalism and detailed description of how eating humans feels, but with a very heroic hero looking heroic as he speaks heroically.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Retconning away a Ruinous Power is just way, way too far. Those roots go too deep into both Fantasy and 40k.

Like blowing up the whole world

I did hear that was some major stuff about Slaanesh runnign away in recent Eldar novel which sounded wierd. something about new Eldar god and Harlequins?

Eldar Death God is stealing souls from Slaanesh and slowly building power to destroy Slaanesh or something.

The rumormill has had stuff about Slaanesh going away for awhile in 40k, last we heard was around Khorne Daemonkin, it could just be our rumormongers were getting info from AOS and thought it was 40k.

 Manchu wrote:
Retconning away a Ruinous Power is just way, way too far. Those roots go too deep into both Fantasy and 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My guess is, GW had trouble copyrighting the traditional Slaaneshi sigil.

Maybe their lawyer finally got through their skulls that you can't copyright boobs.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Slaanesh is being squatted because he just plain sucks and is unpopular. His models are uninteresting humanoids or animals they shove as many boobs or "totally not phalluses" on with long tongues.

Noise Marines were the only Slaanesh unit that was interesting because they embodied a form of hedonism that wasn't just sex like every other unit was. His daemons and followers have always been super subpar and nothing but the joke end of Chaos. I hope he gets squatted or rebooted into something far more interesting with some actual substance. Screw the "family friendly" vibe, nobody cares about that. His figures were just weird and uninteresting. The only "cool" daemon I ever liked of his was actually the one in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the 4 legged dark eldar looking thing.)

But go on, I'd love to hear more from someone who I obviously disagree with one thing about with. Since I can actually take opinions from people after finding they have an opposite opinion on a very niche thing.

Now, see, I happen to prefer Slaanesh. He's more than just "bewbs!!". He's also the god of perfection and skill, slightly different from Khorne's martial prowess. Notice that Sigvald is an expert swordsman and the most narcisstic character in the game. Neither are actually addressing Slaanesh's sexual portion.

In 6th WHFB, I ran a model I called the Incredible Hulk; he takes wounds, he gains attacks. He deals wounds, he can gain health up to double his starting wounds. High ward save, 1+ armor save, stubborn, he was an absolute beat stick. Required to be Slaanesh due to the Pendant of Slaanesh. I will be very disappointed if they remove Slaanesh. I'd rather see Tzeentch disappear.

I like Sigvald, I really do, if more of the Slaanesh-specific stuff was like Sigvald I'd be on board.

But anytime we experience Slaanesh-based units they're usually more in the vein of his Daemonettes or all rapey than like Sigvald. I'd like to see Slaanesh-specific golden radiant self-indulgent donkey-cave Warriors actually. That'd be awesome.

Can't take away my deamonettes :( I even like the current models, but GW hasn't done much interesting with any of there daemons. Outside the nostalgia I have for the lore GW, they haven't really done much with any off them.
There is plenty new stuff they could do with them all, but they choose the most basic and easy to sell.
These are the things GW should be talking about, trying to understand what they can do with the great things they have.

I despise AoS but prices seem to be standard GW except shakers and crap like that. I also despise sigmarine models but they are still 10 times better than Warmachine stuff and if the latter is indeed more expensive (didnt know that) then lololol.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Slaanesh is being squatted because he just plain sucks and is unpopular. His models are uninteresting humanoids or animals they shove as many boobs or "totally not phalluses" on with long tongues.

Noise Marines were the only Slaanesh unit that was interesting because they embodied a form of hedonism that wasn't just sex like every other unit was. His daemons and followers have always been super subpar and nothing but the joke end of Chaos. I hope he gets squatted or rebooted into something far more interesting with some actual substance. Screw the "family friendly" vibe, nobody cares about that. His figures were just weird and uninteresting. The only "cool" daemon I ever liked of his was actually the one in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (the 4 legged dark eldar looking thing.)

But go on, I'd love to hear more from someone who I obviously disagree with one thing about with. Since I can actually take opinions from people after finding they have an opposite opinion on a very niche thing.

Forge World Keeper of Secrets is an incredible model imo. Also no chaos god has any depth, Khorne is blood blood blood, Nurgle is rot rot rot and Tzeentch is plan plan plan. I love them all but can write a rant like yours about every one of them too.

Perhaps after all those delicious elven souls, Slaanesh has either evolved 'not even my final form' into something new or is slowly decaying away since elf souls are not in big supply anymore? I dunno, please dont take the god of excess away, BDSM gods have rights too.

