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Which one is best? He has a Sigil of Corruption, so Tzeentch for 3++ inv. save? Or Slaanesh for I6 so he strikes before Space Marine Captains and Chapter Masters? Or Nurgle for +1T and generally higher resilience toward any incoming hits? Or Khorne for Rage and Counter Attack which the latter he can confer to the entire squad he is attached to?

Spose it really depends on what his role will be in the army, as well as what army he is facing, or if you intend to say screw tactics and stick with a theme :p

I feel Slaanesh, despite being the theme I've started with my newly hatched Chaos army is the weaker of the bunch. It's not terrible, but if you intend to make your Lord a power fist toting machine, then it's a useless upgrade. But if he is going in with basic power weaponry, giving that extra +1 Initiative is great for hopefully taking out other non power fist equipped Masters.

Nurgle I feel is one of the best. +1T is a pretty big deal, unless you're fighting a power fisted enemy, then you'll probly not care either way. At best, it may keep you from getting ID though, so still useful.

Khorne I always felt was one of the weaker of the bunch, though still better than Slaanesh under most circumstances. Counter Attack is still decent to deter someone from charging you, basically making charging or getting charged equally desirable. Rage is iffy. Depends on the army your facing.

Tzeentch is good for the extra Invul to make you more resilient in the end. Simple and effective.

At the end of the day, three of the four Marks are intended for use if you get into CC. If you don't intend for that, just get the MoTzeentch and call it a day :p

They all have thier strengths. But on a lord, its not just the effect of the mark, but the units the mark unlocks, and the units that the mark allows you to join.

Mark of nurgle is decent, but plaguemarines as troops and the ability to ride with nurgle spawn is exellent.

However nurgle lack of a cavalry mount is a bit of a shame, but a bike suffices.

Personally I prefer the MoK. Simply because it unlocks a Juggernaut and the Axe of Blind Fury. Giving a silly amount of high-mid strength ap2 at initiative attacks for stupidly cheap on a fast platform as well as adding to durability.

Ah. I had forgotten about the ID protection. I guess Nurgle really is everyone's favorite.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Ah. I had forgotten about the ID protection. I guess Nurgle really is everyone's favorite.

Nurgle loves and protects his followers :p

Nurgle is so good simply because its a flat stat increase that does the most without needing a specific condition for it be useful. Mark of Khorne mainly relies on you being charged or you charging, afterwards it doesn't do anything so its a 1st turn of combat benefit at most. The Mark of Slaanesh isn't used to its highest potential since there aren't any initiative AP2 weapons that they have access to. You also overpay against many xenos models that are I2 or lower like Tau, Orks, or Necrons. The Mark of Tzzentch is arguably the most situational since it requires you to have an invulnerable save to even stomach paying for its benefit. Furthermore, it does absolutely nothing against things that don't ignore your armour so in many cases given this edition's focus on low AP high S attacks he'll get killed more often than not by torrent of fire. Honestly, I wish they would just swap the bonuses of Daemons of Tzzentch with the Mark of Tzzentch since the Daemons would benefit more from the Mark given that they all come built in with a 5+ invuln.stock, unlike CSM, and the re-rolling 1's for all saves would actually make it a viable choice for chaos terminators and normal CSM troops.

I'd consider Tzeentch the weakest because while he has a 3++, he doesn't excel at anything nor does he have any utility. The best outcome you're likely to get is rolling a Disc, Powerfist and Daemonheart around with some Chaos Spawn protection. Thousand Sons are not good enough to justify the Lord on top of their already-silly pricetag.

Slaanesh probably comes in third because the Mark is pretty useless on him, but Noise Marines are a decent unit to have around. The gap between I5 and I6 is largely irrelevant unless you are fighting enemy HQ pieces. At that point, you'll want an AP2 weapon and Slaanesh lacks any that still allow that I6 in the first place. He provides a benefit as a duellist but removes any chance of a suitable weapon to complement it.
If you want Slaanesh, take a Steed for an Outflanking blob somewhere and spam out Blastmasters.

Second I'd say Nurgle because T6 is a big, big jump over T5. I'd always run him as Crimson Slaughter because if you want to tank out, may as well go all the way with a decent save. Always on a Bike, always with a Spawn or Bike retinue, and probably want FistiClaws for some punch. Plague Marines are probably a worse option than cheap Cultists but still remain a fair option if you haven't given up Power Armour entirely.

This leaves Khorne as the best IMO, and it's almost entirely because of the Axe. A S6, AP2, at-Initiative wrecker of a weapon that gives you a clear purpose and a fair cost. Get him a Juggernaut, a Sigil and some Spawn to protect him and enjoy your new wrecking crew. The Axe is also the reason I'd run him from the stock book instead of Crimson Slaughter or Daemonkin.

A Lord is fighting for points with the Sorcerer, and I'd say he has 2 reasons to be chosen; The Cult unit he provides, and his ability to beat face with a high Movement speed. If you are not maximising either of these benefits, you're probably better off with a Sorcerer for the added flexibility.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Personally I prefer the MoK. Simply because it unlocks a Juggernaut and the Axe of Blind Fury. Giving a silly amount of high-mid strength ap2 at initiative attacks for stupidly cheap on a fast platform as well as adding to durability.

