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 Glitcha wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Man, I've been trying to resist the new motto of "toys before boys", but my apoc game yesterday sealed the deal.

Boyz suck. They suck bad.

Though the thing is, I think they've always sucked, its just when they were fearless they sucked a little less - and more importantly, as you never had to take morale tests on the large blobs, you never really noticed how badly they were being mauled by virtually everything.

This was in casual apoc too, for competitive 1850pts blah blah I can't see them being good for very much at all.

I never take boyz to an apoc game, unless i'm running the greentide. Its dread mob back up with super heavy support. I played a 6000pt apoc game yesterday.

My list was:
Council of Waagh!
Shock attack gun battery
2 loota wagons
Battlewagon
Kustom Stompa
Mega-Mek dread
Morkanaut
Gorkanaut
3x deffdreads
6x KillKans
3x deff koptas
Attackfighta
Kill Krusher Tank
Pulse Rokket.

The Group I play with, we allow a lot of the old data sheets and formations provide their rules still work. If not, then you can still play it just it does have the rule. Lucky for us the Shock Attack gun battery rules still work and so does the pulse rock. Which with the Pulse rocket its pretty funny. Basically incapacitates a player's force. Yesterday, my pulse rocket killed a Knight, 4 tanks, Techmarine, and a half a gaurd squad.

Where can I find the Pulse Rokket and SAG Battery rules? They sound neat

I want to run boyz in apoc because its Orky to do so. Just need to find a way for them to pull their weight, or in the case of the tide, to do so less tediously.

Might even be worth just not spacing them and saying "sure, waste your templates on my fearless, 4++ 5+++ 6pt models. Outside of a few nasty pieces of work like the wyvern, the templates I've seen are also great at killing far more valuable stuff and would be largely wasted on the boyz.

Alternatively, pile on the big shootas or rockets and you don't even necessarily need to run forward each turn. Get to the midfield and just camp and fling S8AP3 at stuff until it dies.

@Dakkamite

Here are the links for the Pulsa Rokkit: https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1403/64/1403643055579.pdf
and the Shokk Attack Battery: https://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1392/90/1392909576739.pdf

Our store is running an apoc game at end of the month I have talked 2 of the ork players into running a green tide with me.

so that's 300 + orks so far.... =)

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Our store is running an apoc game at end of the month I have talked 2 of the ork players into running a green tide with me.

so that's 300 + orks so far.... =)

Wowza! Be sure to take some pics and regale us with how it ended up working out! That amount of boyz on a table is gonna require a veritable bucket and shovel to clear the dead when the casualties start pouring in.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Our store is running an apoc game at end of the month I have talked 2 of the ork players into running a green tide with me.

so that's 300 + orks so far.... =)

Now that sounds like fun! I wish i could get my boyz to work better in apoc, but they just get whipped off the table. Although if you get the green tide stuck in you can really get some fun fights. We also need infantry to trigger our divine intervention. Which for orks is we must have the majority of all ork infantry on the table stuck in hand to hand. Then you get to make a stomp attack anywhere on the table using the megablast marker. lol I did it on sunday and caught our blood angles player by surprise. Rolled a 6 and removed from play his baneblade, 2 whirlewinds, 2 dreadnoughts with their drop pods.

The Apocalypse Green tide looks amazing. I'd take it for sure. Added to that one of the Ork abilities to double the charge range and the supper stomp attack of Gork and Mork. It has a lot going for it. ( I don't have my Apocalypse book near by so I am sure I am not using the proppa names for those last two things I mentioned.
One of the attractions is that any Ork unit near the Green tide will join the tide. So A nobs mob with WAAAGH banner and a Boss with the lucky stick could find them selves mobed up with the tide. as well as burna boys and lootas. you could turn a whole collection in to a tide. I've thought about adding Gazghkull and his formation to the tide as well. funny thing is you'd only need one pain boy for well over 300 models.
With out Gazghkull's formation the tide can run and or over watch.
Don't for get the VSG...

Very exciting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakka won't let me edit my above post...

Was going to add this.