Edit: Slaanesh has loads of cool tributes besides excess in sex:
Pain
Sound
Pride
Attention to detail
Royalty

 filbert wrote:
Damning with faint praise from Tuomas Pirinen IMO

I don't think he was praising it. He see,s to be mostly on the fence. Likes some stuff, others not so much. I think he was stepping carefully. I am sure he still has friends that work in the design studio and really, it's pretty unprofessional to bad mouth a former employer.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Perhaps after all those delicious elven souls, Slaanesh has either evolved 'not even my final form' into something new or is slowly decaying away since elf souls are not in big supply anymore? I dunno, please dont take the god of excess away, BDSM gods have rights too.

Edit: Slaanesh has loads of cool tributes besides excess in sex:
Pain
Sound
Pride
Attention to detail
Royalty

But do they ever show that in the models?

Sigvald is the only fantasy model that shows anything but that. I'd love to see like.. an army of pirate-esque fabio-like Slaanesh warriors that are wearing gleaming armor and covered in tons of gold chains and gak that look like they've been raiding every manse they can find for their own good.

Nocturnus wrote:

 filbert wrote:
Damning with faint praise from Tuomas Pirinen IMO

I don't think he was praising it. He see,s to be mostly on the fence. Likes some stuff, others not so much. I think he was stepping carefully. I am sure he still has friends that work in the design studio and really, it's pretty unprofessional to bad mouth a former employer.

Yes, that's what the phrase 'damning with faint praise' means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

In reality, the miniature wargaming business in Nottingham is very incestuous. Even those who no longer work for GW have links back to the 'Fatherland', as it were, and no-one really wants to burn bridges by publicly slagging off a former employer. Even Mantic's jibes are good natured in their humour rather than out and out antagonistic as you sometimes see between rival companies in other markets. Tuomas Pirinen, whilst I believe is no longer involved in miniature wargames any more (I think he works in software or something now) is more than likely no wishing to publicly tread on toes I think.

To be fair, I have been building up my WoC warriors of Slaanesh with a rapier held by the leader; a noble and extravagant weapon if there ever was one. I also modded the shield to be on the right arm while making a left handed swordsman, to show somebody who stood out from everyone else based on their weapon skill. Both of those are small mods, but symbolize Slaanesh's other traits.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Perhaps after all those delicious elven souls, Slaanesh has either evolved 'not even my final form' into something new or is slowly decaying away since elf souls are not in big supply anymore? I dunno, please dont take the god of excess away, BDSM gods have rights too.

Edit: Slaanesh has loads of cool tributes besides excess in sex:
Pain
Sound
Pride
Attention to detail
Royalty

But do they ever show that in the models?

Sigvald is the only fantasy model that shows anything but that. I'd love to see like.. an army of pirate-esque fabio-like Slaanesh warriors that are wearing gleaming armor and covered in tons of gold chains and gak that look like they've been raiding every manse they can find for their own good.

Yeah Sigvald is the aspect I like the most, would love to see an army based around him too.

I see the argument for khorne having no depth, but nurgle and tzeentch? Their concepts are deep on their own... You can only imagine so far about martial prowess and cutting skulls off, but diseases? Universal biology is an extremely interesting concept and disease itself is a very interesting way to fight also. Artistically, the concept they created of heavily diseased beings having immense resilience because of it is awesome, like a typhoid mary that becomes superhuman from a disease that renders other organisms extinct. Despair and hopelessness are also pretty large and prominent emotional concepts to latch onto, and can be deepened and injected into the fluff in myriad interesting and original ways.

Likewise, the concept of tzeentch controlling all events and changes in the universe is incredibly deep. The intelligence of a mind that could predict all events and twist fate to steer events is incredible... He has a part in everything. Its similar actually to the concept of a god used in traditional mythology (all knowing, all seeing, controlling all events) and leads to endless amounts of things he could be doing, could be interested in, or could have something to do with him. The amvitions of so many warlords and politicians, what they think is free will is a plan too twisted for a mortal mind to comprehend. The magic is a logical connection due to his vast intelligence and magic coming from the psyche. Literally almost any story could be written with tzeentch at the wheel in the background.. Even if none of the characters have even heard of him.

Khorne is so one dimensional he hardly has a personality. I cant even properly relate to anything he is involved with. There is only one way to put him in any sort of story and only one way to depict his apparent "theme". Angry dudes that like to chop. Really bland concept if you ask me.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
To be fair, I have been building up my WoC warriors of Slaanesh with a rapier held by the leader; a noble and extravagant weapon if there ever was one. I also modded the shield to be on the right arm while making a left handed swordsman, to show somebody who stood out from everyone else based on their weapon skill. Both of those are small mods, but symbolize Slaanesh's other traits.

