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 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
On an already expensive unit that has extra initiative, they aren't exactly useful...

Yeah, if I had a unit with a bunch of Sonic Blasters, I'd hold em steady on an objectivr behind cover, and use them for pure cover-ignoring-dakka. Add a IoE to help them deal with incoming fire, and use 1 or 2 Blastmasters for extra punch.

Not cheap, I know, and would it be effective? No clue...this is all playing out in my head so far. I've never even seen anyone play with Noise Marines as of yet.

Noise marines can actually be really fun to use. Blastmasters are decent, and the sonic blasters make for good point defense, but they need to stay still, plus they're about 20 points a model if they have the blasters, so, yeah, they're fun, but you pay for those

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Noise marines can actually be really fun to use. Blastmasters are decent, and the sonic blasters make for good point defense, but they need to stay still, plus they're about 20 points a model if they have the blasters, so, yeah, they're fun, but you pay for those

I'm used to playing Deathguard and 1k Sons, so 20 ppm seems like a bargain to me

 jasper76 wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
On an already expensive unit that has extra initiative, they aren't exactly useful...

Yeah, if I had a unit with a bunch of Sonic Blasters, I'd hold em steady on an objectivr behind cover, and use them for pure dakka. Add a IoE to help them deal with incoming fire, and use 1 or 2 Blastmasters for extra punch.

Not cheap, I know, and would it be effective? No clue...this is all playing out in my head so far. I've never even seen anyone play with Noise Marines as of yet.

I played exclusive Slaanesh for the longest time, it's not, it's overexpensive in an army already plagued with expenses and overinflated costs for poor choices.

The problem is they are still Bolters, most things that hit the backfield to try and push objectives are not going to be GEQ Equivalents.

They aren't fast, they are purely stationary. They are already expensive, punching them up to near 20 points per model with sonic guns. They only deal massed rate of S4 fire, and if that really was that effective Dark Angels would be god tier due to their Dakka Flag. The ignores cover is useless in most cases short of dealing with a very specific subset of enemy that has poor armor but really high stealth/shroud.

The Blastmaster is good, the Doom Siren is good, the sonic guns are not, and on a backfield you might as well just stick with bolter/double blastmaster, or even just rolling them around bare with blastmasters in rhino instead as it makes them relentless.

 jasper76 wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
Noise marines can actually be really fun to use. Blastmasters are decent, and the sonic blasters make for good point defense, but they need to stay still, plus they're about 20 points a model if they have the blasters, so, yeah, they're fun, but you pay for those

I'm used to playing Deathguard and 1k Sons, so 20 ppm seems like a bargain to me

Indeed they are if you're playing T-sons and deathguard, but for regular marines and whatnot, it's a lot. I also play guard more, so, that might be influencing my opinion here on model cost

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
On an already expensive unit that has extra initiative, they aren't exactly useful...

Yeah, if I had a unit with a bunch of Sonic Blasters, I'd hold em steady on an objectivr behind cover, and use them for pure dakka. Add a IoE to help them deal with incoming fire, and use 1 or 2 Blastmasters for extra punch.

Not cheap, I know, and would it be effective? No clue...this is all playing out in my head so far. I've never even seen anyone play with Noise Marines as of yet.

The Blastmaster is good, the Doom Siren is good, the sonic guns are not, and on a backfield you might as well just stick with bolter/double blastmaster, or even just rolling them around bare with blastmasters in rhino instead as it makes them relentless.

How does a Rhino give a unit Relentless?

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Combat Speed count as having moved that turn".

 jasper76 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
On an already expensive unit that has extra initiative, they aren't exactly useful...

Yeah, if I had a unit with a bunch of Sonic Blasters, I'd hold em steady on an objectivr behind cover, and use them for pure dakka. Add a IoE to help them deal with incoming fire, and use 1 or 2 Blastmasters for extra punch.

Not cheap, I know, and would it be effective? No clue...this is all playing out in my head so far. I've never even seen anyone play with Noise Marines as of yet.

The Blastmaster is good, the Doom Siren is good, the sonic guns are not, and on a backfield you might as well just stick with bolter/double blastmaster, or even just rolling them around bare with blastmasters in rhino instead as it makes them relentless.

How does a Rhino give a unit Relentless?

"Models firing out of a vehicle that moved at Combat Speed count as having moved that turn".

I have no clue what I was thinking with that, either way the rest applies. It's too expensive to just sit there at 20 points per model (more with blast), and just be there to threaten things at 24". Also doesn't help that the blastmasters want to be targetting MEQ at range. It's kind of the reason why people tend to take cultist backfield and gtg with them for cheap point holding.

I do see your points. The Ignores Cover bit would help me out because I am playing against IG and Orks alot. We do roll for night fighting, and one of the IG players likes to camp his soldiers in cover, and go to ground when alot of AP shots are coming his way.

For the same reason, when I play Nids I like to bring Hive Guard even though everyone gaks on them, because the Ignores Cover helps me out alot.