Divine Intervention Orks. At least half the total number of Non vehicle units on the table are in close combat. Sotmp attack with massive blast marker. anywhere on the table...
Finest Hour Command Exemplar Number 4 The Great Push! Warlord and Friendly Units with in 24" can run and then shoot.( requires some luck?)
Strategic Assets Ere' we go ladz! Friendly Ork units double charge range

I think I would add tank bustas and Weird boys to the tide too...

Personally, I'd keep the council of waagh and greentide apart from each other. Putting a painboss in the greentide would work best. Just remember the lucky stick and the waagh banner do not stack together.

I'm wondering what the Warbosses of dakka think about running tankbustas.

I've gotten a lot of mixed opinions on this unit - many say they're one of our best, but I have yet to see a consistent loadout for them.

Some opt for small squads without upgrades in trukks, others larger squads with nobs and kit in battlewagons. What's the reasoning behind either option?

I can't decide which way I want to run them. I want to keep the unit cheap cause it's fragile as hell, but that also means making them far less effective. Thoughts?

5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs

15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

 Frozocrone wrote:
5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs

15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

I like kommandos too. How do you run those infiltrating squads? I could see taking just minimum size w/ 2 specials (rokkits probably, but maybe burnas are the way?).

 Jambles wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs

15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

I like kommandos too. How do you run those infiltrating squads? I could see taking just minimum size w/ 2 specials (rokkits probably, but maybe burnas are the way?).

I like little squads of 5 kommandos with 2 rokkits + mek with rokkit.

3 rokkits on an infiltrating mtc squad with stealth for 80pts.

The other kommando unit I like is 15 kommandos, 2 have burnas, 1 is nob with big choppa, + mek with kombi skorcha. The skorcha is because other infils often have armor 4 or worse so its a good way to get rid of other infils, also offers some protection from being charged first turn by some tarpit unit since you can hit them with 2 burna overwatchs + 1 skorcha overwatch and then the various pistol shots that will probably miss. I send this unit after artillery things or other infiltrators, or heavy weapon squads. Mek can eat challenges, and the big choppa (s7 on charge) is enough to threaten AV artillery (usually av 10 in assault for rear armor) along with the mass of kommando attacks. However this unit clocks in at 225pts, but can pretty much guarantee a 2nd turn charge on its target. At 225 pts I start thinking I could have almost 3 of those 80pt kommando units with rokkits just sitting in cover near the enemy deployment shooting rokkits at transports and things while the rest of the boys advance...

My wife and I are going to be in a team tournament this weekend, and she will be bringing her own Ork army.

It is 1000pts, per player, with all factions being treated as allies of convenience. We're expecting a lot of Daemons, possibly an Eldar team, and then a pretty typical mix of armies. The missions are all fairly biased towards objective holding, so mid-field control will end up the story of the day.

Here is her list. Thoughts are appreciated. It should be noted that I am bringing a Promethium Pipe Relay strictly for her Burnas, as I had the points to spare. I am running Grey Knights with a Libby, Terminators, and two Dreadknights for tank-busting, so keep that in mind when viewing her list.

+++(1000pts) +++

++ Orks: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Painboy

Warboss [Gift: Da Lucky Stikk, Warlord]
Basic Ork Armour [Power Klaw, Slugga]

+ Elites +

Burna Boyz [15x Burna Boy]

+ Troops +

Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Slugga]
19x Boy [19x Slugga]

Boyz
Boss Nob [Bosspole, Power Klaw, Slugga]
19x Boy [19x Slugga]

+ Heavy Support +

Lootas [14x Loota]

Mek Gunz [4x Ammo Runt, 4x Lobba w/ Grots]

Burna boyz in a transport, no exceptions!

Slugga boyz will get wrecked so bad by daemons in hand to hand. Maybe make them shootas, you don't lose that much melee and gain a gun that won't get you killed by higher initiative opponents when you try to use it

 Glitcha wrote:
Personally, I'd keep the council of waagh and greentide apart from each other. Putting a painboss in the greentide would work best. Just remember the lucky stick and the waagh banner do not stack together.

Also S&P + Tide sucks so bad.

Would tide count as 11 units for the Finest Hour thing?

 Jambles wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs

15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

I like kommandos too. How do you run those infiltrating squads? I could see taking just minimum size w/ 2 specials (rokkits probably, but maybe burnas are the way?).

Barebones usually. I put objectives in ruins and usually G2G with them for a 2+ cover (with Stealth) so don't like taking weapons for them.

