Would Space Marines Be Vegans?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**natpri771**

Since they gain the memory of everything they eat. If they ate a steak, would it not be kid of an inconvenience to gain all of the cow's memories? If so, this would probably lead them to eat things that didn't have memories, like plants. So, would this mean that they would have a vegan diet?

**Thatguyhsagun**

IIRC its primarily the brain they gain memories from eating, and its not total recall of every event in a person/animals life. Its flashes, a few hours or days worth. In any case, most marines eat a synthesized paste when on deployment and usually at home as well, with a few exceptions. BA and Wolves eat native animals but these are rare and a delicacy for BA.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Actually the Emperor Children's likely do give any kind of weird animals tons of aphrodisiac and let them reproduce before eating them to gain all the memories. They are freaky like that.

**Flame-Rage**

I would assume they wouldn't gain the memories of any non-intelligent/sentient creature. If they did, then one assumption would be that they only gain these memories if they willingly activate the gland, instead of it being an involuntary sense such as smell

**2BlackJack1**

Yeah, they get the memories from the brain, and I don't even know if it would work on a non sentient animal. The eating doesn't go as in depth as a kroot, for example, who need to eat sentient beings to stay sentient. Anyway, space marines rarely if ever get a chance to eat something as exquisite as a steak, instead going for the delicious, cheaper choice of paste for their entire existence as a space marine. Excluding space wolves, who work hard and party harder.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Flame-Rage wrote:
I would assume they wouldn't gain the memories of any non-intelligent/sentient creature.

Where would you draw the line, though? Monkeys ? Dogs ? Birds ? Fish ? Jellyfish ?
(For reference, monkeys can for instance understand abstract concept such as unfairness, use tools, …)

**mitch_rifle**

I think it'd be something they could switch on/off

**lcmiracle**

mitch_rifle wrote:
I think it'd be something they could switch on/off

Yes, by not deliberately eat brains. I'd think it has to be a fresh one too, but hey, who knows what some writers may believe. Some might make it so when a SM eats another SM's brain, whom had ate a cannibal's brain, whom again ate another's, the last ingestor would have the memories of all those he ate combined.

And thus a new CSM warband was born, obessed with acquiring others' memories. Can be either Slaaneshi or Tzeentch, I guess.

**2BlackJack1**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Flame-Rage wrote:
I would assume they wouldn't gain the memories of any non-intelligent/sentient creature.

Where would you draw the line, though? Monkeys ? Dogs ? Birds ? Fish ? Jellyfish ?
(For reference, monkeys can for instance understand abstract concept such as unfairness, use tools, …)

Well, the definition of sentient is "the ability to percieve/feel things", so technically monkeys would be sentient. So pretty much, anything that can grasp at the thoughts of emotions, or other similar concepts would technically be sentient then, I guess.

**PrehistoricUFO**

I doubt such large men who are extremely muscle-dense at 8% body fat (stage-ready at all times in modern professional bodybuilding, basically) could maintain that size eating vegetables - unless they had some kind of very calorie and protein-dense paste to supplement their diet with.

Currently, Phil Heath (Mr. Olympia defending champ) has said he eats 8 - 9,000 calories daily, and he's a normal human who uses special help to get that big. Imagine a Space Marine, made in a lab who is enormous in every way imaginable and has ridiculous physical capabilities/fitness routines/organ performance. Their maintenance needs calorie-wise would be in the 20 thousands easily, and their macronutrients (protein/fat/carbs) would be in the thousands of grams daily.

No way they could achieve that off vegetables. They'd wither to nothing in months. Yeah, they could go some time before needing calories/proteins as they're conditioned to (as we saw in Dead Sky, Black Sun), but they'd regularly need fantastic amounts.

**AnomanderRake**

Depends on the Space Marines. I don't see Space Wolves giving up their meat, but the variety of worlds and cultures in the Imperium is such that there's bound to be a Space Marine Chapter that recruits from a vegetarian world.

As to physical plausibility I'm not an authority on the subject by any means but I don't think running a Space Marine on nuts, grains, and vegetables is that far-fetched.

**Veteran Sergeant**

It's most probable that the typical Space Marine diet is mostly synthetic in nature. I mean, we're talking about a civilization that has mastered space travel and biological engineering. So this would likely something that was protein rich.

If a Space Marine were "vegan", it wouldn't be in the manner we consider vegan. It would be solely because his diet was entirely synthetic in nature (thus requiring no actual animals) rather than plant and animal based like ours are.

**Spetulhu**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If a Space Marine were "vegan", it wouldn't be in the manner we consider vegan. It would be solely because his diet was entirely synthetic in nature (thus requiring no actual animals) rather than plant and animal based like ours are.