I do agree that MoK is mainly useful for unlocking the Axe and the Juggernaut which is arguably the most badass way to let your general ride into battle. Khorne wins by style points.



Comes in at 170 points, has 7 attacks on charge, all of them S6 AP2 at I5, but sadly only WS5. Toughness the same as on Chaos Bike, without the jinking capability though but you do get an extra wound to top it off. 3+/4++ is nothing special, but for the points cost and speed this HQ is a real facewrecker.

Even better than that - more than 7 attacks usually. 3 + 1 + 2 + d6. Averaging 9.5 attacks. I wish I had that model - I have the tiny 2nd/3rd ed juggerlord.

Ain't that the truth.

Oops forgot the juggers extra attack. So average of 10.5.
Also worth noting that if run with bikes instead of spawn, the attacks with icon of wrath can be at st7.

MoN helps prevent being ID'd, which is a big issue if you have a warlord that wants to be up at the enemy. Plus it unlocks the best Cult Marine option. It's easily the best option.

MoK and MoT I kinda consider even, as the Juggerlord hits hard and the MoT gives access to the Disc, which is actually pretty decent all things considered. It does better in the Crimson Slaughter though when you can have the Artificer Armor too. Neither unlock good troops though.

MoS has a decent steed but overall it's the weakest mark for the Lord, but unlocks the best Cult Marine option after Plague Marines.

Depends on your needs.

If you want to outflank something without Cypher, MoS and steed is the way to go. 20 slaanesh marines with fnp outflanking with accute sences is nothing to scoff at. Besides, ini6 is nice for a lightning claw and sweeping advances.

MoK if you want a Jugger Axe lord - he's brutal and his only real weakness compared to other marks is less durable convoy and a chance to fall flat on his own axe 1/6 of the time.

MoT if you want a 3++ but imo +1 toughness from MoN is often better if you prefer durability. Besides, Nurgle opens up one of the most point-efficient convoy - t6 spawns and bikers. I recall some combos with a disc lord but he costs 200+ pts which is not great for a mid-of-the road beatstick.

Slaanesh can provide a good lord if you take Crimson Slaughter and a slaaneshi biker gang with the IoE. That's potentially a 2+/4++ with FNP and IWND. Just gotta watch out S10 weaponry.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MoK and MoT I kinda consider even, as the Juggerlord hits hard and the MoT gives access to the Disc, which is actually pretty decent all things considered. It does better in the Crimson Slaughter though when you can have the Artificer Armor too. Neither unlock good troops though.

MoT on a Chaos Lord doesnt unlock ANY troops. MoT on a sorcerer unlocks Tsons.

Zerkers arent great, but they are much better than Tsons

 King Pariah wrote:
Slaanesh can provide a good lord if you take Crimson Slaughter and a slaaneshi biker gang with the IoE. That's potentially a 2+/4++ with FNP and IWND. Just gotta watch out S10 weaponry.

That's the way I run mine. The fact that my Blastmaster NMs are Troops with ObSec is another important benefit.

Question, does the Disc of Tzeentch provide +1 T due to turning your Character into a Jetbike?

yep.

 Exergy wrote:
Zerkers arent great, but they are much better than Tsons

wut? zerkers are useless until they reach cc. and for that you need to invest more points into a transport for them as well. tsons hit hard with AP3 bolters and you dont need any cover for them either and as a small bonus tau cant deny them their saves.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Zerkers arent great, but they are much better than Tsons

wut? zerkers are useless until they reach cc. and for that you need to invest more points into a transport for them as well. tsons hit hard with AP3 bolters and you dont need any cover for them either and as a small bonus tau cant deny them their saves.

I lol'd at "hit hard". For the points they're putting out less damage compared to an equivalent amount of Chaos Space Marines.

Thousand Sons are ... okay for their price. The issue is the psyker tax. I'd pay the 23 points a dude to bring more, but having to spend roughly 60 points extra per squad because the sgt. is a 1-wound Sorcerer is annoying. If they made the Aspiring Sorcerer who comes with the squad 2 wounds, they'd be fine for the price. Highly specific, but fine.

Well, and made it so they weren't forced into taking Tzeentch discipline. If you don't roll Doombolt, you don't get use out of the psyker level.

