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Though was mention the HBO was going to finish the books for him.

Any serious author should be humiliated by the TV adaptation of his work overtaking him.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Though was mention the HBO was going to finish the books for him.

Any serious author should be humiliated by the TV adaptation of his work overtaking him.

It's hard to be overtaken or even being motivated to do /something/ when you're swimming in cash.

Well at least he didn't Screw it all up, take the money and Then moan and whine like George Lucas

Maybe the show will make the books good again if he follows their lead

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe the show will make the books good again if he follows their lead

HBO's Dorne looks back at you

Can't say I'm surprised things are turning out like this. As Sigvatr said, when you're literally swimming in cash it must be much more thrilling to go from one convention to the next than doing actual work.

I also believe many, many people will feel disappointed when TWoW finally arrives. It may even be worse than ADwD.

 Korinov wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Maybe the show will make the books good again if he follows their lead

HBO's Dorne looks back at you

Can't say I'm surprised things are turning out like this. As Sigvatr said, when you're literally swimming in cash it must be much more thrilling to go from one convention to the next than doing actual work.

I also believe many, many people will feel disappointed when TWoW finally arrives. It may even be worse than ADwD.

Lets hope not - Dances was pure horse gak :(

Yeah Dorne was not the best but so much else was better

The show is very hit and miss. The only cue GRRM should take from it is to speed the pace by an order of magnitude and progress the story. Things have been bogged down at a snails pace since the Red Wedding.

This is the thread for the HBO series.

It might be a better idea at this point to create a separate 'book-centric' thread?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The show is very hit and miss. The only cue GRRM should take from it is to speed the pace by an order of magnitude and progress the story. Things have been bogged down at a snails pace since the Red Wedding.

IMO he has now got way way too many characters that he has no idea what to do with but feels he needs to write...........the "main" characters themselves are losing coherency and rather than evolving are changing to fit the plot which itself is ramberling and without any clear direction. He needs an editor..........with power.

I honestly think he has got to the point where he has no idea how to end it - the last books were just filler.......apparently avoiding anything meaningful happening.

The show got rid of vast amounts of stodgy padding in terms of story and characters - they also have more of a sense of an actual story going somewhere - I just hope he won't stop them so he can drag in a load of pointless characters........... As has been mentioned the show does swing and miss sometimes but the people/Characters are being crafted far more effectively and maintained as such.

This is the thread for the HBO series. t might be a better idea at this point to create a separate 'book-centric' thread?

Like the Walking Dead - seperating the discussion is difficult and in many ways a similar situtation..............

Not really - it is rather simple, especially as Season 6 and Book 6 are both not out yet.

 Alpharius wrote:
Not really - it is rather simple, especially as Season 6 and Book 6 are both not out yet.

But the show is an adaptation of the book. We can't discuss the show without constant reference to the source material.

Give it a try?

What would it hurt?

The two are clearly diverging now.

And really, it is just you and Morden wishlisting for Season 6 and Book 6 ITT now anyway.

But its a bit pointless separating things now isn't? You'll just end up telling us off for spoiling the story for book readers, now that the show has overtaken the books.

At this rate, we're going to need THREE threads. Show only. Books only. And a third thread for people who watch the show, read the books, and wish to discuss both.

Sure?

It really isn't that complicated.

No worries though - any off topic posts will just get treated as such, so no big deal in the end.

 Alpharius wrote:
Give it a try?

What would it hurt?

The two are clearly diverging now.

And really, it is just you and Morden wishlisting for Season 6 and Book 6 ITT now anyway.

Uhm...you do know that the series and the books are still closely tied? They will differ, but it still is the same story being told. Seperating the source material and the series is pointless. Furthermore, pointing out the difference is interesting for people who watch both the series and read the books.

If we seperate Show and book discussion, this thread will essentially be dead for 9 months in every year. When a season airs and concludes, what else is there to talk about besides the books and their implications for future seasons? I watch the show, and I read the books. I want to discuss both in relation to each other, not in isolation. I agree to follow spoiler etiquette out of respect for people who only follow the show, but it seems that the rules for what can and cannot be discussed in this thread are getting progressively more narrow and arbitrary.

Not at all - again, no worries!

Its confirmed - grrm has missed his deadline. "No on is more disappointed than I am".

For years the guy has derided critics of his writing pace, insisting " it'll be done when its done." Maybe his critics had a point all along.

Grrm is gonna be the new Robert Jordan. But Robert jordan died of an illness at a young age, grrm has no such excuse. Game of throne is his legacy, the thing he ll be remembered for. Now hell be remembered for the humiliation of having his own books spoiled by the adaptation.