That said, if I'm maxed out everywhere else or have points to spare, yeah, weapons can't hurt. Usually Rokkits since I can still fire them after hitting the floor and get in range easily with Infiltrate.

Just remember the lucky stick and the waagh banner do not stack together.

I did not know that.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Burna boyz in a transport, no exceptions!

Slugga boyz will get wrecked so bad by daemons in hand to hand. Maybe make them shootas, you don't lose that much melee and gain a gun that won't get you killed by higher initiative opponents when you try to use it

 Glitcha wrote:
Personally, I'd keep the council of waagh and greentide apart from each other. Putting a painboss in the greentide would work best. Just remember the lucky stick and the waagh banner do not stack together.

Also S&P + Tide sucks so bad.

Would tide count as 11 units for the Finest Hour thing?

Our TO declared that Burnas in transports don't reap the benefits of the Promethium Relay. We'd stick the Painboy in with 'em though for a little extra durability. Her thought is that 15 torrent flamers makes a nice zone of mid-field into a no-mans land, and most opponents will be more focused on shunting/deep-striking Dreadnaughts.

Jambles wrote:I'm wondering what the Warbosses of dakka think about running tankbustas.
I've gotten a lot of mixed opinions on this unit - many say they're one of our best, but I have yet to see a consistent loadout for them.
Some opt for small squads without upgrades in trukks, others larger squads with nobs and kit in battlewagons. What's the reasoning behind either option?
I can't decide which way I want to run them. I want to keep the unit cheap cause it's fragile as hell, but that also means making them far less effective. Thoughts?

Tank busta's are good, the different loadouts are usually to do with synergy, for example if you've got loads of trukks then you probably dont want a max trukk squad with upgrades as it makes that trukk a high priority, however if you have 2x min squads you keep your targets low prio.

The other way;
Currently running - 15 busta's, nob, BP, 3 Squigs, painboy, badrukk, mek, mek with KMB. All in a BW with a killkannon.
So your pumping out 15 rokkits, 3 Str 7 AP2 shots, 1 Str 8 AP2 shot, all with tank hunter.
Badrukk is warlord, giving him re-rolls to his 3+, with a FNP with a orderly re-roll. Its a surprisingly nasty unit to try and remove, rolling each save individually to make sure badrukk doesn't take too many wounds. This synergises with my SnP list that basically has a 2+ at the front of most units.

Jambles wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs
15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

I like kommandos too. How do you run those infiltrating squads? I could see taking just minimum size w/ 2 specials (rokkits probably, but maybe burnas are the way?).

I like kommando's barebones same as Frozo, great as a filler unit, can sit on a far away objective.
I do run them with a couple BS's too, generally find the greater range more useful, 24" rokkits aren't that useful when your half the board away. Burnas imo are way too pricey for a min unit. 50 point unit with 2 burnas is 80 points, considering that on 2 casualties you will be running ;P If you add a nob and BP your at 95 points, little pricey imo.

Barebones - for a GtG infiltrating Objective camper.
Barebones with 2x BS/rokkit - for an annoying objective camper

I do want to try a larger unit however. Probably barebones, simply to start as close as possible and to then get right into their faces! or thats how I see it going

 Dakkamite wrote:
Burna boyz in a transport, no exceptions!

Slugga boyz will get wrecked so bad by daemons in hand to hand. Maybe make them shootas, you don't lose that much melee and gain a gun that won't get you killed by higher initiative opponents when you try to use it

 Glitcha wrote:
Personally, I'd keep the council of waagh and greentide apart from each other. Putting a painboss in the greentide would work best. Just remember the lucky stick and the waagh banner do not stack together.

Also S&P + Tide sucks so bad.

Would tide count as 11 units for the Finest Hour thing?

The tide is 1 unit. Part of the tide rules and its not just your orks. Its all the orks on the table.

Solar Shock wrote:

Jambles wrote:I'm wondering what the Warbosses of dakka think about running tankbustas.
I've gotten a lot of mixed opinions on this unit - many say they're one of our best, but I have yet to see a consistent loadout for them.
Some opt for small squads without upgrades in trukks, others larger squads with nobs and kit in battlewagons. What's the reasoning behind either option?
I can't decide which way I want to run them. I want to keep the unit cheap cause it's fragile as hell, but that also means making them far less effective. Thoughts?

