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Well, if you charge with 3 or 4 units all in one turn, only one can be overridden using CP, so the 2nd combat would probably see the opponent going first, but in all subsequent cases you'll get to go first unless some bespoken rule bs occurs (it really shouldn't happen often). So if most of your army will be able to charge most of an opponent's, I say go for it. With a little luck, an all out charge could really be devastating to the other army.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Well, if you charge with 3 or 4 units all in one turn, only one can be overridden using CP, so the 2nd combat would probably see the opponent going first, but in all subsequent cases you'll get to go first unless some bespoken rule bs occurs (it really shouldn't happen often). So if most of your army will be able to charge most of an opponent's, I say go for it. With a little luck, an all out charge could really be devastating to the other army.

This was my thoughts.

30 man boyz could be pretty useful this ed, as their sheer numbers may help with how units are activated, 30 models mitigating losses when the enemy activates, CP for first strike to maybe knock a CCelite unit down a couple models and then from there a slow attrition.

With the whole kombi weapons rules, I wonder whether there will be any benefits for multiple weapon arm dreds this ed. Does split-fire allow a single walker to shoot two targets? I would assume not. But I could envision double flamer dreds pumping out some serious amounts of wounds. Maybe even double kmb. Can't wait to see how the dred mob transfers over. 9 kanz, 3 dreds, Gorka and Morka. The counter charge strat would work wonders in such a low unit count army, as you are probably going to be charged every turn once in CC range, your units will only get to strike once, so why not first on as many turns as possible

 JimOnMars wrote:
Which is pretty interesting. If two CC armies fought each other, there would be a tendency to only charge one unit per turn, so you don't get countercharged anywhere. Could lead to some very interesting tactics.

Your opponent can still counter-attack with an already-in-combat-from-lasr-turn unit after you attacked with your only charging unit. Might still be worth it

Maybe it's exactly 2 charges that would be the worst case.

Yeah... avoid 2 charges when your opponent has over 2 command points.

New 'humies to smash...

Gosh I wonder if they'll be functionally the same to play against as regular Space Marines!

And meanwhile, those 2nd edition wartrakk and warbuggy kits are really starting to reek of severe neglect...

Warhammer 40 000: Space Marines, with guest factions like Chaos and Orks!

So relevant to us is that grenades now appear to function like any other shooting weapon.

D6 S3 hits doesn't sound too bad in Ork sized quantities.

Depending on the grenade rule, of course.

So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

At least markerlights were toned down a bit...

Also, keyword for Sept is there, so perhaps Ork klans?

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

JohnU wrote:At least markerlights were toned down a bit...

Also, keyword for Sept is there, so perhaps Ork klans?

Yeah, I think this is spot on! I wonder what level of control we as players will have to associate which klans/sept/chapter keywords with which units?

davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Yeah I don't see this being a thing the entire Tau army will get. It'll be a battlesuit thing, which is fine - they could get hit and run before, couldn't they?

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Drones have the Fly keyword too, and the Stormsurge has it's own rule for falling back and shooting. We'll have to see about the Riptide, but they have jetpacks too...

 davou wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So it looks like we are going to still have trouble with Tau:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-tau-empire/

They get to shoot freely after falling back! Plus supporting fire is still there, with the new multiple overwatch. Sad day for orks.

only on suits.... I am okay with that... Regular suits needed a buff

Hopefully so. The markerlight nerf is nice, and I hope they get -1 to cover save instead of ignores cover.

Crossing Fingers.

So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

 jhnbrg wrote:


So what else do we have?

Landraider bustin', Titan slayin' Grots!

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

Edited to add: I just created a new meme: Beaky, lemme smash...

 JimOnMars wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

But this is JUST the thing i fear with this edition, i am sure that in a twisted sort of way this will be balanced for tournaments but for regular players it is a disaster!
My most regular opponent plays Tau, should i tell him to play marines instead?

I have thousands and thousands of points of painted orks that are becoming just as useless as they have been for a long time and is was really looking forward to this reboot.

This will be a tournament edition aimed at those palyers that happily switches army between each tournamnet. regular players can go feth themselves...

 jhnbrg wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:
So.. jump out of combat and still shoot? Snipers to kill all meks and painboys?

Every day new spotlights to show how fethed orks will be! This is an edition written by powergamers for powergamers. Anyone think that they will nerf their precious riptides?

But attackers will strike first? Nope, not anymore due to cp.

So what else do we have?

It seems that Tau may be the only serious hard counter to Orks, which isn't surprising considering our shared history.

Marines are likely going to get ork-smashed in their beaky faces without grav, immobilized/blowing up trukks and bws, and without free rhinos and initiative. Don't fret!

But this is JUST the thing i fear with this edition, i am sure that in a twisted sort of way this will be balanced for tournaments but for regular players it is a disaster!
My most regular opponent plays Tau, should i tell him to play marines instead?

