Switch Theme:

Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Solar Shock wrote:
Minijack wrote:

2-Bombing run takes place before intercept fire and is placed anywere along the move path,so any target up to 32" from the edge.

3-The Bombing run is NOT a shooting attack so NO JINK against it,unless the target has an invuln its pretty much dead models on a 2+

And finally,when the plane is shot at you can jink at will and still drop the other bomb the next turn,,.because of the non shooting attack status of the bombing run as above.


Can someone confirm these for me??
In this wording, would the deffcopta bomb also be unjinkable?

Also, Can I leave the board and drop a bomb? So like this;
Arrive from reserves - Move onto table and drop bomb,
Move off table edge - drop bomb?


Yep, all is true. You can even target invisible units with a bomb as it's not a shooting attack.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa





oh man! blitza bomba's it is!
I am making up the 5 flyer formation, So will need to make them magnetisable as 5 blitza bombas...

oh yeh hey 3 deepstriking falcons.... heres my 5 Str7 AP2 large blasts with armourbane! ohhh dear! im getting all giddy with excitement!

Shame you can't alter the formation to 5 bombas;

Regaining one use weapons would mean that if you come in turn 2, leave turn 3, come back in turn 2 and leave turn 4, and come back in turn 5 you'd get an outrageous number of bombs!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 07:05:44


Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Think you'd be better off running them out of formations.

I'm also a bit skeptical bout bombers. Eldar can always keep 2" coherency and small squads allow them to simply line up - means you'll cover 3 models at best. Remember, all eldar can run + shoot or shoot + run and they run 6" all the time now. And bombs also scatter. Besides, you won't be able to bomb anything the turn you arrive unless they're in your deployment zone. Besides, you need to ensure that you arrive in time - means you'll need comms relay or struggle to not get tabled if the arrive's delayed. Besides, 5 planes are hard to maneuvre as they're very unwieldy. We don't have vector-dancer like eldar have, you know.

Anywayz, if you wana bring lots of flyers, i'd also take comms relay as it's 1/3 of your army in reserves. Besides, aegis or bunker will help you endure the first 1-2 turns a bit better.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 07:46:13


 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa





 koooaei wrote:
Think you'd be better off running them out of formations.

I'm also a bit skeptical bout bombers. Eldar can always keep 2" coherency and small squads allow them to simply line up - means you'll cover 3 models at best. Remember, all eldar can run + shoot or shoot + run and they run 6" all the time now. And bombs also scatter. Besides, you won't be able to bomb anything the turn you arrive unless they're in your deployment zone. Besides, you need to ensure that you arrive in time - means you'll need comms relay or struggle to not get tabled if the arrive's delayed. Besides, 5 planes are hard to maneuvre as they're very unwieldy. We don't have vector-dancer like eldar have, you know.

Anywayz, if you wana bring lots of flyers, i'd also take comms relay as it's 1/3 of your army in reserves. Besides, aegis or bunker will help you endure the first 1-2 turns a bit better.


Yeh I know what you mean, but if hes spreading out that much he's going to have issues with multiple bike units. Its not a be all end all, but I think a couple bomba's could seriously throw some pressure on them. Simply thinning out a couple scatterlasers reduces the whole units fire output reasonably well. I will start by running a couple outside the formation, but I just LOVE the idea of the formation

Fliers have to arrive from our board edge? I've never actually used one yet and haven't bothered to look up the rules much other than understanding how to deal with them I've got a bunker with an escape hatch, that I like to run lootas inside, as it allows quite a lot of fire out. Thinking of making a firebase style list with some Mek gunz, bunker, lootas and then some fliers as the core. I'll then add from there. So going to try and go for comms relay plus some power fields. Aims being to draw them towards me to allow my fliers to open up on them.


Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Think you should read the rules

You'll find out how screwed up the interaction of flyer bases and it's surroundings is. You should be super careful with maneuvres. Especially when you have a whole armada in the air.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa





What do you guys reckon to using fortifications?
I am considering;
Wall of martyrs imperial bunker, Hatch (or maybe the void instead), ammo store, with barricades, comms = Roughly 130 pts

  • Putting 8 lootas inside (the max that can fire out)
  • Putting another loota squad on top
  • Barricades go external and provide a 4+ cover save to my mek gunz.


