Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Anyone else notice this bit?

Nobz squads also help to keep Orks from leggin’ it by rolling a D6 for each nearby Ork that tries to flee, and on the result of a 6, they do not.

That's a cool ability. Gives Nobz even more utility, on top of 2W, PK's, BC's, Kombi-weapons, etc.

I'll be curious to see how leader Nobz function now in Boyz units.

Also, as there are no more challenges in melee, a Nob will no longer be forced to focus all his attention on smashing just one foe.

No more challenges now, but PF's/PK's can do multiple wounds per hit, but from what I've read they're applied on a per-model not per-unit basis (or something like that?). Maybe better to take a Big Choppa against infantry now, and save PK's for taking down IC's and opening up metal bawkses. I wonder what Bosspoles will do now?

OH NOES!

Failed Chargers DO NOT get to move.

http://imgur.com/a/hYQup

Ugh, they worded that section really poorly.

More stuff:

Chargers don't need coherency during the charge; only at the end. This avoids some conga-line bottlenecks.

Consolidate is 3 inches, into combat (presumably).

Range is as before, you just need to be within 1 inch of the front line of boyz, so three ranks can fight.

----

Disembarkation: you disembark 3, but then CAN MOVE normally. THIS IS HUGE. During a WAAAAGH!, you get 3 inch disembark, full movement, advance, shoot assault weapons, then charge!!!! So disembark-move-run-shoot-charge is a thing.

------

ETA: you don't have to charge the unit you shot at, so no worries about shooting a unit and making it too far away. Shoot something else!

---------

Just thought of another thing...probably a TFG move, but...

Put your dedicated transport right on the line at the start of turn 1. Everyone inside gets a free 3 inches added to their turn 1 move.

For destroyed transports, roll for number of models (not each unit)

Also doesn't seem like there's any restriction for embarked passengers to leave their engaged transport, so long as they follow the normal disembarkation rules.

 JohnU wrote:
Ugh, they worded that section really poorly.

I don't see any problems with it. More to it than AoS but I didn't have questions after reading it.

What would make ork boyz flee, for the Nobz mob to prevent them?

I thought fall backs were voluntary now.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
What would make ork boyz flee, for the Nobz mob to prevent them?

I thought fall backs were voluntary now.

The casualties you remove in the Morale Phase are considered fleeing models. I guess it's what that prevents (taking casulaties from a failed morale check).

Ooo, well then! That makes alot more sense.

I wonder if Assault ramps (or other assault vehicles) will operate like Boarding Planks, and add to charge ranges or if they're going to be casually swept under a rug.

Am I getting this wrong? From my understanding each unit benefits from its own Mob Rule which is the old ldr=model count but now with no cap (I had always wished it was wound count instead of model count as it otherwise gratly undermines Nobz). However if said unit is near Nobz or Warbosses then these leaders do a bit of head knocking and stifles any further morale losses.

But....I'm getting from the community here that they also gain the ldr stat of another nearby unit? Say, for example , 30 from another full unit of Boyz - nevermind Nobz and Warbosses (whom might seem less important here)?

Aside from this bit of confusion I'm completely giddy about what I'm seeing for the orks this edition. Core rules are looking great for us and then giving us back our old Mob Rule is sweet A1 sauce right there. Busy this summer but this winter I might dedicate myself to finishing my orks.

So, with the clarification about models of your choice (and not per squad) suffering wounds after a transport collapse and no limitation to the number of units in transports - only the number of models, what do you guyz think are the best passangers to go along manz to eat explodes? I'm thinking burnas or kommandoes. Or even regular nobz depending on cost.

I don't really see a reason to transport kommandoz, they are pretty much the same as ork boyz anyways.

Otherwise it's pretty much the same as it has always been - if you put too many points in one battlewagon, that one battlewagon is going to be stopped. Both MANz Burnaz spell doom for whatever they charge, so I would split them in two battlewagons. Fill up MANz with boyz and add five tank bustaz or nobz to the burnaz. Add a third battlewagon with 'ard boyz so you won't have to worry about leadership and you're ready to go.

