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Or they left early?

He's be seen at the set of season 6 at the very least.

 Sigvatr wrote:
He's be seen at the set of season 6 at the very least.

Link??? Image???

Will dig it up when I get back home. He wasn't in costume, however, just spotted at the set. Doesn't mean he will be in season 6 either, could just be visiting.

Well, I think these links clear the matter up. I'll keep my text spoilered, in case you want to keep wondering.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

 djones520 wrote:
Well, I think these links clear the matter up. I'll keep my text spoilered, in case you want to keep wondering.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead

Spoiler:

So reading this, they seem to be stating that Jon Snow is unequivocally dead. At the same time, the lengths they go to in saying that, their pretty much saying that Stannis is still alive.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Spoiler:

This pretty much makes it clear that he ain't coming back. Now it could be a shell game... but who knows.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Now the drawback about this being a show as opposed to the books

The positive thing is that the show is being made - the books may never happen

Jamie is being shown as very much more sympathetic - much to the delight of my female friends - although I do remind them that he has been known to throw children out tower windows with merely a quip..........

His arrival back in KL should be interesting - although why he would not turn the ship around and get the ruler of Dorne to kill the Sand Snakes I don't know....................

The ruler of Dorne is dead. We see wheels and his body guard at the dock seeing off the ship, then when they cut back to the dock, those two are gone. The snake girl could be in charge now, she was wife to his brother, and she'll probably claim Jamie killed the prince and kidnapped or killed his son.

Jamie may or may not turn the ship around to confront her, but he'll have no support there and will have to leave or die.

Could they not just have left the dock?

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Now the drawback about this being a show as opposed to the books

The positive thing is that the show is being made - the books may never happen

Jamie is being shown as very much more sympathetic - much to the delight of my female friends - although I do remind them that he has been known to throw children out tower windows with merely a quip..........

His arrival back in KL should be interesting - although why he would not turn the ship around and get the ruler of Dorne to kill the Sand Snakes I don't know....................

The ruler of Dorne is dead. We see wheels and his body guard at the dock seeing off the ship, then when they cut back to the dock, those two are gone. The snake girl could be in charge now, she was wife to his brother, and she'll probably claim Jamie killed the prince and kidnapped or killed his son.

Jamie may or may not turn the ship around to confront her, but he'll have no support there and will have to leave or die.

Could they not just have left the dock?

My thoughts as well. Pretty sure the sand snakes wouldn't kill the prince of dorne who is basically oberyn's brother. It would be stupid to do that.

 djones520 wrote:
Well, I think these links clear the matter up. I'll keep my text spoilered, in case you want to keep wondering.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead

Spoiler:

So reading this, they seem to be stating that Jon Snow is unequivocally dead. At the same time, the lengths they go to in saying that, their pretty much saying that Stannis is still alive.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Spoiler:

This pretty much makes it clear that he ain't coming back. Now it could be a shell game... but who knows.

Despite this, i'm sticking with my gut that Snow's not dead. The fact that he has a contract which includes season 7 of the show is telling. The fact that he's shopping movies for next year means very little.

For instance, we saw nothing of bran this season ; they could wait to do anything with snow until the end of 6. Or they could pass season 6 up entirely as they catch up with brans temporally concurrent storyline.


For me, though, real world wise, the fact that he's under contract for the 7th and likely final season, that tells me that Jon Snow isn't dead. I'm sure Kit Harrington has to play along contractually and can't, 72 hours after airing of the "death" blow the secret.

 Haight wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Well, I think these links clear the matter up. I'll keep my text spoilered, in case you want to keep wondering.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead

Spoiler:

So reading this, they seem to be stating that Jon Snow is unequivocally dead. At the same time, the lengths they go to in saying that, their pretty much saying that Stannis is still alive.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Spoiler:

This pretty much makes it clear that he ain't coming back. Now it could be a shell game... but who knows.

Despite this, i'm sticking with my gut that Snow's not dead. The fact that he has a contract which includes season 7 of the show is telling. The fact that he's shopping movies for next year means very little.

For instance, we saw nothing of bran this season ; they could wait to do anything with snow until the end of 6. Or they could pass season 6 up entirely as they catch up with brans temporally concurrent storyline.