See I love the idea of that.

To me, Slaanesh warriors should be kinda two-faced, at a glance they should be these kinds of guys you look at and you're like "He looks like someone who's got life figured out" and they promise you absolutely everything you could ever want.

Then you figure out they're depraved as gak and their greed and need has consumed them rotting them at the core until they're monsters.

I've always seen it as:

Khorne is power at the cost of control.
Tzeentch is knowledge at the cost of sanity.
Nurgle is immortality at the cost of health.
Slaanesh is desires at the cost of unsatiable want.

Slaanesh is actually the most in-depth of the Chaos gods, IMHO. S/he has its own backstory with the Eldar, his/her own connection with the elves in fantasy (what other chaos god can lay claim to a non-chaos faction? Or.... three factions, even!), and embodies being the best in EVERYTHING, including things that don't have to do with war like arts, music, dancing, and cooking! Khorne is all war war war and Nurgle is all plague plague plague (though it's at least possible to picture functioning nurgle societies) and Tzeentch is... basically all random (though he can have depth too), but Slaanesh goes and delves into EVERYTHING, be it fighting, dancing, crafting, torture, and of course, sex.

If you look at that last Daemon codex with the story of that Astartes that infiltrated Slaanesh's palace, you'll see he goes through 6 different trials, NO TWO OF WHICH ARE ALIKE. if he were in Khorne's citadel, it'd instead all be just "kill kill fight kill get-killed-by-khorne".

And that's probably why GW never makes any new Slaanesh things and probably why I wouldn't be too surprised if Slaanesh got squatted (though I still really doubt they'll do that)

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I see the argument for khorne having no depth, but nurgle and tzeentch? Their concepts are deep on their own... You can only imagine so far about martial prowess and cutting skulls off, but diseases? Universal biology is an extremely interesting concept and disease itself is a very interesting way to fight also. Artistically, the concept they created of heavily diseased beings having immense resilience because of it is awesome, like a typhoid mary that becomes superhuman from a disease that renders other organisms extinct. Despair and hopelessness are also pretty large and prominent emotional concepts to latch onto, and can be deepened and injected into the fluff in myriad interesting and original ways.

In theory yes. In practice, every Nurgle model seems to be a fat blob with some sores and wounds on it.

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm just going with Occam's Razor here. A sigil shaped somewhere between a boner and a boob (depending on how you look at it) is probably not part of the plan going forward though.

Are you talking about the old Slaanesh sigil? Because I didn't see that at all, it was basically just the traditional Greek (I think they're Greek, hell I don't know) symbols for "male" and "female" combined.

Which makes sense now that I think about it, kinda like trying to trademark chevrons or the Omega symbol.

 Theophony wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Retconning away a Ruinous Power is just way, way too far. Those roots go too deep into both Fantasy and 40k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My guess is, GW had trouble copyrighting the traditional Slaaneshi sigil.

Maybe their lawyer finally got through their skulls that you can't copyright boobs.

But you can copyright (trademark?) a skull, apparently, which is all the Khorne symbol is. Go figure.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Sigvald is the only fantasy model that shows anything but that. I'd love to see like.. an army of pirate-esque fabio-like Slaanesh warriors that are wearing gleaming armor and covered in tons of gold chains and gak that look like they've been raiding every manse they can find for their own good.

It would have been oddly appropriate in my mind if the Stormcast Eternals were actually followers of Slaanesh.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:

Spoiler:

I see the argument for khorne having no depth, but nurgle and tzeentch? Their concepts are deep on their own... You can only imagine so far about martial prowess and cutting skulls off, but diseases? Universal biology is an extremely interesting concept and disease itself is a very interesting way to fight also. Artistically, the concept they created of heavily diseased beings having immense resilience because of it is awesome, like a typhoid mary that becomes superhuman from a disease that renders other organisms extinct. Despair and hopelessness are also pretty large and prominent emotional concepts to latch onto, and can be deepened and injected into the fluff in myriad interesting and original ways.

Likewise, the concept of tzeentch controlling all events and changes in the universe is incredibly deep. The intelligence of a mind that could predict all events and twist fate to steer events is incredible... He has a part in everything. Its similar actually to the concept of a god used in traditional mythology (all knowing, all seeing, controlling all events) and leads to endless amounts of things he could be doing, could be interested in, or could have something to do with him. The amvitions of so many warlords and politicians, what they think is free will is a plan too twisted for a mortal mind to comprehend. The magic is a logical connection due to his vast intelligence and magic coming from the psyche. Literally almost any story could be written with tzeentch at the wheel in the background.. Even if none of the characters have even heard of him.