This. A Space Marine is a huge muscular guy, and he needs a lot of calories just to stay a huge muscular guy even without any activity. A regular old bodybuilder that we see on the TV needs twice or more the stuff one of us uses while sitting in front of the computer writing WH40K opinions. It's actually work for these men just to eat enough to maintain their sculpted bodies. They need a lot of protein and fat to keep those muscles running even if they're not doing anything.

**EmpNortonII**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Depends on the Space Marines. I don't see Space Wolves giving up their meat, but the variety of worlds and cultures in the Imperium is such that there's bound to be a Space Marine Chapter that recruits from a vegetarian world.

In contrast, Ultramarines are probably well-accustomed to getting their protein by closing their eyes and sucking it out of a hose.

**chromedog**

If they were vegans, you'd know about it - they wouldn't stop telling you.

**Polonius**

There are a couple of references in codexes about Space Marine diets. In particular, the 3rd edition codex had a daily schedule for marines, which specified that their midday meal was often something either normal humans could not eat or an animal they killed that morning. It also mentions that the evening meal was more protien rich.

While Marines can be highly ritualistic, they are probably the most pragmatic aspect of the IoM. I really doubt that a society that sees no problem with enormous violence against humans would have a problem with eating animals.

**2BlackJack1**

They can eat a brain to get some insight on the previous owner of the brain. Eating an animal isn't really a problem.

**Exergy**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Flame-Rage wrote:
I would assume they wouldn't gain the memories of any non-intelligent/sentient creature.

Where would you draw the line, though? Monkeys ? Dogs ? Birds ? Fish ? Jellyfish ?
(For reference, monkeys can for instance understand abstract concept such as unfairness, use tools, …)

Yeah the line for man is that he can construct compound tools. Like an ax. Sharp weighted bit attached to strong lever bit makes better tool.

An ape can use an ax, and they can make a club. They cannot make a hammer. That is a lot of intelligence already.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spetulhu wrote:
Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If a Space Marine were "vegan", it wouldn't be in the manner we consider vegan. It would be solely because his diet was entirely synthetic in nature (thus requiring no actual animals) rather than plant and animal based like ours are.

This. A Space Marine is a huge muscular guy, and he needs a lot of calories just to stay a huge muscular guy even without any activity. A regular old bodybuilder that we see on the TV needs twice or more the stuff one of us uses while sitting in front of the computer writing WH40K opinions. It's actually work for these men just to eat enough to maintain their sculpted bodies. They need a lot of protein and fat to keep those muscles running even if they're not doing anything.

I think in the grim dark furture of the 41st milenium, there is probably a bit of a food shortage. Supporting all those planets with trillions and trillions of people and the IoM current state of poverty a lot of people probably go under nourished. With beans providing more protein than livestock, I bet a lot of the imperium tend towards veg.

Also, the caloric intake of a space marine would be enormous. They would probably eat and crap like elephants, even if they were consuming something high in calories, like say pure vegetable oil.

**Deadshot**

Doubtful. Meat has huge amounts of protein compared to other foods, and on the occassions where your average Marine eats anything other than a nutrient slurry, they would be wolfing down 48oz Grox steaks like its nothing.
And no, they wouldn't even care about the animal's feelings. The animal has 1 purpose and that is to feed the Astartes so they may serve the Emperor, and crying about the dead animal will change nothing except your fluid and salt levels.

**Gashrog**

They can gain memories from non-Sentients, or at least they could in earlier fluff:

Ian Watson's Space Marine wrote: Implant of the Omophagea followed, so that a Marine could learn from what he ate, absorbing some memories from the molecules in his meal of beast or sapient enemy. During a further feast, each cadet had to announce some details of the inner nature of his disguised nourishment.

On this occasion, Biff Tundrish arose and shut his eyes tight to concentrate. Those eyes, like two green beetles which a squirming tattooed spider had now digested…

“I have four nimble legs,” he announced, an eerie whinny in his voice – and Lexandro almost sniggered. Four nimble legs on either side, perhaps? Had they stewed up a supper of some giant arachnid for Tundrish? But no, for the ex-scumnik continued: “I yearn to run across wide grasslands with a rider on my back, my tail pluming in the wind. Yet I am so little and I live behind hard iron bars, eating synthoats…”

“That creature is known as a horse,” confirmed the chief adept, consulting his annotated menu codex. “In this case it is a dwarf specimen, cage-bred for succulence. It dreams its genetic past.”

Yeremi Valence reported that his meal had swum in foetid swamps beneath a blue sun. Its many teeth were sharp; so was its appetite. Its tail was long and armoured. Its thoughts were red with blood.

**Keep**

chromedog wrote:
If they were vegans, you'd know about it - they wouldn't stop telling you.