For me, though, real world wise, the fact that he's under contract for the 7th and likely final season, that tells me that Jon Snow isn't dead. I'm sure Kit Harrington has to play along contractually and can't, 72 hours after airing of the "death" blow the secret.

Read the second link mate. He talks about the salary thing there.

 Haight wrote:
The fact that he has a contract which includes season 7 of the show is telling.

the fact that he's under contract for the 7th and likely final season

You're also banking on those rumors to be true, despite no real sources and multiple people (including Kit) denying them. It's also important to remember that just because an actor is signed for X number of seasons, doesn't mean they are guaranteed to actually be in that many.

Personally, I think he's gone from the show.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Now the drawback about this being a show as opposed to the books

The positive thing is that the show is being made - the books may never happen

Jamie is being shown as very much more sympathetic - much to the delight of my female friends - although I do remind them that he has been known to throw children out tower windows with merely a quip..........

His arrival back in KL should be interesting - although why he would not turn the ship around and get the ruler of Dorne to kill the Sand Snakes I don't know....................

The ruler of Dorne is dead. We see wheels and his body guard at the dock seeing off the ship, then when they cut back to the dock, those two are gone. The snake girl could be in charge now, she was wife to his brother, and she'll probably claim Jamie killed the prince and kidnapped or killed his son.

Jamie may or may not turn the ship around to confront her, but he'll have no support there and will have to leave or die.

Could be but they are so apparently stupid that I think they just watched the ship go knowing Marcella was dying.

You are forgetting that the Ruler of Dorne's son and heir was in love with Marcella and is pretty sure to react very badly to this - also I don't think that the leader of the Snakes was a wife - wasn't she just a mistress but mother of his children.

re Jon Snow - looks like he is dead - no loss there...................

If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

 djones520 wrote:

 Haight wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Well, I think these links clear the matter up. I'll keep my text spoilered, in case you want to keep wondering.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead

Spoiler:

So reading this, they seem to be stating that Jon Snow is unequivocally dead. At the same time, the lengths they go to in saying that, their pretty much saying that Stannis is still alive.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview

Spoiler:

This pretty much makes it clear that he ain't coming back. Now it could be a shell game... but who knows.

Despite this, i'm sticking with my gut that Snow's not dead. The fact that he has a contract which includes season 7 of the show is telling. The fact that he's shopping movies for next year means very little.

For instance, we saw nothing of bran this season ; they could wait to do anything with snow until the end of 6. Or they could pass season 6 up entirely as they catch up with brans temporally concurrent storyline.


For me, though, real world wise, the fact that he's under contract for the 7th and likely final season, that tells me that Jon Snow isn't dead. I'm sure Kit Harrington has to play along contractually and can't, 72 hours after airing of the "death" blow the secret.

Read the second link mate. He talks about the salary thing there.

I know, but it couldn't be a more ambiguous "No really !" statement. He says, in one paragraph "No really, he's dead, but that's all i know, and if anything is different its in Dan and George's head."

Also he never actually DENIES the salary thing. He just said it made him mad - which public release of your salary conditions would do that to a person especially if it tangentially provided some indication that a major cliff hanger of the show not written about in the books (yet) was not real.

Kit Harrington isn't a stupid person. By now he's probably got a knack for how to double new speak to media while not breaking NDA's. There's a lot of double speak in the below excerpt. He never addresses that he's contracted through season 7. He says "i'm not coming back next season", but says nothing about season 7 or coming back for it.

Like i said, i'm sticking to my gut on this one. Snow's death in uncharacteristic for many reasons. Loved characters have died horrifically on screen (Rob, Catelyn, etc) before. Snow just lumps over and stares upward dead-eyed. The only reason Ned didn't die in a horrific fashion is that its told from Arya's perspective, in which she didn't actually look at it happening and the scene played that through. So it's fairly uncharacteristic for a main or supporting character of meaning's death.


I very well might be wrong, but my BS-ometer is spiking at this. There's just a few things that are too convenient. I also think that Melisandre knows that Jon Snow is her chosen reborn of Azog Azai (spelling ?) and it was not Stannis, that Jon Snow is him reborn and his destiny is to repel the White Walkers like Azai. I think she knew he had to die and be resurrected to fulfill that destiny due to his oath. *shrug* Just my take on it.

I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?