I have thousands and thousands of points of painted orks that are becoming just as useless as they have been for a long time and is was really looking forward to this reboot.

This will be a tournament edition aimed at those palyers that happily switches army between each tournamnet. regular players can go feth themselves...

Do you have any battlewagons or Trukks? Depending on the rules for disengaging, they may have to leave the board if they are castled too tightly, in which case they can't use their hit and run. If they come out to meet you, they lose a lot of supporting fire.

We may be OK.

The only thing bad for you and your friend is that games will likely be lopsided, but not always in the Tau's favor.

What models do you have?

We still don't have the whole picture settle down. Nobody benefits from f'ing over Orks or any other army.

Tougher transports? Striking first in CC? Just that makes me happy. We'll be fine. And best of all, if we're not fine, GW will lower the cost of our units few months later.

 JimOnMars wrote:

Do you have any battlewagons or Trukks? Depending on the rules for disengaging, they may have to leave the board if they are castled too tightly, in which case they can't use their hit and run. If they come out to meet you, they lose a lot of supporting fire.

We may be OK.

The only thing bad for you and your friend is that games will likely be lopsided, but not always in the Tau's favor.

What models do you have?

I have:
4 mobs of 30 boyz plus enough to make a few more trukk mobs
about 30 nobs
20 lootas
15 burnas
10 tankbustas
10 flash gitz
15 bikes
8 koptas
about 15 characters (warbosses, meks, painboyz)
close to 50 grots
3 mek guns (different options)
5 kannons
5 trukks
2 battlewagons
2 looted wagons
12 killa kanz
1 dread
1 stompa
1 dakka jet

I have probably forgotten some stuff.

We don't know yet, but if you fill your vehicles with boyz you should be able to penetrate pretty far in, losing only a couple a turn.

The kans might be silly resiliant for their cost....we don't know.

If they screw us, they screw us, but it hasn't happened yet. So far it looks like we'll own the middle.

Well how about this way of looking at it. Maybe stormboyz will have some sort of cool disengage? Turn that frown upside down!

It will be interesting to see what happens with artillery with regards to the grot crews. Maybe they will do away with ablative wounds. I imagine the artillery will still have a T value, but I doubt that it will be shared. As without IC's joining units theres almost no times when you'd have a unit with various saves: except artillery.

We haven't even recieved a faction focus article yet. But it seems that with unending overwatch it still won't be possible to charge tau with something footslogging. So, probably go shooty if you want to field hordes. And get a bunch of mek gunz, lootas and...probably flash gits? I don't know, they've never been good. But they have a potential to become something like spawns in sense that one of the worst units in the whole game gets strong overnight.

 koooaei wrote:
We haven't even recieved a faction focus article yet. But it seems that with unending overwatch it still won't be possible to charge tau with something footslogging. So, probably go shooty if you want to field hordes. And get a bunch of mek gunz, lootas and...probably flash gits? I don't know, they've never been good. But they have a potential to become something like spawns in sense that one of the worst units in the whole game gets strong overnight.

I don't know.

Flash Git's issue has always been that you pay way too many points for a melee stat line on a shooting unit, and those points are killed far to easily.
In addition they have always been in a slot that was stacked with our best units, no matter which edition.
If they are supposed to become good, either their points need to drop or their survivability needs to increase. Bringing back 4+ armor would help for example.

As for hordes, I would wait for our actual stat lines. Many things in our codex make little to no sense with some of the currently known rules, so I would expect a lot of things to change, even if only slightly.
If nothing changes, there are still some good news for hordes:
- 'ard boyz are pretty awesome now, as you get to take your saves unless someone is aiming anti-tank weaponry at your boyz
- less wounds from S6 and S7 shooting, as they wound orks on 3+ instead of 2+.
- spacing no longer matters: no more losing droves of orks to flamers and large blasts after finishing combat, being forced out of a transport or moving through narrow spaces on the board.
- you only need to come within 1" to succeed a charge, so basically 1 free inch now
- after a successful charge you can drag all units you can reach with your 3" fight phase move into combat as well, without overwatch. As tau tend to cuddle around their commanders and etherals, you will most likely be able to pull two or more units into each combat.
- after a failed charge, you still get to move your charge distance

And that's only counting confirmed stuff. They also stated that removing models from the front was a big issue, plus characters getting buff bubbles instead of joining units and conferring USR (pain boy?).
Sky is not falling. Not yet.

 Jidmah wrote:

- after a failed charge, you still get to move your charge distance

Is this confirmed?

 JohnU wrote:

 jhnbrg wrote:


So what else do we have?

Landraider bustin', Titan slayin' Grots!

This guy gets it! If Orks get hosed this edition, every tournament opponent will be facing my Grot Army.

The squeaky WAAAGH!!! is the most dangerous WAAAGH!!!

If grots become our only viable unit, I will field an army of them, I swear to Gork and Mork.

Man, i hope grots become more viable than just objective campers. Love grots.