They can gain memories from non-Sentients, or at least they could in earlier fluff:

Well i dont think that its all that usefull all the time though... imagine a fly, which forgets that it flew against a wall after 1s or so... the information that it flew against a wall just isnt there anymore, its not stored. So it requires species that can actually remember things (so that its actually stored inside the brain). Personally i find this brain eating memory thing SM have kinda stupid. Particulary eating - you're destroying part of it already by biting a chunk out of it.
Is this actually used in novels? Does anybody know of any story? Because i feel half of the time, they'd just have to eat some brain and thats it, they know everything over the enemy and can beat them... it would be a giant plotkiller imo if they used it.

**Deadshot**

The brain is always recording (except when blackout drunk), so even if a creature forgets, conciously, subconciously, the data is still there.

Its a useful skill for interrogation. Imagine trying to torture an Eldar or Tau for information and them refusing. Space Marine takes a leg of Tau and suddenly has all the info. Location, defences, and the memories won't lie. Not to mention the psychological impact of watching a huge alien (alien to Xenos) creature chopping off parts of you, or your friends, and knowing things you were trying to hide

**Veteran Sergeant**

Exergy wrote:I think in the grim dark furture of the 41st milenium, there is probably a bit of a food shortage.

This hasn't ever really been suggested. There are two things commonly referred to in the fluff. One is various kinds of agrifacilities. These could easily be growing synthetic foods that were meat substitutes. The other are agriplanets where the entire planet just grows crops or livestock to feed other planets.

The grim darkness of the far future doesn't eat like us. Food probably isn't exciting, but there's never really been any suggestion of widespread food shortages. There's not always a plausible explanation of how it works, lol. But that's because logistics and infrastructure are boring, complicated topics.

**Rippy**

Servitor, bring me my nutrient paste at the double!

**Grey Templar**

You only gain memories if you eat the, very fresh, brain tissue.

And no, Space Marines would not be able to be vegans. They could not maintain their caloric needs on a plant based diet. They would need to eat copious amounts of fats and protein, and the density of those in plant foods is far too low. They'd actually waste away if they only ate beans and rice as they'd be physically incapable of eating enough fast enough to meet the demand. Its why people on arctic expeditions have to melt whole sticks of butter in their coffee, they'd never have enough raw calories if they didn't gorge on the most nutrient dense foods, and marines would need even more. They'd probably be making shakes out of pure ground muscle and fat to have enough calories. The scenes in the Space Wolf omnibus of the one Wolf Blade always raiding the food stores was intended as humor, but it was a fairly accurate portrayal.

And even feelings and memories wouldn't make you want to not eat the animal. The memories would also be quite fleeting and vague. I wouldn't care if I had memories of what a cow was doing.

**ChazSexington**

PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I doubt such large men who are extremely muscle-dense at 8% body fat (stage-ready at all times in modern professional bodybuilding, basically) could maintain that size eating vegetables - unless they had some kind of very calorie and protein-dense paste to supplement their diet with.

Currently, Phil Heath (Mr. Olympia defending champ) has said he eats 8 - 9,000 calories daily, and he's a normal human who uses special help to get that big. Imagine a Space Marine, made in a lab who is enormous in every way imaginable and has ridiculous physical capabilities/fitness routines/organ performance. Their maintenance needs calorie-wise would be in the 20 thousands easily, and their macronutrients (protein/fat/carbs) would be in the thousands of grams daily.

No way they could achieve that off vegetables. They'd wither to nothing in months. Yeah, they could go some time before needing calories/proteins as they're conditioned to (as we saw in Dead Sky, Black Sun), but they'd regularly need fantastic amounts.

I'm currently cutting, coming off a 3700 cal bulk.

Space Marines probably live off weight gainer and vitamins. MyProtein is the biggest corporation in the entire Imperium.

**PrehistoricUFO**

ChazSexington wrote:
PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I doubt such large men who are extremely muscle-dense at 8% body fat (stage-ready at all times in modern professional bodybuilding, basically) could maintain that size eating vegetables - unless they had some kind of very calorie and protein-dense paste to supplement their diet with.

Currently, Phil Heath (Mr. Olympia defending champ) has said he eats 8 - 9,000 calories daily, and he's a normal human who uses special help to get that big. Imagine a Space Marine, made in a lab who is enormous in every way imaginable and has ridiculous physical capabilities/fitness routines/organ performance. Their maintenance needs calorie-wise would be in the 20 thousands easily, and their macronutrients (protein/fat/carbs) would be in the thousands of grams daily.

No way they could achieve that off vegetables. They'd wither to nothing in months. Yeah, they could go some time before needing calories/proteins as they're conditioned to (as we saw in Dead Sky, Black Sun), but they'd regularly need fantastic amounts.

I'm currently cutting, coming off a 3700 cal bulk.

Space Marines probably live off weight gainer and vitamins. MyProtein is the biggest corporation in the entire Imperium.

3700 cals huh, mirin huge meals.