This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know they’re being whacked]. And they said, “Look, you’re gone, it’s done.” And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I don’t know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. It’s going to put questions into your head and into fans’ heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, “This is how it is.” If anything in the future is not like that, then I don’t know about it – it’s only in David and Dan and George’s heads. But I’ve been told I’m dead. I’m dead. I’m not coming back next season. So that’s all I can tell you, really."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tyr13 wrote:
If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

I agree with you. Melisandre's goal is to find Azog Azai reborn ; she thought it was Stannis until she met Snow. But she also tested Stannis' faith and resolve and he failed (several times). It's not for no reason that she keeps trying to make the people she tempts and test do things against their character and will. She met Snow and realized that was Azai reborn when she couldn't tempt him. She just has to get him released of his oath. Death ends Jon's watch, his oath is fulfilled, he's already passed at least one of her test of faith and resolve. She probably thinks he's Azai reborn meant to repel the White Walkers.

I also think Ghosts conspicuous absence here plays a part, but i could be wrong (i bring this up as you mention warging... not sure it'll go that direction, but you never know). All i know is that Ghost not being around is conspicuous to me.

It makes a lot of sense.

 Tyr13 wrote:
If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

Melisandre has never shown any ability to heal - never mind bring back the dead - that's only happened once and was not her. She is also the only one who knows about burning children - why would she tell anyone - I think she went back because she is desperate - she certainly looked it when she arrived.

The show is absolutely not the books (and is moving further and further away thank god) - we need to remember this.

Why did she go back to the wall - where else would she go?

All thus books stuff about Azog whoever is almost certainly irrelevant to the show - same with Jon warging

Ghost was not there because "budget" - a couple of shots of a big wolf or a huge Dragon - only one answer really

Think Brienne didn't opt out Stannis (TV series) being she seen how the Lannisters run things. Go with the lesser whacked job knowing Stannis will more then likely feed them into the fire
I'm sure she took the leg and applied a tourniquet

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:
If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

Melisandre has never shown any ability to heal - never mind bring back the dead - that's only happened once and was not her. She is also the only one who knows about burning children - why would she tell anyone - I think she went back because she is desperate - she certainly looked it when she arrived.

The show is absolutely not the books (and is moving further and further away thank god) - we need to remember this.

Why did she go back to the wall - where else would she go?

All thus books stuff about Azog whoever is almost certainly irrelevant to the show - same with Jon warging

Ghost was not there because "budget" - a couple of shots of a big wolf or a huge Dragon - only one answer really

Re: Healing: Neither did Thoros of Myr in the books. He was shown to be the least pious a priest can be, and when Berric died, he tried this old ritual hed been taught, because he had nothing left to lose. Cant hurt to try after all. The point of that being, its a ritual that he, a pretty ungodly priest, knows about. So pious Melisandre would *definitely* know it. Wether itd work is another question, but it might.


Re: Books: True, but Azor Ahai could very well be *the* most imprtant thing in the books. Turning back the Long Night/White Walkers is the whole point, from the first scene of the first episode onwards. everything else is just a diversion. And D&D *did* say theyd end up in the same place as the books.

Re: Why go back: She couldve gone to Eastwatch by the Sea and taken a ship to Braavos. She couldve headed south, now the blizzards had gone. She couldve assumed a new identity, or gone somewhere noone wouldve known her. She couldve gone to the Lannisters, telling them shed tricked Stannis into a situation where he couldnt win. Shed have had lots of options. Going back north, where the Wildlings pray to very flammable trees, and whos king she burned, where the watch would just see her as a new mouth to feed, or worse, as something to be raped now shes no longer protected by a king... Never mind about the White Walkers and their dead army. In the books, she stayed behind, and that was a sensible choice, and a good reason why shed be there. But tracking back north, with no one to help her, in winter?? Thats just stupid, unless youve got a very good reason.

Re: Azor Ahai: If its the key to winning over the White Walkers and the Long Night, its unlikely these things are irrelevant. As I said, D&D said theyd end up in ths same place, and Azor Ahai is the most likely, if not the only, way youll get there.

I do agree about ghost though.

They can also pull it off as, "Guest actor" as opposed to cast member.

My theory... Final scene of next season, they go to the wall, after only been there maybe a couple of times for the rest of the season.