@ Prowler- it looks like the 'thing' of the new Orks is layers. Onions have layers, Orks have layers.

So there's multiple things you can use to keep a Boyz mob from taking damage from fleeing/morale/whatever Leadership issues you have.

1- Have a lot of Boyz in the unit. Use Mob Rule by the numbers.

2- Have a lot of Boyz near the unit.

3- Have another unit with high Leadership nearby- a Warboss, perhaps.

4- Have some Nobz or Warbosses nearby to krump a few heads- basically the Commissar effect.


Maybe even more. And so you choose which of these options will work best for you in that situation, or maybe even get to use multiple.

Anvildude wrote:
@ Prowler- it looks like the 'thing' of the new Orks is layers. Onions have layers, Orks have layers.

You made me squirt coffee out my nose, Anvildude. Hilarious, but painful.

Anvildude wrote:
So there's multiple things you can use to keep a Boyz mob from taking damage from fleeing/morale/whatever Leadership issues you have.

1- Have a lot of Boyz in the unit. Use Mob Rule by the numbers.
2- Have a lot of Boyz near the unit.
3- Have another unit with high Leadership nearby- a Warboss, perhaps.
4- Have some Nobz or Warbosses nearby to krump a few heads- basically the Commissar effect.
Maybe even more. And so you choose which of these options will work best for you in that situation, or maybe even get to use multiple.

Yep... it looks like a min/maxed Ork army will be the anti-spam army. As Prowler pointed out, a rotation of 3-4 different units will likely be the most effective. Outside historicals, I can't remember any other type of army that will benefit from taking so many different types of units in the same force.

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't really see a reason to transport kommandoz, they are pretty much the same as ork boyz anyways.

you can't take <10 boyz.

Seriously, why the Super-Heavy detachment gives 3 command points while the other "speshul" detachments only give 1? To make sure Knights lists are still viable? I've never played against mass IK, WK or Riptides (or other super-heavies, there are none in my meta), it seems so boring to play, why is GW encouraging people to do that kind of list?

Having +20 models of orks in a boy unit is now also a must, had a chance to have a look at the index today and when a unit has more than 20 models it gains + 1 attack.
Really like this buff

Wilsken wrote:
Having +20 models of orks in a boy unit is now also a must, had a chance to have a look at the index today and when a unit has more than 20 models it gains + 1 attack.
Really like this buff

My only problem with this hype wagon is 20+ boys don't fit in transport.
Even with a normal movement stat like 6 and d6 advance and charge (which no longer moves the unit in s failed charge) ork boy blobs are SLOW!!!
Sure you can take da jump psychic power BUT it doesn't transport any HQs that are there to buff the blob and it moves your giant leadership buff away from everyone else in your army.

Furthermore hqs can't join units, don't send thier auras outside any transports and are slow as well so your pretty much forced to go BIKE upgrade on them for movement, survivability and keep thier aura effects.
I know there will be changes but I fully expect something like this to be standard
Warboss on bike w PK
Painboy on bike
Zhardsnark depending on rules
Weirdboy

10x manz using da jump
10+ nob bikers w Big choppa

30 boy blob w sluggas (for bubble wrap)

Tankbustas and burnas in trukks (maybe flashgits in trukk depending on cost)

Morkanaut w kff (huge kff footprint)

From there is depends if you use FW and the ork vehicles and dreads there are awesome
Or rules on index special characters

I wonder if the rules for ork special weapons will stay "1 in X" or will change to "up to X can take".

It seems like they're pushing for more elite units to be in wagons while the big mobz of boyz will be foot slogging, but it's hard to say without seeing the rest of the rules.

I hope they make killkannons useful.

The GSC teaser says "you can ram them with the Drilldozer in melee for a possible 6+D3 Strength 8 attacks with an AP of -2 and D3 damage per hit" so maybe deff rollas will be good again? The "possbile" make me wonder if it is going to have a +1 attack per 5 rule like that dreadnought weapon.

koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't really see a reason to transport kommandoz, they are pretty much the same as ork boyz anyways.

you can't take <10 boyz.