The only way I think he can salvage this mess is by

(a) taking more direct involvement in the show, write more episodes, provide more input.
(B) if the show takes a hiatus, and focus on spinoffs for a year or two. They could a movie adaptation of Roberts Rebellion, with a young eddard, Robert, rhaegar etc.

But that could kill the show, because it'd risk losing actors and forcing more recasts. And there's been a lot already. I dont think it could survive the recast of a core character like Jon snow arya sansa daenerys cersei or Jaimie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3382228/No-one-disappointed-Game-Thrones-writer-George-R-R-Martin-admits-Winds-Winter-novel-won-t-finished-season-six-airs.html

Did you just say that dying was an excuse for not meeting a deadline?

GRRM has gone lazy, honestly. The recent books sadly show so. The series will definitely take a hit by this, we could already see that the series' writers aren't as capable as some think they are. Now having to go on without written support is another Dorne in their side.

Happ 4000th post!

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
In the show, it seems they can wear whatever face they like at a whim...

The scene where Jaqen "changes" quickly and magically when he leaves Arya at Harrenhall exists in both the books and the show. It surprised me when they actually needed (and stored) real faces in Braavos.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Arya' s face has not been flayed and turned into a mask, so the dead Faceless Man should not have had her face. <snip> And in the books, the first time Arya is officially sanctioned to use a mask they do something to her...

In the book there is a description of Aria undergoing a process that read a lot like they were removing her actual face and putting on another person's - think Face/Off with Cage and Travolta. That would give the Faceless Men her face.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its confirmed - grrm has missed his deadline. "No on is more disappointed than I am".

For years the guy has derided critics of his writing pace, insisting " it'll be done when its done." Maybe his critics had a point all along.

Grrm is gonna be the new Robert Jordan. But Robert jordan died of an illness at a young age, grrm has no such excuse. Game of throne is his legacy, the thing he ll be remembered for. Now hell be remembered for the humiliation of having his own books spoiled by the adaptation.

The only way I think he can salvage this mess is by

(a) taking more direct involvement in the show, write more episodes, provide more input.
(B) if the show takes a hiatus, and focus on spinoffs for a year or two. They could a movie adaptation of Roberts Rebellion, with a young eddard, Robert, rhaegar etc.

But that could kill the show, because it'd risk losing actors and forcing more recasts. And there's been a lot already. I dont think it could survive the recast of a core character like Jon snow arya sansa daenerys cersei or Jaimie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3382228/No-one-disappointed-Game-Thrones-writer-George-R-R-Martin-admits-Winds-Winter-novel-won-t-finished-season-six-airs.html

If he actually does know the ending and he has communciated it to the studio and the are contuinuing on the same path i am happy. Remember we are already further ahead in some places than the book and it has diverged - in the same way as Walking Dead has diverged from the comics.

Whilst TV Dorne was not awesome (and I got bored by it in the books tbh) they did not ruin Dany's story and character as was done in the books and we did not have to suffer a seemingly andless parade of new Targaryians, Tyrion and Varis are in the right place now - depending on what they are doing with the Dothraki we could seel real progress as to what excatly the Mother of Dragons final fate would be. Stoylines that GRM has forgotten/ignored like Lady Stoneheart are not an issue in the show.

The last thing that is needed (I think) is GRM's more direct involvement - he should sit back, watch and adapt his story.................

 Breotan wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
In the show, it seems they can wear whatever face they like at a whim...

The scene where Jaqen "changes" quickly and magically when he leaves Arya at Harrenhall exists in both the books and the show. It surprised me when they actually needed (and stored) real faces in Braavos.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Arya' s face has not been flayed and turned into a mask, so the dead Faceless Man should not have had her face. <snip> And in the books, the first time Arya is officially sanctioned to use a mask they do something to her...

In the book there is a description of Aria undergoing a process that read a lot like they were removing her actual face and putting on another person's - think Face/Off with Cage and Travolta. That would give the Faceless Men her face.

They carry masks with them, and use them to assume that persons identity. But jaqen displays the ability to use Aryas face, which should be impossible because her face has never been harvested. Its a direct contradiction of how their magic is shown to work in the show and the books (reanimating the skinned faces of their victims/supplicants).

Why bother with masks then, if they dont actually need them and can assume the face of someone whose face has not been harvested and turned into a mask?

Arya having her face harvested has not yet happened on the show, so jaqen should not have been able to assume her face. Its internally inconsistent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Its confirmed - grrm has missed his deadline. "No on is more disappointed than I am".

For years the guy has derided critics of his writing pace, insisting " it'll be done when its done." Maybe his critics had a point all along.