Jon's funeral, buried with the Valyrian sword on his chest, pyre, fire and all that sort of thing. Except... the body doesn't burn.

At that point, Mel brings him back to life, maybe killing herself in the process.

Final scene of the season, Jon standing there, wreathed in flame, raising Longclaw, which is now, of course, also flickering in flame. - This is all as a deliberate reference to Dany in the season 1 finale.

 Tyr13 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:
If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

Melisandre has never shown any ability to heal - never mind bring back the dead - that's only happened once and was not her. She is also the only one who knows about burning children - why would she tell anyone - I think she went back because she is desperate - she certainly looked it when she arrived.

The show is absolutely not the books (and is moving further and further away thank god) - we need to remember this.

Why did she go back to the wall - where else would she go?

All thus books stuff about Azog whoever is almost certainly irrelevant to the show - same with Jon warging

Ghost was not there because "budget" - a couple of shots of a big wolf or a huge Dragon - only one answer really

Re: Healing: Neither did Thoros of Myr in the books. He was shown to be the least pious a priest can be, and when Berric died, he tried this old ritual hed been taught, because he had nothing left to lose. Cant hurt to try after all. The point of that being, its a ritual that he, a pretty ungodly priest, knows about. So pious Melisandre would *definitely* know it. Wether itd work is another question, but it might.


Re: Books: True, but Azor Ahai could very well be *the* most imprtant thing in the books. Turning back the Long Night/White Walkers is the whole point, from the first scene of the first episode onwards. everything else is just a diversion. And D&D *did* say theyd end up in the same place as the books.

Re: Why go back: She couldve gone to Eastwatch by the Sea and taken a ship to Braavos. She couldve headed south, now the blizzards had gone. She couldve assumed a new identity, or gone somewhere noone wouldve known her. She couldve gone to the Lannisters, telling them shed tricked Stannis into a situation where he couldnt win. Shed have had lots of options. Going back north, where the Wildlings pray to very flammable trees, and whos king she burned, where the watch would just see her as a new mouth to feed, or worse, as something to be raped now shes no longer protected by a king... Never mind about the White Walkers and their dead army. In the books, she stayed behind, and that was a sensible choice, and a good reason why shed be there. But tracking back north, with no one to help her, in winter?? Thats just stupid, unless youve got a very good reason.

Re: Azor Ahai: If its the key to winning over the White Walkers and the Long Night, its unlikely these things are irrelevant. As I said, D&D said theyd end up in ths same place, and Azor Ahai is the most likely, if not the only, way youll get there.

I do agree about ghost though.

Re the healing /resurrecting - apart from one unique character this has never been shown in the show? The whole Lady Stoneheart stuff is not there - and lets face GRM forgot about her and her friends anyway. The only one who could bring back the dead did not seem to be acting like a Red Priest.

Melisandre has never claimed, acted to talked as if she could do these things - she can kill through magic and has some prophecy powers - which are unreliable but that's about it. It would be a bit of cop out for her to suddenly be bringing back people left, right and centre.

Azoh - well again that's the books - has he ever been mentioned in the Show - ending in the same place might just be the Walkers are defeated (or indeed win / compromise) - who and how are responsible maybe completely different - the destination may be the same but the passengers and journey very different. They have cut most of the dross out of the books for the show.This Azor bloke might be important in the books (or not) and dragonfire and valyrian steel might do it in the show.


going back - we don't know how far the magic thaw reached - looked like maybe just to Winterfell and not totally there - I think she just panicked and is unsure of what to do. Everything has fallen apart for her......... The Watch is falling apart and virtually non-existent - guarding a wall that can't be held - the wildlings are the new force there.

In one interview, he stated that his character was dead and that he isn't in next season.

That doesn't mean he isn't in season 7.

@Mr.Morden: Azor Ahai has been mentioned to death by Mel in the series... Every single time she referred to Stannis/told him that he was the true Son of Fire, the Champion of Light, etc... Right from her intro in season two, with her stunt about Stannis gaining Lightbringer - the mythical sword used by Azor Ahai.

The story is all about the conflict between Rhollor and The Great Other - Fire vs. Ice.
The whole Westeros fighting for control of the Iron Throne is the huge tragedy of it all, because outside of the Starks, all of Westeros has forgotten it's own history and instead concern themselves over trival, egotistical & selfish plots.