I'm not into the whole bulk/cut cycle, it's hard on the skin with stretch marks and I don't wanna lose my dope body in the name of fast muscle mass.

I prefer to stay lean year round, eat slightly above my maintenance and slowly build mass. Keeps the skin mint condition and you don't go through awkward phases of being tubby and then starving yourself to lose it all before summer. :p

I know everyone's goals with their physique differ, I don't particularly obsess over my lifts for example, whereas others are always chasing those numbers and don't actually care about appearance only how many plates they stack haha.

@topic

As some have said, it is possible for them to survive off some nuts and grains because those are calorically dense and typically have good macros, but they'd be doing nothing else except eating all day, that's it.

Sort of like how enormous herbivores maintain their ridiculous sizes - they graze basically every waking minute.

"THEY ARE THE ULTIMATE BUFFET WARRIORS. UNLEASHED UPON THE FOOD INDUSTRY TO COMBAT RUTHLESS WASTE. THEY ARE: THE ADEPTUS MUSTFEEDMES."

**ChazSexington**

PrehistoricUFO wrote:

3700 cals huh, mirin huge meals.

I'm not into the whole bulk/cut cycle, it's hard on the skin with stretch marks and I don't wanna lose my dope body in the name of fast muscle mass.

I prefer to stay lean year round, eat slightly above my maintenance and slowly build mass. Keeps the skin mint condition and you don't go through awkward phases of being tubby and then starving yourself to lose it all before summer. :p

I know everyone's goals with their physique differ, I don't particularly obsess over my lifts for example, whereas others are always chasing those numbers and don't actually care about appearance only how many plates they stack haha.

@topic

As some have said, it is possible for them to survive off some nuts and grains because those are calorically dense and typically have good macros, but they'd be doing nothing else except eating all day, that's it.

Sort of like how enormous herbivores maintain their ridiculous sizes - they graze basically every waking minute.

"THEY ARE THE ULTIMATE BUFFET WARRIORS. UNLEASHED UPON THE FOOD INDUSTRY TO COMBAT RUTHLESS WASTE. THEY ARE: THE ADEPTUS MUSTFEEDMES."

3700 isn't that much really, my maintenance is around 2700 (Cut is only 2200). I switch my diet around a bit; cutting is porridge and a shake for breakfast, bulkan is eggs, bread, weight gainer etc. I usually don't go too overboard though. Neither of these are what some of my friends do - 5000-7000 calories and stuff.

But glad to see I'm not the only one wondering about SM metabolism. Their resting caloric requirements are gonna be incredibly high. I feel sorry for those rules who invited Astartes to a feast during the Great Crusade.

**Psienesis**

I would imagine that the standard rations of a Space Marine is some chemical conglomeration absolutely packed full of carbs (both simple and complex), proteins, vitamins and minerals that probably looks similar to toothpaste and has quotations around its flavor description.

Such as "Nutrient Paste 84483-DB2234: Breakfast, 'Eggs' and 'Bacon' Flavor".

**Grey Templar**

ChazSexington wrote:
PrehistoricUFO wrote:

3700 cals huh, mirin huge meals.

I'm not into the whole bulk/cut cycle, it's hard on the skin with stretch marks and I don't wanna lose my dope body in the name of fast muscle mass.

I prefer to stay lean year round, eat slightly above my maintenance and slowly build mass. Keeps the skin mint condition and you don't go through awkward phases of being tubby and then starving yourself to lose it all before summer. :p

I know everyone's goals with their physique differ, I don't particularly obsess over my lifts for example, whereas others are always chasing those numbers and don't actually care about appearance only how many plates they stack haha.

@topic

As some have said, it is possible for them to survive off some nuts and grains because those are calorically dense and typically have good macros, but they'd be doing nothing else except eating all day, that's it.

Sort of like how enormous herbivores maintain their ridiculous sizes - they graze basically every waking minute.

"THEY ARE THE ULTIMATE BUFFET WARRIORS. UNLEASHED UPON THE FOOD INDUSTRY TO COMBAT RUTHLESS WASTE. THEY ARE: THE ADEPTUS MUSTFEEDMES."

3700 isn't that much really, my maintenance is around 2700 (Cut is only 2200). I switch my diet around a bit; cutting is porridge and a shake for breakfast, bulkan is eggs, bread, weight gainer etc. I usually don't go too overboard though. Neither of these are what some of my friends do - 5000-7000 calories and stuff.

But glad to see I'm not the only one wondering about SM metabolism. Their resting caloric requirements are gonna be incredibly high. I feel sorry for those rules who invited Astartes to a feast during the Great Crusade.

Yeah. 3700 is easily achieved if you are exercising at all and you're a 6ish ft guy.

If you are seriously exercising, you can easily push 5-6000.

Space Marines are likely in the 15-20,000 range without exercising.