You don't really need (or want) more than 5 MANz in a wagon though, I'd even go for as little as 3. They will still murderize everything the manage to get hold of, and they won't exactly see a huge point drop.
You basically could just bring multiple battlewagons with 3 MANz, 12 boyz and MA warboss/MA kff mek/Ghaz and have truck boyz, a HQ and a MANz missile in each of your battlewagons.

gungo wrote:

Wilsken wrote:
Having +20 models of orks in a boy unit is now also a must, had a chance to have a look at the index today and when a unit has more than 20 models it gains + 1 attack.
Really like this buff

My only problem with this hype wagon is 20+ boys don't fit in transport.
Even with a normal movement stat like 6 and d6 advance and charge (which no longer moves the unit in s failed charge) ork boy blobs are SLOW!!!
Sure you can take da jump psychic power BUT it doesn't transport any HQs that are there to buff the blob and it moves your giant leadership buff away from everyone else in your army.

Well... bring more boyz? They are a lot harder to kill now and in 5th (golden 4++ KFF times) I could easily fit 120 in 1500 points. You can also easily buff 4 mobz of 30 with a single pain boy and a single KFF, while they keep each other's leadership at 30.
Sure, you'll need two or three turns to march across the board, but unlike in the current edition, you'll actually make it.

20 boyz are still good by the way - just because you can get LD30, LD20 still isn't something terrible Since you are less likely to lose a ton of models at once in a BW army, you probably won't even feel the difference.

Furthermore hqs can't join units, don't send thier auras outside any transports and are slow as well so your pretty much forced to go BIKE upgrade on them for movement, survivability and keep thier aura effects.
I know there will be changes but I fully expect something like this to be standard
Warboss on bike w PK
Painboy on bike
Zhardsnark depending on rules
Weirdboy

We really don't know what warbikes do now, and depending on if any snipers are actually played regularly, you might want to use HQs in mega armor. Otherwise there hasn't been a downside to putting your footslogging warboss on a bike in the last two codices either. If he strikes first now, you can basically charge him head first into anything that can't reliably kill him and destroy it.

10x manz using da jump
10+ nob bikers w Big choppa

I seriously doubt that either unit will be anywhere near viable. Half those sizes will be enough to ruin anything anywhere. Unlike now, when nobz charge, all of them will get to strike and very few units will be able to do anything meaningful after having taken 15 PK/BC attacks to the face.

30 boy blob w sluggas (for bubble wrap)

Bubblewrapping what? Just have them move across the board and start murdering stuff. No more space marines, eldar or even guardsmen killing half the unit before you strike. The big amount of dice you roll means you can even take on walkers that would previously tarpit your for rounds.

Morkanaut w kff (huge kff footprint)

Since KFF has gone back from models to units, the huge footprint matters a lot less.

By the way, am I reading the rules wrong?

1. I charge a single unit and wipe them out in combat.
2. I consolidate 3" towards the nearest enemy model. Since I wiped my target this is a model from a different unit
3. If I get within 1" of any other unit with this move that unit is stuck in combat next turn and must either fall back or fight me

Right? RIGHT?!

Yes, you can consolidate into combat.

*Has horrible 4th edition flashbacks involving Khorne Berserkers*

So what could be a "minimal size" Brigade Detachment with the 7th Ed points? I'm just having fun here, that's not meant to be an optimal list.

1x MAWB w/ DLS (125 pts)
1x Painboy (50 pts)
1x Weirdboy (70 pts)

6x 9 boyz + PK BP nob in trukk w/ RR (810 pts)

3x 5 tankbustas in trukk w/ RR (300 pts)

3x lone kopta (90 pts)

3x single lobba/kannon (54 pts)

Total: 1499 pts

Hmm, I guess it will be pretty hard to play a Brigade Detachment in a 1000 pts game... Minimal size with just BMs, grots, kommandos, buggies and kannons is 594 pts.