Currently there are only two characters who actually could fit the prophecy of "the Prince who was promised" (which was also highlighted in season 2, though it was done in a way that most non-book readers would never have understood it's significance...)
Azor Ahai is 'the Prince who was promised'.

The show has put a veritable craptonne of hints and foreshadowing about him into place. There's no way they all of a sudden up and decide to drop that whole arc, considering it's more freaking important to the main story than the entire King's Landing/War of the Five Kings plots.

Let's just assume that Jon is dead. So...what changes? The Wall is lost anyway as The Nightwatch is in chaos and there's no reinforcements for them as the rest of the continent is at war themselves and with no sovereign ruler, they're screwed. The Wildlings lost their connection the Nightwatch and will most likely be extremely pissed or rather betray the Crows without thinking twice. The Wall will be taken and there's noone to defend it. This move will then alert the rest of the rulers and finally make them think about defending the North first before losing themselves in their own battles.

Now...Jon has fulfilled most of his job. After all, who was Jon Snow? He was a terrible leader. He pushed all with power away and made them his enemies. He kept most of his stuff to himself, further losing his brother's trust. He spent most of is time befrieding a loser - and I know we have our resident Sam fanboys, but objectively, he's a loser. A coward who cannot fight and has no power. Worthless at The Wall.

Just look at it from a Crow's perspective. Their "leader" did not have backup to begin with, he always showed that he didn't care about what they thought about his decisions, he turned his back at them on several occasions and rather left the wall to ally with some Wildlings instead of staying at "their" side of The Wall. No experience, no standing, no allies, repeatedly showing weakness (e.g. sending Sam away from The Wall). Snow was done for and there was no other end for him but death.

Jon Snow is dead. That is for sure. He will stay dead. He might return as The Champion of Light, but Jon Snow, the character, is dead.

Experiment 626 wrote:
@Mr.Morden: Azor Ahai has been mentioned to death by Mel in the series... Every single time she referred to Stannis/told him that he was the true Son of Fire, the Champion of Light, etc... Right from her intro in season two, with her stunt about Stannis gaining Lightbringer - the mythical sword used by Azor Ahai.

The story is all about the conflict between Rhollor and The Great Other - Fire vs. Ice.
The whole Westeros fighting for control of the Iron Throne is the huge tragedy of it all, because outside of the Starks, all of Westeros has forgotten it's own history and instead concern themselves over trival, egotistical & selfish plots.

Currently there are only two characters who actually could fit the prophecy of "the Prince who was promised" (which was also highlighted in season 2, though it was done in a way that most non-book readers would never have understood it's significance...)
Azor Ahai is 'the Prince who was promised'.

The show has put a veritable craptonne of hints and foreshadowing about him into place. There's no way they all of a sudden up and decide to drop that whole arc, considering it's more freaking important to the main story than the entire King's Landing/War of the Five Kings plots.

Sooo has this Azor Ahai been mentioned by that actual name? I must have forgot if it was - my bad.

As I heard "Champion of Light" as just that - the champion of her God - which may not be a good thing considering he seems to just like burning things. Its a pretty standard thing really - the champion of a specific god.

Its important to book readers maybe and might be important if GRM ever writes any more books but the show is headed of on its own ride - it may arrive in the same rough place in the end- but lots of specifics are already mighty different.

Example:
Lets look at the whole Targaryian thing - in the show there is one and only one - in the books they now seem to be ten a penny .
Dorne have declared for the new Targaryian who Varis is also backing. No mention of their allegiance in the show except the ruler does not want another war. In the show - Varis is totally different - he is backing (or appears to be) Dany with Tyrion - who is not just a circus act .
Dany in the books is besieged by various hostile forces and numerous suitors and is acting like a lovelorn teenager......God those last few books stunk.
Dany in the Show has a rebellious city but no external enemies and may or may not now have the Dothraki back, she is also acting like a strong queen/woman in matters of state and love.

See - very very different......................but still could end the same way - A Targaryian on the throne and dragons against the walkers.

I think early on they had much less freedom from GRM and had to keep throwing these "Easter egg" Book bits and pieces in - now they have almost complete freedom to do what they want and don't have to unless it serves the actual plot and not just to indulge the author.