Tank busta's are good, the different loadouts are usually to do with synergy, for example if you've got loads of trukks then you probably dont want a max trukk squad with upgrades as it makes that trukk a high priority, however if you have 2x min squads you keep your targets low prio.

The other way;
Currently running - 15 busta's, nob, BP, 3 Squigs, painboy, badrukk, mek, mek with KMB. All in a BW with a killkannon.
So your pumping out 15 rokkits, 3 Str 7 AP2 shots, 1 Str 8 AP2 shot, all with tank hunter.
Badrukk is warlord, giving him re-rolls to his 3+, with a FNP with a orderly re-roll. Its a surprisingly nasty unit to try and remove, rolling each save individually to make sure badrukk doesn't take too many wounds. This synergises with my SnP list that basically has a 2+ at the front of most units.

Jambles wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
5 man squads could go in trunks, move up and then blow something up in combat with bombs
15 man squads work well firing from a battlewagon to keep them safe

I normally fill my elites with kommandos now a way, infiltrate on an objective and stay, gives me more points to build a backbone (ie bullyboyz)

I like kommandos too. How do you run those infiltrating squads? I could see taking just minimum size w/ 2 specials (rokkits probably, but maybe burnas are the way?).

I like kommando's barebones same as Frozo, great as a filler unit, can sit on a far away objective.
I do run them with a couple BS's too, generally find the greater range more useful, 24" rokkits aren't that useful when your half the board away. Burnas imo are way too pricey for a min unit. 50 point unit with 2 burnas is 80 points, considering that on 2 casualties you will be running ;P If you add a nob and BP your at 95 points, little pricey imo.

Barebones - for a GtG infiltrating Objective camper.
Barebones with 2x BS/rokkit - for an annoying objective camper

I do want to try a larger unit however. Probably barebones, simply to start as close as possible and to then get right into their faces! or thats how I see it going

Killkannon limits cap to 12. Try a Kannon with 4 Rokkits, can Skyfire and snap fire.

 PipeAlley wrote:


Killkannon limits cap to 12. Try a Kannon with 4 Rokkits, can Skyfire and snap fire.

Ahh your right, I missed that, I might either reduce unit size in that case to match the 12 cap. As I've actually found the killkannon pretty darn effective. So when your moving 12" you can only snap-fire and not fire the killkannon.
On second thoughts, I think your right, for the same points cost I can take 4x rokkits with the kannon. Keep the 15 bustas and move 12" and snap-fire all those rokkits. I'll keep the killkannons for my blitz brigade

Can Transport Walkers like Orkanauts and the Stompa disembark passengers if they are in combat ?

Also can the passengers aboard a Stompa fire at other targets even if it is locked in combat ?


For that matter if you have a Big Squiggoth that is currently fighting a Tarpit with Lootas aboard does that mean the Lootas can fire away at anything with impunity as the opponent couldn't shoot back at them till the combat between their transport and the enemy units is resolved ?

The Imperial Answer wrote:
Can Transport Walkers like Orkanauts and the Stompa disembark passengers if they are in combat ?

Also can the passengers aboard a Stompa fire at other targets even if it is locked in combat ?

As far as I know, the answer to both questions is yes. A vehicle being in close combat doesn't affect the passengers in any way and they are free to shoot/disembark normally, I believe this also applies to walkers that are transports. You still need to follow the rules for disembarking, ie use an access point, so it might not actually be possible to do it in practice if the vehicle is surrounded.

 office_waaagh wrote:
As far as I know, the answer to both questions is yes. A vehicle being in close combat doesn't affect the passengers in any way and they are free to shoot/disembark normally, I believe this also applies to walkers that are transports. You still need to follow the rules for disembarking, ie use an access point, so it might not actually be possible to do it in practice if the vehicle is surrounded.

This^^

For example a squiggoth in combat allows the embarked troops to shoot as well as disembark, however the rules for disembarking still apply; as in that you need space to do so. Being surrounded would mean you cant.

The green tide counts as 11 units for victory point purposes. I don't know what the finest hour is, but it may count as 11 units.

