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Ashkayel wrote:
Yeah, if choppas are AP-1, I want my shoota boyz to keep them.

Choppa AP-1
Big Choppa AP-2
Power Klaw AP-3

That was meant to be! Let's go GW!

Or we could get 1-2 new melee weapon options, that'd be nice!

According to the previews at the moment the weapons that could instant kill marines got d3-d6 wounds. So I guess PK is AP- 3 d6 damage. Also I don't think big choppa will get more than -1 AP.

"Drifting is fluffier for Orks"

I love this game, I love Orks, and I love all youse guys!

 JohnU wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:
I am hopping the trukks have a cool rule for ramshackle.

Bring back kareening trukks please.

Ramshackle + new vehicle chart could do crazy things- heck, trukks could get FASTER the closer they get to blowing up!

 DaisyWondercow wrote:
heck, trukks could get FASTER the closer they get to blowing up!

I really like that idea and would be a good reinterpretation of the old rule.

 thenewgozoku wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:
Yeah, if choppas are AP-1, I want my shoota boyz to keep them.

Choppa AP-1
Big Choppa AP-2
Power Klaw AP-3

That was meant to be! Let's go GW!

Or we could get 1-2 new melee weapon options, that'd be nice!

According to the previews at the moment the weapons that could instant kill marines got d3-d6 wounds. So I guess PK is AP- 3 d6 damage. Also I don't think big choppa will get more than -1 AP.

All speculation here, but I am expecting Klaws to be -3 AP and D6 damage, and Big Choppas to be -1 AP and D3 damage. I expect our KMK will be heavy D3 -3AP and D6 damage. KMB will be -3 AP and D6 Damage and the KMS to just be a shorter range version. Might be a fun edition for our Gets Hot! Weapons. Our Burna's may well be our best dakka now. Current AP1/2/3 weapons are floored at AP-3 in 8th it looks like, but current AP 1 and 2 things are getting more damage to help with those models with wounds. I think lootas are gonna come out of this with AP-2 and still be D3 shots, and perhaps be a loser without some rulez. I am curious to see if we get AP -3 and D3 damage on rokkitz (D3 damage might be wishful thinking, but if tankbustas are gonna shoot these 16 wound vehicles they will need a nudge). Shootas will probably be AP0, Big Shoota will have to be AP-1. Snazzgunz could easily be AP -D3 which seems like a buff, and even on top of that do D3 damage. Twin Linked become 2x shots could round bikes out at 6 Shots AP-1. It isn't unreal to expect our dakkajet to throw 32 AP-1 shots at 4+ Ballistic skill on a Waaagh! (Crazy). Our koptas will probably have two rokkitz.

SAG, Grotzooka, and numerous mek gun weapons could still be anything. I think the tournament going talent they recruited to give feedback on all this is gonna do everybody good.

Without the blast marker, the SAG has to change a lot. I hope they keep all of the fluffy randomness!

Anybody else feel weird about the datasheet stating force axe AP was -2 and the force sword was -3? Does give me hope for the big choppas as it seems that they would get at least some sort of AP. And the force weapons causing D3 wounds makes it look like powerclaws and such will be deadly, maybe D6.

This will be a good edition for the boys i think.

 biggie_reg wrote:
Anybody else feel weird about the datasheet stating force axe AP was -2 and the force sword was -3? Does give me hope for the big choppas as it seems that they would get at least some sort of AP. And the force weapons causing D3 wounds makes it look like powerclaws and such will be deadly, maybe D6.

Don't forget that the sorcerer didn't have the "Force" power so I guess his CC weapons have this build in thats why the damage is d3. AP -3 for swords reminds me the no armour power weapons of the past.

 PipeAlley wrote:
"Drifting is fluffier for Orks"

I love this game, I love Orks, and I love all youse guys!

SO HYPED!

I think the saving graces of the 8th Ed will be:

Gorkanauts sucked balls when released, and GW will want ork players buying those models (i imagine they had a lot less sales then they initially hoped for with such a cool model)
Flashgitz sucked balls when released.... yada yada

Now I know this isnt the way it always works. But its been clear ork players have wanted walkers to make a return. They tried that 7ed, models, formations, new "cool" scared grot rules. it all failed miserably with the power creep. With the new ed they have the ability to reset a lot of things and I think we may find the power level of some of our stuff increasing to match the other units. Yes some rules will still be horrible for us, but in general with the fact they can on the fly sort of update units as the meta develops, I think the time of the orks has come! I dont have much experience with AoS, but one thing I did like was the way powers worked. and that certain units had interactions and special rules with other units. I hope that ports over to the orks well, as we are certainly fluffy in terms of having some crazy rules. SAG for example, flashgitz, ramshackle.