  • Thoughts being that both units re-roll 1s, 4+ to my Mek gunz in case I get any incoming AP3/2, the building is AV14, the unit on top have an AV12 shield. So its more of a deterrence to prevent Low Str, ignores cover blasts from things like thunderfire cannons etc.. Meaning they need to commit some weapons to removing the AV12 layer, which means they are taking heat of the rest of my vehicles. The Hatch, would be if I ran a MA mek and put him in with the lootas inside. The bunker placed on my deployment line, with the hatch 12" ahead means that I could disembark out of the hatch and use the SnP to allow my lootas to be midtable firing at full BS, potentially I can also aim to get an objective close to the hatch so that when I do pop out I can also claim something.

    My comparison would be; for 150 pts I could simply take another 10 man loota unit, so having 3 units in board terrain vs 2 in the bunker. The re-rolls 1's I might consider dropping, as with orks, re-roll 1s isn't a huge boon, as with a 1/6 of getting a 1, then again only another 1/3 of hitting, I would need 3 1's to get an extra hit. So for 30 shots that's only 5x 1's, which is then only another 1 hit statistically.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 11:31:43


    Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

     
       
    Made in us
    Grovelin' Grot




    I actually am pretty sure that bombing runs can't be conducted by a flier that moves off the table in the same turn, but at least the rest of it is true. Also you will have those games where your flier doesn't come in until turn 4. Those are really painful games, especially if you need their firepower on the table before then.

    On the fortifications, I actually have considered buying fortifications just to get the emergency hatch available in stronghold assault, to essentially give a unit of 20 footsloggers another 12" movement before running. Unfortunately you can't charge after that, but it still moves you pretty far down the board in 1 turn. In general I am not a fan of fortifications but that seems like a creative and potentially effective use.

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 16:43:51


     
       
    Made in us
    Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





    Indianapolis, IN

    The Imperial Answer wrote:
     Mr.T wrote:
     Frozocrone wrote:
    Even if you only cause like 4 wounds it's still a VP from knocking three wounds/hull points off a LoW (I have only just learned this).

    Paste source, please


    It's one of the Escalation rules.

    I believe 3 Hull Points or Wounds from any Lord of War is considered a victory point.


    Do note that the victory point is awarded at the end of the game, so if it has it will not die or (in our case repair) you could be denied VP. Killing the LoW out right is the best way to deal with them and gets you the VP. I usually take a considerable about of repair meks for my stompa when I play it to deny the VP. I've had it save me a couple of times where the repair moves the VP from 3 points to 1 point.

    Armies:
    The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
    Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
    Ultramarines: 4,000
    Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
    Elysians: 500
    Khorne Daemons: 2500
     
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    Bombing runs can be performed when leaving combat airspace. The only thing you can't do when leaving combat airspace is when you've arrived from reserves (so you can't come on, come off again and then declare Bomb/Vector Strike at whatever you moved over).

    To mitigate reserves, I either have some sort of manipulation (such as a Comms Relay or +/- to rolls) or have one or two units in reserve so I'm not as dependent on them.

    I've not used fortifications with my Orks. With my nids, yes as Bastions/VSGs can hide the all-stars that are Flyrants. With Orks, I just can't seem to justify it over more boyz .

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
    Made in us
    Dakka Veteran




    Someone what does Battlescribe say for the Kustom Stompa's Powerfield's exactly ?

    I hear that upgrade is D6 Powerfields now.
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Wichita, KS

     Frozocrone wrote:
    Tankbustas are pretty good against a Wraithknight. 4's to wound and ignore armour. Bomb Squigs mitigate poor BS too.

    10 Tankbustas shooting at a Wraith Knight do 1.11 wounds provided he has no cover.

    Since a Wraith Knight moves while ignoring cover, it basically costs them nothing to stay in 4+ cover. That means 0.56 wounds from 10 Tankbustas.

    Bomb Squigs are AP:4. That means each bomb squig does 0.09 wounds to a Wraith Knight.

    59 Bomb Squigs cost the same as a Wraith knight. However, statistically, 59 bomb squigs assuming they all have range will fail to kill a wraith knight (5.46 wounds). That right there is what we call a sub optimal solution.

    Tankbustas are one of our better options for killing wraith Knights. In shooting they perform roughly as good as Lootas. But In close combat they do much better. 10 Tankbustas do 1.67 wounds per turn to a Wraith Knight in close combat. Tankbustas are also one of our better solutions to most things.