Just to point out, the Green Tide is a W!G formation so you can't bring a Lucky Stick you have to use Orkimedes relics. Put the Big Boss Stick on your warboss to make the whole unit fearless instead of a 160 pt Dok Grot whom can be better used in a smaller side unit like Nobz or Manz to give them Rampage (or the Waaaagh Council). You can get the Lucky stick in if you make a non W!G formation, put a lucky stick on that warboss then after deployment move him into the Green Tide.

There is a separate apoc greentide with slightly different rules not forced to the orkinedes relics.

Any of yall make movement trays for your boys yet?

I was wondering what size to try n go for, might try for 4x boys to a thing, and then just have to move 7 groups of boys per 28...that sounds much more reasonable for moving models.


7 movement trays per 4x seems reasonable too in terms of having to make stuff.

Zomnivore wrote:
Any of yall make movement trays for your boys yet?

I was wondering what size to try n go for, might try for 4x boys to a thing, and then just have to move 7 groups of boys per 28...that sounds much more reasonable for moving models.


7 movement trays per 4x seems reasonable too in terms of having to make stuff.

For 40k, movement trays are a bad idea, in my opinion. You would give an advantage to your opponent with a blast markers to score more hits than they would if you were to spread. What I normal do when I have to move a large number of boys is move the front row forward 6" and then pull boys from the back to fill in the gaps. Also move any special weapons to get them closer.

I've started to build up the Bullyboyz formation, but im unsure how many killsaws I should include; if any?

1 Killsaw MANz per squad? I mean I've already got 5 MANz, so I mean on the charge im still looking at wrecking face, but for the points cost I can't help but think atleast 1 killsaw would be a good upgrade.

I have magnetised the ranged weapons so I can run them where needed with skorchas and such. But I don't intend to magnetise the killsaws.

Transportation:
I see/hear of people using BW's to transport this formation, but surely after 3x5MANz units adding another 350+ points onto the list for transportation just seems absurd. Yeh its AV14, but once its dead, its dead. Once all 3 are down your slogging. Im thinking if I want to spend 300 points on transport; 6 or 9 trukks (bringing in the rest from CAD's etc). If each unit has back-up trukks its irrelevant if they get popped (you ain't gona get hurt), they can simply embark onto the next trukk and continue the rush forward. And now you also have trukks to help get you to the next fight.

Or I might use some bigtrakk squadrons, 1 slot per MANz unit for 2-3, putting either boyz in the front ones, or run them bare.
---------------------------------------------------------
Also, out of interest, if you use Da jump and you scatter and mishap, do you go into reserves? then walk on next turn? as you don't have the DS rule anymore, then in the psy phase attempt da jump again?

Solar Shock wrote:
I've started to build up the Bullyboyz formation, but im unsure how many killsaws I should include; if any?

1 Killsaw MANz per squad? I mean I've already got 5 MANz, so I mean on the charge im still looking at wrecking face, but for the points cost I can't help but think atleast 1 killsaw would be a good upgrade.

I have magnetised the ranged weapons so I can run them where needed with skorchas and such. But I don't intend to magnetise the killsaws.

Transportation:
I see/hear of people using BW's to transport this formation, but surely after 3x5MANz units adding another 350+ points onto the list for transportation just seems absurd. Yeh its AV14, but once its dead, its dead. Once all 3 are down your slogging. Im thinking if I want to spend 300 points on transport; 6 or 9 trukks (bringing in the rest from CAD's etc). If each unit has back-up trukks its irrelevant if they get popped (you ain't gona get hurt), they can simply embark onto the next trukk and continue the rush forward. And now you also have trukks to help get you to the next fight.

Or I might use some bigtrakk squadrons, 1 slot per MANz unit for 2-3, putting either boyz in the front ones, or run them bare.
---------------------------------------------------------
Also, out of interest, if you use Da jump and you scatter and mishap, do you go into reserves? then walk on next turn? as you don't have the DS rule anymore, then in the psy phase attempt da jump again?

Not sure I'd bother with Killsaws, 20 S9 Ap2 attacks on the charge should be enough to wreck face.
Trukks seem like a pretty good transport as they are fast but Av10 dies easily. Could go Gunwagon squadron...AV13/12/10 so like a mini battlewagon but for half the cost.

Yeah that's how Da Mishap works.