Grrm is gonna be the new Robert Jordan. But Robert jordan died of an illness at a young age, grrm has no such excuse. Game of throne is his legacy, the thing he ll be remembered for. Now hell be remembered for the humiliation of having his own books spoiled by the adaptation.

The only way I think he can salvage this mess is by

(a) taking more direct involvement in the show, write more episodes, provide more input.
(B) if the show takes a hiatus, and focus on spinoffs for a year or two. They could a movie adaptation of Roberts Rebellion, with a young eddard, Robert, rhaegar etc.

But that could kill the show, because it'd risk losing actors and forcing more recasts. And there's been a lot already. I dont think it could survive the recast of a core character like Jon snow arya sansa daenerys cersei or Jaimie.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3382228/No-one-disappointed-Game-Thrones-writer-George-R-R-Martin-admits-Winds-Winter-novel-won-t-finished-season-six-airs.html

If he actually does know the ending and he has communciated it to the studio and the are contuinuing on the same path i am happy. Remember we are already further ahead in some places than the book and it has diverged - in the same way as Walking Dead has diverged from the comics.

Whilst TV Dorne was not awesome (and I got bored by it in the books tbh) they did not ruin Dany's story and character as was done in the books and we did not have to suffer a seemingly andless parade of new Targaryians, Tyrion and Varis are in the right place now - depending on what they are doing with the Dothraki we could seel real progress as to what excatly the Mother of Dragons final fate would be. Stoylines that GRM has forgotten/ignored like Lady Stoneheart are not an issue in the show.

The last thing that is needed (I think) is GRM's more direct involvement - he should sit back, watch and adapt his story.................

But the problem with that is they're going to working with a bare bones outline of a book, and will have to fill in many details themselves. We've seen how much the quality of the show suffered when they went off script and began making original scenes of their own design.

It won't affect season 6 so much because a large part of book6 has been written already and they have a lot of material to work with, but for season 7 8 and probably 9 they're going to be winging it.

Is another explanation for the Arya thing, well drugs?

But the problem with that is they're going to working with a bare bones outline of a book, and will have to fill in many details themselves. We've seen how much the quality of the show suffered when they went off script and began making original scenes of their own design.

It won't affect season 6 so much because a large part of book6 has been written already and they have a lot of material to work with, but for season 7 8 and probably 9 they're going to be winging it.

Disagree - we have seen (arguably) the quality of the books take a near vertical nose dive and the show has avoided most of the tiresome sludge that generated ......... The Meerem storyline is much much better in the show and the Westros storyline has been condensed to be at least coherent - it appears that the army of Ice might actually do something (in the show at least) other than wonder around aimlessly.

We have not had too much of the "not elves" although I guess we might have to suffer some in the next season if they pick up the Bram story (sooo dull)

Is it really scheduled fro that many seasons? I hope they can retain the main cast - otherwise we will see more deaths - Margery was already missing from the latter half of the last season - but Ms Dormer was very busy - hopefully we will see what occured there - is she free/ still imprisoned / somewhere else............

7 seasons minimum.

But GRRM is notorious for padding out his books and splitting them up. The Winds of Winter will more or less = Season 6, and theres only one more book planned after that, Dream of Spring, but he might end up writing too much material and decide to stretch the series to 8 books.

Have to remember.....magic is coming back due to the dragons....I swear I read that somewhere....I think..

 Jihadin wrote:
Have to remember.....magic is coming back due to the dragons....I swear I read that somewhere....I think..

That seems to be the commonly held idea - of course the ice magic stuff seemed to work just fine with or without the Dragons?

It might a cyclic thing like shadowrun?

 Jihadin wrote:
Have to remember.....magic is coming back due to the dragons....I swear I read that somewhere....I think..

Yes the Faceless Men use magic, but from we know they still depend on a collection of physical masks from skinned faces. Their magic revolves around reanimating the flesh of the mask and bonding it with the wearer temporarily. They don't have the ability to manifest faces of people whose faces have not been harvested and turned into masks. They cannot manifest the face of Eddard Stark or Joffrey Baratheon, or still living people such as Daenerys Targaryen or Jaime Lannister - their faces have not been harvested and turned into masks.

The scene when Arya goes blind and the Faceless Man takes on her appearance is both internally consistent with the show's own lore, and inconsistent the book lore because they don't have her face yet.



Hell, the dragons bringing magic back into the world may well be what allowed the Faceless to use these magic masks in the first place, or to begin using them again.

I thought the red comet signaled the return of magic. Still, GRRM does mention in the books that spells are stronger in areas where magical creatures are.

 Breotan wrote:
I thought the red comet signaled the return of magic. Still, GRRM does mention in the books that spells are stronger in areas where magical creatures are.

Well its all semantics really, and opinions differ even in-universe.

April 24th for the new series