    Solar Shock wrote:
    What do you guys reckon to using fortifications?
    I am considering;
    Wall of martyrs imperial bunker, Hatch (or maybe the void instead), ammo store, with barricades, comms = Roughly 130 pts

  • Putting 8 lootas inside (the max that can fire out)
  • Putting another loota squad on top
  • Barricades go external and provide a 4+ cover save to my mek gunz.

  • Generally, Barricades are considered the same size as the large section of the Aegis Line. Gretchin cannot see over an Aegis line. In order to fire non-barrage mek gunz you need LOS from both the Gun and the model firing it.

    I would be very careful about this.
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    That's true tag. I've started looking at Warbuggies a couple of times. 4+ cover WK against 11 Warbuggies (about the same cost as a WK) do ~2 wounds, which is pretty good. 4 wounds if you catch the WK out of cover.

    They do cut into the FA slots though (and max at five) and give up points in the Scouring which is why I'm a little bit hesitant about them.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/13 17:47:39


    YMDC = nightmare 
       
    Made in us
    Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





    Anoka County, MN

    tag8833 wrote:
     Frozocrone wrote:
    Tankbustas are pretty good against a Wraithknight. 4's to wound and ignore armour. Bomb Squigs mitigate poor BS too.

    10 Tankbustas shooting at a Wraith Knight do 1.11 wounds provided he has no cover.

    Since a Wraith Knight moves while ignoring cover, it basically costs them nothing to stay in 4+ cover. That means 0.56 wounds from 10 Tankbustas.

    Bomb Squigs are AP:4. That means each bomb squig does 0.09 wounds to a Wraith Knight.

    59 Bomb Squigs cost the same as a Wraith knight. However, statistically, 59 bomb squigs assuming they all have range will fail to kill a wraith knight (5.46 wounds). That right there is what we call a sub optimal solution.

    Tankbustas are one of our better options for killing wraith Knights. In shooting they perform roughly as good as Lootas. But In close combat they do much better. 10 Tankbustas do 1.67 wounds per turn to a Wraith Knight in close combat. Tankbustas are also one of our better solutions to most things.


    Solar Shock wrote:
    What do you guys reckon to using fortifications?
    I am considering;
    Wall of martyrs imperial bunker, Hatch (or maybe the void instead), ammo store, with barricades, comms = Roughly 130 pts

  • Putting 8 lootas inside (the max that can fire out)
  • Putting another loota squad on top
  • Barricades go external and provide a 4+ cover save to my mek gunz.

  • Generally, Barricades are considered the same size as the large section of the Aegis Line. Gretchin cannot see over an Aegis line. In order to fire non-barrage mek gunz you need LOS from both the Gun and the model firing it.

    I would be very careful about this.


    Move the Gunz and Grots firing them towards the back and they should be able to see more targets, especially the WK's just fine.

    Fighting crime in a future time! 
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Wichita, KS

     PipeAlley wrote:
    tag8833 wrote:
    Gretchin cannot see over an Aegis line. In order to fire non-barrage mek gunz you need LOS from both the Gun and the model firing it.

    Move the Gunz and Grots firing them towards the back and they should be able to see more targets, especially the WK's just fine.


    That is an OK point. I was at a tourney on Saturday. I had 6 KMK's, and 4 Kannons. I lost at the final table because my KMK's and Kannons only had a 36" range, and had trouble drawing line of sight over a massive bridge in the middle of the table. Each of them got to shoot exactly once in the game. It was hammer and Anvil vs Tau, and I really needed them to support my Green tide.

    I've been switch from playing tourneys with Tyranids to using Orks, and the one unit that has most disappointed me is the Mek Gunz. They need more range, or the Gretchin need to be taller or preferably both. It is too easy to get screwed by Terrain and or missions when they can only shoot 36" and can't move and shoot.
       
    Made in nz
    Disguised Speculo





    Model the grots on rocks?

    Not being able to see over the aegis is stupid. You can model bases however you like. So put them on rocks and laugh at anyone trying to enforce that stupid gak on you.
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    On a more generic view point, what does everyone use for Troops?

    Tempted to make the switch from Zhadsnarks troops to Shoota Boyz for Strategic Traits.

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
    Made in us
    Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend



    Maine

     Dakkamite wrote:
    Model the grots on rocks?

    Not being able to see over the aegis is stupid. You can model bases however you like. So put them on rocks and laugh at anyone trying to enforce that stupid gak on you.