Khorne is so one dimensional he hardly has a personality. I cant even properly relate to anything he is involved with. There is only one way to put him in any sort of story and only one way to depict his apparent "theme". Angry dudes that like to chop. Really bland concept if you ask me.

I agree, I think there's a lot more depth to all the Chaos gods than most people are willing to look for. I think what it mainly comes down to is everyone picks their favorite and then does everything they can to justify their choice while making the others sound stupid. Which is why you have Slaanesh fans dumbing the others down to "plague, plague, plague" or "plan, plan, plan", or Khorne fans trying to make them all sound equally simplified, etc.

The biggest issue is that GW themselves dumb down the Chaos gods. Hell, IIRC, there's even a description in one of the latest new Khorne units about them not caring about honor and only caring about killing. The latest Nurgle units don't go into much of Nurgle's compassionate side, either (although the Glottkin novel does, at least). It's been a long time since we've had a Nurgle unit like the Beast of Nurgle where Nurgle's compassion was actually incorporated into its rules.

And Tzeentch and Slaanesh are almost completely ignored by GW, really.

 Sidstyler wrote:
But you can copyright (trademark?) a skull, apparently, which is all the Khorne symbol is.

Sure and the Nike Swoosh is just a check mark.

I hate that Tzeentch is so ignored.

After the super spells in 8th edition, he should have ascended to Uber God.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Perhaps after all those delicious elven souls, Slaanesh has either evolved 'not even my final form' into something new or is slowly decaying away since elf souls are not in big supply anymore? I dunno, please dont take the god of excess away, BDSM gods have rights too.

Edit: Slaanesh has loads of cool tributes besides excess in sex:
Pain
Sound
Pride
Attention to detail
Royalty

But do they ever show that in the models?

Sigvald is the only fantasy model that shows anything but that. I'd love to see like.. an army of pirate-esque fabio-like Slaanesh warriors that are wearing gleaming armor and covered in tons of gold chains and gak that look like they've been raiding every manse they can find for their own good.

I don't think they show much of there greater concepts in a lot of the demons, where are the demon Valkyries of slaanesh that come to the dead for slaanesh. Pushing mortals to greater deeds and perfection before taking all those who now belong to there God, and tempting there enemy to turn in there dying moments.

There is a lot that can be done with demons of the other gods also that GW mostly just stick with what they have come up with years before. If anything the lack of slaanesh within age of sigmar is a true won't be buying into the game.

I always hoped that araby would be the default style for Slaanesh. Silk clothes, opulent horses stuff like that. but nope.

It's either gone or going to go through a massive retcon.

 filbert wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 filbert wrote:
Damning with faint praise from Tuomas Pirinen IMO

I don't think he was praising it. He see,s to be mostly on the fence. Likes some stuff, others not so much. I think he was stepping carefully. I am sure he still has friends that work in the design studio and really, it's pretty unprofessional to bad mouth a former employer.

Yes, that's what the phrase 'damning with faint praise' means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

In reality, the miniature wargaming business in Nottingham is very incestuous. Even those who no longer work for GW have links back to the 'Fatherland', as it were, and no-one really wants to burn bridges by publicly slagging off a former employer. Even Mantic's jibes are good natured in their humour rather than out and out antagonistic as you sometimes see between rival companies in other markets. Tuomas Pirinen, whilst I believe is no longer involved in miniature wargames any more (I think he works in software or something now) is more than likely no wishing to publicly tread on toes I think.

He's a video games designer who's had had some very high positions at various studios and is now at his own studio I believe... he has completely switched careers and I couldn't see him going back, so he probably doesn't care about burning bridges. But yeah he surely has friends still there. Mostly I think he's just not a hyperbolic rageaholic.

It seems strange, the chaos gods are a well of potential IP capitalization that never gets the attention they deserve. They could do alot more really. I imagine chaos armies are fairly popular, and their owners probably mostly feel like the concepts go beyond the sculpts and gw-fluff.

I imagine thats a healthy wad of cash to just ignore and lazy-away.

If Slaanesh does get captured, and the WD hint seems to suggest that (someone was saying the WD contains info about Sigmar being the one who captured the Prince.) I'd easily say its more of the narrative setup kinda thing, where they'll have him captured then get free and corrupt some Sigmarines or something.

Seems like cool story potential to me.