Kings Landing - very different power structure,

I would agree with Sigvatr about Jon Snow - he kept pushing and pushing the Watch and it was obvious what was going to happen - sending Sam away with his girlfriend was just the last straw - "oh yeah you just head off to pastures new and enjoy life - the rest of you can stay here and die." All that nonsense about Sam studying and coming back -I know the Walkers are very slow but seriously how long will it be before the wall and the North is attacked?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Or they left early?

Yeah, where the feth is he getting that the Prince is dead.

Jon Snow IS dead, period.

But death is not always permanent in this universe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:
If hes dead, why bother bringing Melisandre back to the wall? In the books, she stays behind, so it makes sense for her to be there. But in the show? Why wouldnt she go somwehere else, back across the see or something? Theres nothing for her at the Wall. No believers, no faithful, noone she could be interested in... apart from Jon, who she *did* try to get on her side, and who she seemed pretty interested in. Jon is absolutelöy the only reason why shed risk going back without anyone to protect her. Noone likes priests who burn their friends, burn ltlle children, burn their king beyond the wall. Shes intelligent enough to know that. She knows Ser Davos could very well kill her for burning Shireen and betraying Stannis.
She never showed interest in anyone other than Jon, and even then, I dont believe shed go back if he wasnt important.
And what proof di we have of Jon being dead, with no resurrection or Warging in sight? The word of the producers and actors. Who both have every reason to lie about it.

Melisandre has never shown any ability to heal - never mind bring back the dead - that's only happened once and was not her. She is also the only one who knows about burning children - why would she tell anyone - I think she went back because she is desperate - she certainly looked it when she arrived.

The show is absolutely not the books (and is moving further and further away thank god) - we need to remember this.

Why did she go back to the wall - where else would she go?

All thus books stuff about Azog whoever is almost certainly irrelevant to the show - same with Jon warging

Ghost was not there because "budget" - a couple of shots of a big wolf or a huge Dragon - only one answer really

Neither did Thoros of Myr...until he did.

In fact, I would posit that NO Red Priests have an innate natural ability to resurrect the dead at will. They pray to R'hllor, and he either grants the request or doesn't. Beric Dondarrion served a purpose in R'hllors plan, and so Thoros' prayer was answered.

Jon Snow, a descendant of the Starks (and...those other guys ), a former Lord Commander of the Nights Watch, who commands the respect and friendship of the wildlings, who has a direwolf companion and a magic sword, who happens to be the only real military leader currently focusing on preparing for the Long Night and resisting the White Walkers...Yeah, I'd say R'hllor has a use for him and would be inclined to answer Melisandres prayer.

Hmm maybe. You could be right!

Although I am not sure the Wildlings really like or respect him - didn't seem that way when they arrived at the wall - they seemed tried and beaten and not in a good place - bit like Jon himself.

The Nights Watch hate him - as is pretty evident.

I think R'hilor would prefer Ramsey- he seems quite a sadistic blood sacrifice seeking god, give him a Valyrian steel sword and let him fight the Walkers - I haven't seen him loose any battles

 Mr Morden wrote:
Hmm maybe. You could be right!

Although I am not sure the Wildlings really like or respect him - didn't seem that way when they arrived at the wall - they seemed tried and beaten and not in a good place - bit like Jon himself.

The Nights Watch hate him - as is pretty evident.

I think R'hilor would prefer Ramsey- he seems quite a sadistic blood sacrifice seeking god, give him a Valyrian steel sword and let him fight the Walkers - I haven't seen him loose any battles

Yes but I can't imagine Ramsay making a Nissa Nissa style sacrifice. The only person Ramsay loves is Ramsay.

Also, Ramsay never fights a fair battle anyway, so him never losing is a moot point.

Exactly!

Jon Snow is dead - right now!

And 'Jon Snow" might not be coming back - but just who is 'Jon Snow' really?

And maybe that's who will be 'coming back'?

Maybe?

 Alpharius wrote:
Exactly!

Jon Snow is dead - right now!

And 'Jon Snow" might not be coming back - but just who is 'Jon Snow' really?

And maybe that's who will be 'coming back'?

Maybe?

Maybe. I see that happening though.

Hopefully that is how things end.

Yeah, Jon Snow wont be back. Jon Stark might. Or Jon Targaryen? Who knows.