Three brigades at 1850. Is it even possible to spend 30 cp in a game?

New Overwatch rules are no good, if I'm reading it right. The one unit getting charged can fire Overwatch at each unit charging it before any midels move so no more "eating" Overwatch. Is that how you ladz read it?

I like consolidation in general and especially into a new combat.

Transport rules are simpler and seem good. Hopefully our open topped vehicles allow for shooting and maybe some disembark bonus (no standard rule to allow shooting while embarked).

Units can only overwatch multiple times if the first charge fails. Once successfully charged, they have to wait to swing in CC until after the charging unit goes.

I'm a little annoyed a very early teaser implied charging units move even if they fail, but the recent rulebook leak has disproved the theory.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
Units can only overwatch multiple times if the first charge fails. Once successfully charged, they have to wait to swing in CC until after the charging unit goes.

I'm a little annoyed a very early teaser implied charging units move even if they fail, but the recent rulebook leak has disproved the theory.

Interesting. I guess I read it that you declare all charges (step 1), resolve all Overwatch (2), then roll all distances (3), then move all models (4). But now that you say it, I can also see how you might follow those steps 1-4 for each charging unit and then start over at 1-4 for the next unit.

Thanks for the clarification.

One of the thing's I'm going to run with the jump is sending a large boy sqwad to a side if the map to both function a's ldr support and second wave assault while my warboss is supporting the other side of the table. My batitlewagons will most likely consist of my MANz that would used to be in trukks along with shoota Boyz (2/3 of my regular Boyz are gun line Boyz and 1/3 are Ard Choppa Boyz) as both ablative wounds in case of vehicle explosions as well as in your face fire support and secondary assault cleanups. Primary first wave assaults appear to be Manz, Stormboyz and Kommandos for me in whatever combination/concentration. I also gave a full squad of big choppy Nobz and kombi weapons (skorcha) and 1 powerfist that is looking better this edition.

Solar Shock wrote:
So:

My boss is at the backlines
Boyz are out of waaagh range
Boyz move
Boyz advance
We tele boss into waaghh range
Can the boyz charge?

At first I thought it was an ork war song.

 Jidmah wrote:

koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't really see a reason to transport kommandoz, they are pretty much the same as ork boyz anyways.

you can't take <10 boyz.

You don't really need (or want) more than 5 MANz in a wagon though, I'd even go for as little as 3. They will still murderize everything the manage to get hold of, and they won't exactly see a huge point drop.
You basically could just bring multiple battlewagons with 3 MANz, 12 boyz and MA warboss/MA kff mek/Ghaz and have truck boyz, a HQ and a MANz missile in each of your battlewagons.

I'm thinking about manz in trukks and what's the best way to run them with minimising the damage they take from explosions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thenewgozoku wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
So:

My boss is at the backlines
Boyz are out of waaagh range
Boyz move
Boyz advance
We tele boss into waaghh range
Can the boyz charge?

At first I thought it was an ork war song.

Chorus:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! Boyz be da best! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, my problem with footsloggers in 6 and 7 was not leadership - mob rule and bosspole nobz handled ld pretty darn good - the problem was that they couldn't make it across the table vs shooters and couldn't really hurt dedicated assaulters cause those were too fast and tough.

I'm not seeing this durability increase we're taling about. Yes, KFF is now stable and will grant 5++ but...in all honesty, my boyz often had 5+ cover and 5+++ anywayz. Now they get 5++ and 6+++. And we got to pay for kff. So, my gut feeling is that boyz will still be unable to make it across the field on foot. If something, tau are now even shootier and more mobile than before. And can overwatch infinitely. And those flamers are gona be mean.

It's too early to judge but i'm afraid that 100% footslogging is not going to be viable unless you spam wierdboyz or something.

Most of our durability increase comes from all those S6/7 guns currently out there wounding on 3s instead of 2s now, but I don't think that's enough for a bunch of slogging mobs either.