1000 sons get a sorc that has 1/3 chance of getting a potent s8 ap1 beam. And a force axe / mace can accidentally screw your opponent's plans as noone's expecting much killiness from 1000 sons. They're that bad. Just a bit overpriced.
Besides, they're a good retinue to Ahriman. And Ahriman is actually one of the best warlords to run blobs of marines due to infiltrate.

 koooaei wrote:
1000 sons get a sorc that has 1/3 chance of getting a potent s8 ap1 beam. And a force axe / mace can accidentally screw your opponent's plans as noone's expecting much killiness from 1000 sons. They're that bad. Just a bit overpriced.
Besides, they're a good retinue to Ahriman. And Ahriman is actually one of the best warlords to run blobs of marines due to infiltrate.

really think Huron is much better at that. I also dont see Tsons being a good retinue for anyone, particularly Ahriman. T4 3+ saves. Very vunerable to dakka. Also Tsons are terrible in assault, and if Ahriman is your warlord that makes one very temping unit to assault. nearly 600 points that will get pushed over by a stiff breeze. At least they are fearless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
Zerkers arent great, but they are much better than Tsons

wut? zerkers are useless until they reach cc. and for that you need to invest more points into a transport for them as well. tsons hit hard with AP3 bolters and you dont need any cover for them either and as a small bonus tau cant deny them their saves.

I lol'd at "hit hard". For the points they're putting out less damage compared to an equivalent amount of Chaos Space Marines.

Yeah, Chaos has AP3 ozzing out of every corner. And a lot of it ignores cover. Why you would want to spend so many points for AP3 bolters is beyond me.


Zerkers are CC troops. And CC isnt great. But they are credible CC troops. WS5 Str5 4A on the charge with built in fearless.

I dont take either, but would consider putting 60 zerkers on the field in a friendly game.

They all have their place, but MoK is the most fun for lords in my book. That said, I have multiple lords and sorcerors, so I can run whatever I feel, or even 2 lords with different marks and loadouts. My favorite way is MoK lord with daemon weapon getting right in the opponent's face as fast as possible.

MoN is the best as long as your Lord is T4, once he gets T5 due to a bike/jugger/disk, you can play with the mark, there are way too much S8 /9 stuff out there that could instakill your lord

Most of the time I go with MoK juggy or MoN biker.

As mentioned above the juggy is a killing beast as long as he doesn't roll 1's on his daemon weapon, however having WS5 is such a terrible drawback, there are lots of elite units that have WS5 and that crushes your effectiveness against such units making you hit on 4's and against other similar HQ's leaves you being hit on 3's.

The MoN one is a lot more resilient warlord and will rarely die, with T6 3+/4++ 3 wounds decking him with a power fist usually allows him to survive and deliver some powerful blows back at his enemy, plus it gives you access to blight grenades which are awesome.

In 7th where any units can take objectives he isn't as sweet as it was on 6th, since you could just get some plague marines as elites with a MoK lord and still get hold of the objectives. You won't have objective secure but still you get a tough unit to stay on objectives rapid firing.

 Exergy wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
1000 sons get a sorc that has 1/3 chance of getting a potent s8 ap1 beam. And a force axe / mace can accidentally screw your opponent's plans as noone's expecting much killiness from 1000 sons. They're that bad. Just a bit overpriced.
Besides, they're a good retinue to Ahriman. And Ahriman is actually one of the best warlords to run blobs of marines due to infiltrate.

really think Huron is much better at that. I also dont see Tsons being a good retinue for anyone, particularly Ahriman. T4 3+ saves. Very vunerable to dakka. Also Tsons are terrible in assault, and if Ahriman is your warlord that makes one very temping unit to assault. nearly 600 points that will get pushed over by a stiff breeze. At least they are fearless.

That was unexpected for me, to be honest, but having used both Huron and Ahriman, i find Ahriman to be better in infiltration lists - especially with daemon summon support - Pink horrors and herald. He has extra 3 ML, and fixed powers.
Tsons are not half bad. Also, there are 20 marines with Cypher pushing forward, so it's not like the opponent has enough spare firepower to chew through 3+ 4++ marines somewhere in the backline hidden behind a rhino.

How does the Tson sorc have a 1/3 chance to roll doombolt? Isnt it 1/6?

 koooaei wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
1000 sons get a sorc that has 1/3 chance of getting a potent s8 ap1 beam. And a force axe / mace can accidentally screw your opponent's plans as noone's expecting much killiness from 1000 sons. They're that bad. Just a bit overpriced.
Besides, they're a good retinue to Ahriman. And Ahriman is actually one of the best warlords to run blobs of marines due to infiltrate.

I also dont see Tsons being a good retinue for anyone, particularly Ahriman. T4 3+ saves. Very vunerable to dakka. Also Tsons are terrible in assault, and if Ahriman is your warlord that makes one very temping unit to assault. nearly 600 points that will get pushed over by a stiff breeze. At least they are fearless.

Tsons are not half bad. Also, there are 20 marines with Cypher pushing forward, so it's not like the opponent has enough spare firepower to chew through 3+ 4++ marines somewhere in the backline hidden behind a rhino.

600 points with 24" rapid fire guns sitting in the backfield behind a rhino? Seems like a waste. And you can still unload autocannons, splintercannons, serpant shields, lootas whatnot at them. Cover doesnt help a unit with an innate 4++, it just hampers them from doing their job.

 Sir Arun wrote:
How does the Tson sorc have a 1/3 chance to roll doombolt? Isnt it 1/6?

There's only 3 spells.