    Well, you can model them within reason, or you risk being accused of modeling for advantage.
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    There is a spot for the gretchin on the Mek gun. He is basically the highest point of the Mek gun so if the Mek gun can see the target so can the gretchin. Unless of course you modeled your own Mek gun with no gretchin on it.

    Regarding the aegis. You can't have it both ways. Since its player purchased terrain it is assumed the model shoots through or over the aegis and it's assumed the opponent has Los to the gretchin and the gretchin only gets a 4+ save instead of being concealed and out of Los. This is of course without the Gretchen going to ground.
       
    Made in nz
    Disguised Speculo





    Of course you can't. Claiming your grots can see over it yet are perfectly concealed in return is as bad as claiming that the grots can't see over it in the first place.
       
    Made in us
    Longtime Dakkanaut




    Wichita, KS

    gungo wrote:
    There is a spot for the gretchin on the Mek gun. He is basically the highest point of the Mek gun so if the Mek gun can see the target so can the gretchin. Unless of course you modeled your own Mek gun with no gretchin on it.
    I did indeed model it this way, but as a tourney player, I'm concerned that the gretchin mounted on the gun could be ruled illegal. I started a thread about it, and the consensus was that they don't count as crew:
    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646764.page

    gungo wrote:
    Regarding the aegis. You can't have it both ways. Since its player purchased terrain it is assumed the model shoots through or over the aegis and it's assumed the opponent has Los to the gretchin and the gretchin only gets a 4+ save instead of being concealed and out of Los. This is of course without the Gretchen going to ground.
    I kept getting called out at the FLG because the Guns were taller than the Aegis, but the Gretchin were not. So it was the worst of both worlds. The Enemy could see my unit to target them, but my unit couldn't see the enemy to shoot back.
       
    Made in au
    Irked Necron Immortal





     Glitcha wrote:
    The Imperial Answer wrote:
     Mr.T wrote:
     Frozocrone wrote:
    Even if you only cause like 4 wounds it's still a VP from knocking three wounds/hull points off a LoW (I have only just learned this).

    Paste source, please


    It's one of the Escalation rules.

    I believe 3 Hull Points or Wounds from any Lord of War is considered a victory point.


    Do note that the victory point is awarded at the end of the game, so if it has it will not die or (in our case repair) you could be denied VP. Killing the LoW out right is the best way to deal with them and gets you the VP. I usually take a considerable about of repair meks for my stompa when I play it to deny the VP. I've had it save me a couple of times where the repair moves the VP from 3 points to 1 point.



    I don't think that's a rule anymore, unless you're using one of the Escalation scenarios.

    There's nothing about superheavies/gargantuan creatures offering up extra VPs in the main rulebook, and it postdates Escalation (so it's more current)

    It's a shame, because it'd probably be a nice balancing factor.
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    Yeah, I've just checked the FAQ for Escalation.

    Sucks, because my friend will always field an Imperial Knight these days and wants to collect a Knight army with their Codex release. Bonuses to fighting them would have been sweet. My distain for SH in standard games continues!

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
    Made in gb
    Stealthy Grot Snipa





    tag8833 wrote:
    gungo wrote:
    There is a spot for the gretchin on the Mek gun. He is basically the highest point of the Mek gun so if the Mek gun can see the target so can the gretchin. Unless of course you modeled your own Mek gun with no gretchin on it.
    I did indeed model it this way, but as a tourney player, I'm concerned that the gretchin mounted on the gun could be ruled illegal. I started a thread about it, and the consensus was that they don't count as crew:
    http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646764.page

    gungo wrote:
    Regarding the aegis. You can't have it both ways. Since its player purchased terrain it is assumed the model shoots through or over the aegis and it's assumed the opponent has Los to the gretchin and the gretchin only gets a 4+ save instead of being concealed and out of Los. This is of course without the Gretchen going to ground.
    I kept getting called out at the FLG because the Guns were taller than the Aegis, but the Gretchin were not. So it was the worst of both worlds. The Enemy could see my unit to target them, but my unit couldn't see the enemy to shoot back.


    Hmm that could be an issue. How does getting a coversave work for an artillery piece? How much needs to be in cover? What about the following scenarios?
  • Mek gun behind aegis, Grot to the side not behind aegis? - I assume this would count as not being in cover?
  • Mek gun not behind cover, grot in cover but has LOS - Again I assume this wouldn't count as being in cover?