Clarification:

For those who had been discussing Noise Marines as CC troops after my initial idea. This is what I had envisaged:

Noise Marines:
x9 Noise Marines
Wargear: Bolt pistol and Close Combat Weapon (Any noise Marine may replace his boltgun with a close combat weapon for free)

x1 Noise Champion
Wargear: Bolt pistol and Power Sword, Doom Siren

Squad have Initiative 5, x2 CC attacks (x3 on Champion) and x1 Str 5 AP 3 Assault 1 template.
Icon of Excess

225 Points total
or 260 Points if you give them a Rhino with Dirge Casters.


Compare this to bare-bone raptors (x10) at 180pts and yes they appear more expensive. Add on the toys for the raptors such as the marks and icons though such as the weaker flamer weapon, power weapon on champion and so on and you end up with a slightly less expensive (250pts) squad, but with a worse template weapon and without the Dirge Caster protection OR the protection of a metal bawks.

Both are good options, but I think I'd go for the Noise Marines unless my Elites slot was needed for other units. They seem tougher and more likely to reach their target - depending on situation.


Plus... who knows what's in the metal bawks until it disembarks? It could just be a tactical squad - surprise! Raptors running, you know what's coming - dakka dakka dakka

any way, this is just an idea. I'm sure someone with a neckbeard will say 'you're wrong rah bah rah' but if you like it, try it

Uh, anyone who asks their opponent "Hey, what's in that Rhino?"

Besides, you're ingoring that raptors also move 12 and can assault along with possibly getting hammer of wrath and the option for melta guns.

I think you're missing the point of noise marines if you're not taking a blast master. Str 8 AP3 breaks face, especially when it ignores cover.

At the end of the day, none of the cult units are really worth taking unless they're troops anyway, and even then it's a niche case.

 Drasius wrote:
Uh, anyone who asks their opponent "Hey, what's in that Rhino?"

A) 'What's in the Rhino?'
B) 'Noise Marines'
A) 'Oh right, well, they won't be doing much with their blast masters in a rhino for a few turns'

Play as expected, get countered as expected. Unless your games go as follow?

A) 'What's in the Rhino?'
B) 'Please allow me to read out all the weapons options and upgrades for each unit each time you ask that question, wasting time we could actually be playing'
A) 'Yay, I love numbers and consulting pages of information in the middle of a war'

Yes, show your opponent before the game starts if you share lists, as is common courtesy but I bet they won't be expecting or have set up a counter for that.

 Drasius wrote:

Besides, you're ingoring that raptors also move 12 and can assault along with possibly getting hammer of wrath and the option for melta guns.

Those meltas are worrying for those two guys who *may* get hit. While that Doom Siren can decimate an entire squad on it's own. Use the meltas for vehicle hunting.
Rhinos can move fast too - true you can't disembark that turn but they aren't a slouch and will face better against enemy fire.

 Drasius wrote:

I think you're missing the point of noise marines if you're not taking a blast master. Str 8 AP3 breaks face, especially when it ignores cover.

Yes, if you're standing still as expected and camping with an expensive unit (which can be done better by cultsits)

 Drasius wrote:

At the end of the day, none of the cult units are really worth taking unless they're troops anyway, and even then it's a niche case.

Plague marines seem to do just fine. And Noise marines.

Isnt a Doom Siren on a close combat-equipped Noise Marine squad counter productive? You only increase the charge range if you kill guys with the template.

Also, your Noise Marine cc-loadout can be performed better by Slaaneshi Raptors who also have I5 and the added bonus of HoW and re-rollable charge range before they assault on turn 2, while your guys have to disembark from a rhino and wither an entire turn of enemy fire (just like the raptors) but only assault on turn 3 earliest.

Furthermore, 2 meltas and a combi-melta mean the raptors can also threaten armor and put some nasty wounds on MCs before charging.

I'm not saying it's super awesome. Dirge casters on the rhino To negate that 'withering snap snooting'. You don't have to template the nearest guy, you can choose where it aims. I'm point out the obvious here :/

I also compared them to Slaaneshi raptors in my longer post?

Either way, it's an interestingalternative which is all I've said.

Dire Casters only wirk within 6", though. So you have to be reeeeealy close with your vehicle to the enemy squad, giving you barely enough room for disembarking for it to work.

I played against them once, and they are really fun.

 Wulfmar wrote:
You don't have to template the nearest guy, you can choose where it aims. I'm point out the obvious here :/

casualties are still removed starting from the nearest enemy model to your unit.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
You don't have to template the nearest guy, you can choose where it aims. I'm point out the obvious here :/

casualties are still removed starting from the nearest enemy model to your unit.

That's a fair point actually, forgot about that crappy rule - it's as frustrating as the blast template that hits the rear of the unit, yet kills the guys at the front

 Wulfmar wrote:
Clarification:

For those who had been discussing Noise Marines as CC troops after my initial idea. This is what I had envisaged:

Noise Marines:
x9 Noise Marines
Wargear: Bolt pistol and Close Combat Weapon (Any noise Marine may replace his boltgun with a close combat weapon for free)

x1 Noise Champion
Wargear: Bolt pistol and Power Sword, Doom Siren

Squad have Initiative 5, x2 CC attacks (x3 on Champion) and x1 Str 5 AP 3 Assault 1 template.
Icon of Excess

225 Points total
or 260 Points if you give them a Rhino with Dirge Casters.


Compare this to bare-bone raptors (x10) at 180pts and yes they appear more expensive. Add on the toys for the raptors such as the marks and icons though such as the weaker flamer weapon, power weapon on champion and so on and you end up with a slightly less expensive (250pts) squad, but with a worse template weapon and without the Dirge Caster protection OR the protection of a metal bawks.

Both are good options, but I think I'd go for the Noise Marines unless my Elites slot was needed for other units. They seem tougher and more likely to reach their target - depending on situation.


Plus... who knows what's in the metal bawks until it disembarks? It could just be a tactical squad - surprise! Raptors running, you know what's coming - dakka dakka dakka

any way, this is just an idea. I'm sure someone with a neckbeard will say 'you're wrong rah bah rah' but if you like it, try it

Except the Raptors can take Melta Guns and therefore engage more targets, aren't sitting ducks because of the Rhino, and can easily aquire the Icon for not much more expensive.
It is simply bad to do the Noise Marine Loadouts you listed.

Oh jeez us its like people aren't actually reading the posts OR the thread before posting.

well the verdict is ranged noise marines are the better option

oh I never said they weren't! Ranged noise marines are very good.

I just suggested an alternative for fun that could function, but as usual some people (not you Arun) haven't read the thread and are doing the usual 'jump down the throat' of anyone who suggests anything different to the power gaming meta

Let me explain how I've run noise marines in a rhino to make them work. To start with you don't take ten man squads. 6-8 do fine. You give the champ the doomsiren and a power fist. The rhino has a dirge caster.

You drive up and disembark next to the enemy. The doom siren does a real good job of thining the squad down. There is very little that it can't kill. Next turn, you just suck up the incoming fire. Hopefully thanks to the doom siren the closest enemy unit is somewhat devistated. The nearby rhino blocking LOS to some enemy fire. Now, fearless, 3+ armor save and FNP will keep your squad alive and staying put.

Next turn you move your rhino up next to the enemy unit you want to charge. Now you move your guys up and charge in. The enemy gets no overwatch. You can choose to flame them again if you want, but I just like to charge in. Your guys get 3 attacks each at I5 and the champion may or may not get to do anything because of challenges, but thats a fault of the codex not unit specific.

Raptors are nice, but take up FA slots that Heldrakes and bikers and spawn use. Noise marine troops really do not fight against anything else for space. Also Raptors do not get dirge caster rhinos, something that Maulerfiends, bikers, spawn etc. love to see up field. The noise marine rhino may not be better served blocking for the noise marines, but something else in the army.

Anyway, I've always liked my CC noise marines, they usually make for a great support unit. Its just too bad that assault has been nerfed to the point that it has.

I typically run Noise Marines with much success. I take 10 in a squad with 2 Blastmasters. I park them in a Rhino and fire my Blastmasters with impunity. The AP3 and Ignore Cover really help to keep your opponent's head down.

 Suicidal.Simian wrote:
I typically run Noise Marines with much success. I take 10 in a squad with 2 Blastmasters. I park them in a Rhino and fire my Blastmasters with impunity. The AP3 and Ignore Cover really help to keep your opponent's head down.

How do you equip your other 8 Marines?

Typically he'll have just bolter marines.

And that's my problem with them, I want Sonicblasters to be worthwhile!

I'll probably end up modeling some SB models and play them against Orks, which I play against quite alot. I'm facing alot of Green Tide type stuff lately. I bet a unit of 5 or 6 w/ Sonicblasters and a Blastmaster wouldn't hurt perched somewhere high. Orks always just come rushing in.

I'm gonna convert the lot of it, I think using Heavy Bolters as the basis for Sonic Blaster conversions, and I've only got so many HBs laying around anyhow.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Typically he'll have just bolter marines.

And that's my problem with them, I want Sonicblasters to be worthwhile!

Bolters it is. I run Sonic Blasters on the squad that is going to be assaulting or objective grabbing or harassing.

Salvo is irritating because of its limitations.

Hopefully if there's a Daemonkin codex for Slaneesh they'll be some Relentless available to NMs through a formation or something. I play Necrons primarily, and the new Codex is giving it away for free to every formation that isn't a vehicle formation. Surely Noise Marines are more worthy of Relentless fluff-wise than Necrons.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Suicidal.Simian wrote:
I typically run Noise Marines with much success. I take 10 in a squad with 2 Blastmasters. I park them in a Rhino and fire my Blastmasters with impunity. The AP3 and Ignore Cover really help to keep your opponent's head down.

How do you equip your other 8 Marines?

If it was me, I'd actually give them the CCW upgrade. Use the Blastmasters when ever possible and dare someone to charge into you when the rhino eventually pops.

The only guys who get sonic blasters are guys who are already camped on an objective and are never going to move.