The orks have always been heavy on the 'dX' rules. AoS seems dHeavy and I have plenty of dice ready

 Rismonite wrote:


Twin Linked become 2x shots could round bikes out at 6 Shots AP-1. It isn't unreal to expect our dakkajet to throw 32 AP-1 shots at 4+ Ballistic skill on a Waaagh! (Crazy). Our koptas will probably have two rokkitz.

This is actually a huge bonus for other armies which have their units that hit on 3s or even on 4s, which means they will increase significantly their amount of firepower. With orks' bs2 the new TL rule means just a small buff, only a few hits more on average.

 Blackie wrote:


This is actually a huge bonus for other armies which have their units that hit on 3s or even on 4s, which means they will increase significantly their amount of firepower. With orks' bs2 the new TL rule means just a small buff, only a few hits more on average.

It's more of a marine buff, but they said that points will change to reflect the increase in firepower. Hopefully ours will be cheaper.

Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

 Cleatus wrote:
Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

Interesting. What else can get Kombi-skorchas?

Meganobz!

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Cleatus wrote:
Kombi-weapons can now fire both weapons every turn, and flamers auto-hit. I'm envisioning a Battlewagon full of Nobz with Kombi-Skorchas just rolling up and roasting whatever gets in their way. Maybe a few Shoota rounds hit their mark too. That's just icing on the cake. Hilarious.

Interesting. What else can get Kombi-skorchas?

Nobz (but not those that are squad upgrades.), MANZ, Meks (including those you can take in Burna squads.), Big Meks, and Bosses

For now... who knows what options might be available in a few weeks.

I see that rubric marines ignores the -1 for firing heavy weapons and they don't have slow and purposefull. I hope our Manz get that too.

For what it's worth the new rules at least made me post in this forum for the first time in years

On weapons:
If nothing is changed and all weapons are treated the same as what we have seen, shootas, big shootas and dakka guns will have no AP, deff guns and supa shootas -1, rokkits will be -2, and anything Kustom-Mega will be -3. Not sure if any of those get additional damage.
Killkannon will be exactly like the battlecannon except S7 and the usual sucky range. Depending on point costs and vehicle shooting rules it might be a great all-round weapon to stick on our battlewagons as it can pretty much hurt anything on the battlefield. That's a lot better than "might one-shot MEQs or do nothing".
Considering how the weapon options for the rubric marine's character changed, choppa and big choppa might be anything.

On split fire:
We have those rokkits we can toss in our boyz mobs which were not really anything awesome in the past edditions. When two or three rokkits in every mob of boyz suddenly can target whatever they feel like, they become a much better choice than before.
Also, big shoota #3 and #4 on battlewagons finally make sense for the first time since the model exists.

On combi-weapons:
10 Nobz with combi-skorchas now fire 20 S4 shots + 10d6 S5 shots that hit automatically.

On vehicles:
If the LRBT stattline is an indicator (did anyone else notice that they have not posted a non-walker vehicle profile?), the battlewagon is highly likely to be T8, 3+ (or maybe 4+ because open topped?) and 10+ wounds. No more exploding from one lascannon, melta or a salvo of scatter lasers to the side, no more S4 or S5 shooting destroying them easily from behind and no more arguing whether that melta guardsman is in the side arc or not. It now takes a minimum of two lascannon hits and a total of 10-12 damage to take out a battlewagon where before a single hit followed by a 4+ was enough.
I can only guess what trucks would look like, but there is no way that a single S6 or S7 hit from some high volume gun will destroy it.
In total this means a lot more shots need to go into each of our transports, which in turn means that a lot more of them will be able to unload their cargo into enemy lines.

On characters:
You can deploy a warboss in the middle of an ork mob and just move it along, nothing but snipers will ever be able to shoot it. Can't tell if snipers are going to be a problem at this point, depending on their chance to hit, to wound, their AP etc. If unit of ratlings needs 5+ to wound my warboss who can then use his 4+ save against anything that actually wounds, I'm not worried at all. If eldar pathfinders hit on 2+, wound on 2+ and then ignore saves, it will suck a lot.

On army composition:
Have you noticed that Brigade Detachment which hands out 9 commands points for fielding six units of troops and three of every other slot? That's ridiculously easy to archive with orks. MANz missiles, small tankbusta squads, single deff koptas, trukk boys, gretchin and many cheap support HQs, you can fill up whatever strategy your were planning to field and can double up on whatever slot you need most.
Assuming that command points are actually worth the trouble, this could be a great advantage for games at 2000 points.

On Mega-Armoured Orks:
They finally got their 5++!
... not really, but a lascannon still leaves them with a 5+ save, a melta at least a 6+. There is also a very slight chance that they are not instantly killed by a wound, for whatever that's worth. On the other hand, they die a bit faster to heavy bolters and the like.
This is more of an educated guess, but S&P might go a way and be replaced with 5" or 4" movement. This would mean that they can now run, making them a little bit faster than what they used to be.

I'm not saying that all will be well, but there are a bunch of promising things around.
I still trust GW to screw this up completely - I'm still bitter about the current codex and its close to useless supplement.

You forgot to mention that whoever charges, strikes first. Unless it's vs slaanesh daemons. Eager to see my meganob kombi-skorcha list of doom.

With the new combi-weapon ruling, I don't think kombi-skorcha will still exist. Kombi-burna seems more likely. Skorcha was meant to be mounted on a vehicle or a one-shot weapon on a big dude. Every turn AND still able to shoot your shoota? Seems too good.

But who knows?

 koooaei wrote:
You forgot to mention that whoever charges, strikes first. Unless it's vs slaanesh daemons. Eager to see my meganob kombi-skorcha list of doom.

True, also half the units stuck in combat from last turn, as you and your opponents alternate between who goes first on those. You will pretty much always want pick the units which weren't attacked yet. You take a lot less casualties when your PK nob and the boyz gets to strike before your enemy does.

Also, burnas striking first with energy weapons.

On combi-skorchas going away:
It's not really worse than a 10 sternguard with combi-meltas. I would not count on them staying 5 points though.

I feel that all our kombi-skorcha will stay but increased in points. They will want to keep the weapon options on their meganobz and nobz sculpts since they are fairly new. Speaking of new models, i am hoping for some new ones to come a bit after the initial release of 8th, would love to have some appropriately sized buggies to use. What do you think will differentiate the roles of the deffkoptas and the buggies now that it isn't vehicle vs jetbike? I can see the buggy being a little bit sturdier while the deffkopta will be more maneuverable.

 biggie_reg wrote:
What do you think will differentiate the roles of the deffkoptas and the buggies now that it isn't vehicle vs jetbike? I can see the buggy being a little bit sturdier while the deffkopta will be more maneuverable.

We have to wait the actual rules of these units. Deffkoptas are useful in 7th because they can jink and eat overwatch, while buggies don't have to test.

If jink and overwatch become different, deffkoptas' role may change.

Buggies, being av10 with 2 HP, can get 4-6 W (and I expect deffkoptas with 3-4 W too) and T6 but they would also get a LD value which makes impossible right now to predict how they're gonna work in 8th and what unit would be more viable and effective.

 Blackie wrote:
Buggies, being av10 with 2 HP, can get 4-6 W (and I expect deffkoptas with 3-4 W too) and T6 but they would also get a LD value which makes impossible right now to predict how they're gonna work in 8th and what unit would be more viable and effective.

We do know how leadership works though. If they get ld 7 like the Gorkanaut, you would have to kill 2 or more T5 (AV12 = T7, AV 13 = T8) models with 4-6W to actually make the test do anything.

Assuming that koptaz don't change a lot, you already got the difference in roles: One is more versatile in what it can do an the other is able to soak a lot more damage before dying.

Strategems are also pretty interesting - for every command point you can reroll one charge per turn, for two you can have one of your charged units strike before whoever has charged. Assaulting more than one ork unit per turn can turn into a big gamble for enemies, as they might lose one of their charging units before it gets to strike.

What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the current WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Even if the Ork specific strategems turn out to be a total bust, the generic ones are all useful to us.

Really like what they did here.

Ashkayel wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the actual WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Nice one

This would also work the other way around - if the space marine player was charging, your could spend 2 CP and smash one of his units to bits before they ever get to strike.

 Jidmah wrote:

Ashkayel wrote:

 biggie_reg wrote:
What does everyone think of the strategems from the Ork's perspective? I feel that we will be using insane bravery most of the time so we don't lose even more from our hordes

Pretty excited with the stratagems. I don't like it when GW says "You like fielding 4 knights as your army? Well you will still be able to do so!", but I guess such an army will only get a few CP, compared to more balanced armies. Let's just hope stratagems will be strong enough.

I can't wait to see the WAAAGH stratagem! I hope it will be better than the actual WAAAGH rule.

Wow, nice post by GW here:

Nice one

This would also work the other way around - if the space marine player was charging, your could spend 2 CP and smash one of his units to bits before they ever get to strike.

Which is pretty interesting. If two CC armies fought each other, there would be a tendency to only charge one unit per turn, so you don't get countercharged anywhere. Could lead to some very interesting tactics.