  • When targeting an artillery unit what is it you target? the unit as a whole or the gunz?
    Also how many lobbas do you guys run in each battery? Max it at 5?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/14 08:46:52


    Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

     
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    Unit as a whole but you use the Artillery's toughness in all cases so they are quite durable.

    Why would you not max out Lobbas? Scatter with Barrage doesn't really matter as long as the first one hits (which should happen with the Ammo runts) and you can fire them without LOS. Best Mek Gun in my opinion. I would bring them, but I field Zhadsnark usually and it's a shady area to go into.

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
    Made in us
    Dakka Veteran




    Solar Shock wrote:
    Also how many lobbas do you guys run in each battery? Max it at 5?


    I was under the impression if you weren't taking 5 that you were doing something wrong.
       
    Made in gb
    Agile Revenant Titan




    In the Casualty section of a Blood Bowl dugout

    It's interesting that people have brought up Tankbustas as a good unit and solution to many things; I've never considered them before. How would you run them to maximise effectiveness?

    DT:90S+++G++MB++IPwhfb06#+++D+A+++/eWD309R+T(T)DM+

    9th Age Fantasy Rules

     
       
    Made in us
    Dakka Veteran




     The Shadow wrote:
    It's interesting that people have brought up Tankbustas as a good unit and solution to many things; I've never considered them before. How would you run them to maximise effectiveness?


    Apparently out of something open-topped that they can start flinging rockets out of is what I keep hearing.
       
    Made in nl
    Regular Dakkanaut




    I think 5 on foot(for a left over slot), 7 in a trukk, 10 in a gun trukk or 15 in a battlewagon are pretty good balances between extra survivability and mobility vs damage output.

    If you have a weirdboy, the tankbusta's are a good spot for him as he gets the tankhunter and all the powers are usefull for tankbusta's.
       
    Made in us
    Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





    Indianapolis, IN

     Dr. Delorean wrote:
     Glitcha wrote:
    The Imperial Answer wrote:
     Mr.T wrote:
     Frozocrone wrote:
    Even if you only cause like 4 wounds it's still a VP from knocking three wounds/hull points off a LoW (I have only just learned this).

    Paste source, please


    It's one of the Escalation rules.

    I believe 3 Hull Points or Wounds from any Lord of War is considered a victory point.


    Do note that the victory point is awarded at the end of the game, so if it has it will not die or (in our case repair) you could be denied VP. Killing the LoW out right is the best way to deal with them and gets you the VP. I usually take a considerable about of repair meks for my stompa when I play it to deny the VP. I've had it save me a couple of times where the repair moves the VP from 3 points to 1 point.



    I don't think that's a rule anymore, unless you're using one of the Escalation scenarios.

    There's nothing about superheavies/gargantuan creatures offering up extra VPs in the main rulebook, and it postdates Escalation (so it's more current)

    It's a shame, because it'd probably be a nice balancing factor.


    True, and most events have been adding the rule from the Escalation book to the event and changing the wording from Lord of War to Super heavy/Gargantuan. At lease that is how it is in my local events i go to.


    Automatically Appended Next Post:
    The Imperial Answer wrote:
    Someone what does Battlescribe say for the Kustom Stompa's Powerfield's exactly ?

    I hear that upgrade is D6 Powerfields now.


    Yes it is D6 powerfields now. IA: APOC and WH40k:APOC say that before the game starts roll a d6, this is the number of powerfields the stompa has. They are AV 12 and protect the stompa from only shooting attacks. A D STR weapon will only take out 1 shield for every shot of the D weapon. Similar to the Void shield rules, but powerfields do not come back. The funny thing to do is take the Powerfield upgrade and also a KFF or MFF. Now the shields have an invul save from shooting attacks. Its a little wanky, but because of the wording on the rules totally works.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/14 12:44:12


    Armies:
    The Iron Waagh: 10,000+ 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-7-1
    Salamanders: 5,000 8th Edition Tournament Record: 4-2
    Ultramarines: 4,000
    Armored Battle Company (DKoK): 4000
    Elysians: 500
    Khorne Daemons: 2500
     
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    UK

    What are the selling points to the Weirdboy (aside the Psychic Powers)? I see it crop up a few times but I find myself wanting to use Painboys, Big Meks in MA for Lootas and Warbosses/Zhadsnark and at that point I run out of HQ options to take.

    YMDC = nightmare 
       
     
    Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
    Go to: