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If you have to use WAAC as a term to define a player/play style either the game you're playing is broken or you're not playing to win (e.g. Scrub, per definition). And in a game with opposing players, you're supposed to be playing to win.
Am I the only person that quit 40k and now want to play again just for the hilarity that is this release? If this is all true and not typos, oh man,... XD
Yaavaragefinkinman wrote: Even us orks with our lootas(now in heavy support *groan*) can't put out such a stupid amount of high strength dakka while maintaining FOC. You might as well call it cheating unless your army averages AV13 (necron cheese) or can fly (necron cheese) you are pretty damn screwed.
can your lottas move 12" and still hit on 3s? do your lootas have garunteed 4 shots a shooting phase? do your lootas have marine aromor save + 4+ jink?
put this in perspective,
1 Ravenwing bike is 27 ppm
one kitted out Eldar bike is 27ppm
eldar are faster, more shooty, and only worse in CC (where they shouldn't ever get)
It astounds me that people whos profession (I use that in a lose term) is rules writing for a table top game can be so incompetant at actually writing rules.
This would be something that would get laughed off proposed rules forum in a heartbeat. In fact, I've not seen anything as bad as this on there in a long long time.
How did they allow this to actually pass muster? There must have been somebody double checking it right? It is after all a multimillion pound business, no matter how low our opinion of it is.
Do they have nobody on their staff AT ALL that understands simple maths and/or the competitive scene?
I've never been so shocked at a GW blunder. Not even a tenth as flabberghasted. Not with serpent shields, not with the typhon, not with wraiths. This just completely bowls over all the others. I know I've already said this but it can't be stated enough!
If it's this bad, I'm just going to refuse to play against it and be no worse off. I might play a few less games but I might also convince a few people not to bring cheesy units.
gmaleron wrote: How is this overpowered? All you have to take are vehicles and you will be perfectly fine.
Because
(a) After that 1080 points, you can dump almost the entire rest of the army into AT, and
(b) With Eldar psychic powers, you can (probably) just make all of these jetbikes pseudo-rending and then blast every vehicle through Land Raiders to death.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Not a typo, atleast not on the part of the person putting up the info. Might be a typo in the White Dwarf but that's about the LEAST likely thing to happen, right? And there's no video of the inside of the White Dwarf. Shows it true.
I think we all need to buy more jetbikes.
Will also say, they can all also have Shuriken Cannons too and Bladestorm is still fully active.
we sure it's not a mistranslation?
It's literally there in English in the video that got posted in News & Rumors.
EDIT: Photo
*SHOTS FIRED*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/15 21:41:47
Armies I play:
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
Mechanicus -1850 pts
It astounds me that people whos profession (I use that in a lose term) is rules writing for a table top game can be so incompetant at actually writing rules.
This would be something that would get laughed off proposed rules forum in a heartbeat. In fact, I've not seen anything as bad as this on there in a long long time.
How did they allow this to actually pass muster? There must have been somebody double checking it right? It is after all a multimillion pound business, no matter how low our opinion of it is.
Do they have nobody on their staff AT ALL that understands simple maths and/or the competitive scene?
I've never been so shocked at a GW blunder. Not even a tenth as flabberghasted. Not with serpent shields, not with the typhon, not with wraiths. This just completely bowls over all the others. I know I've already said this but it can't be stated enough!
Right with you buddy. I thought they were done surprising me with their incompetence. How wrong I was.
Necrons and Demons and Imperial Knights the sky is eternally falling with you scrubs.
thunderfire cannons, drop pods, flying hive tyrants will all do well point for point against jest bikes
av 13 tanks Sicaran things like that
wolf star, plague drones ,screamer star ,grav star
half the things necrons have
any thing with a 2+ cover and any ability in close combat will wreck face.
Bike spam will do very well against bad players with bad lists but so what their are loads of lists that table non-competitive players by turn 4 this will be one of them.
any one of the above things will do well Against lists with majority of points in bikes.
Against tournament players with tournament lists it will just be one of the competitive options.
Necrons can't close within distance. Deamons will get shreded with their low saves even if they are invuln - t5/6 means nothing against 160 st6 shots. Thunderfires can't kill anywhere near enough jetbikes before they get taken apart. Wolf star, screamerstar and grav star won't be able to cope with that many st6 shots. And aren't going to kill as many in return - especially since they cost much more.
Nothing can actually get into combat with them. They have way more firepower than a sicaran. Drop pods can't pin them down and actually just open their units to gerting slaughtered part of the army at a time. Without guide the 40 jetbikes can down a flyrant a turn with a wound left over.
Yeh you're right - non-competitive players are the only ones that will struggle with 160 st6 shots for 1080pts against them. Anyone who's competetive will obviously be able to roll all the saves they need.
I blame Doomrider, only he could be involved in such unimaginable horror and awesomeness involving bike models and vast amounts cocaine. This hysteria is freaking awesome though.
Did you miss the part where Eldar also get D-weapon spam? AV 13-14 is no more durable than AV 10.
wolf star, plague drones ,screamer star ,grav star
So a handful of ridiculous death star units that people are already sick of seeing?
any thing with a 2+ cover and any ability in close combat will wreck face.
Not really, because anything that depends on close combat is never going to catch a jetbike squad.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Everyone keeps hyping their damage - but no one really mentions their vulnerability. Pick out the long range blast or rapid fire platform of your choice. Or AV 13/14. Or mass-flyers. Or etc.
Most races have a High strength low AP platform that should be able to pop a few bikes per turn which should add up pretty rapidly. Or guys that put out a huge number of shots (Pask, Wyvern, Tesla, Orks, etc.)
Yes, they hurt. Yes, they will be mid-range at best most of the game and can dart around. Whooptie.
I love how people have to jump to 30K units to even try to compete here.
Actually, no, I hate it.
Hell, maybe it's a typo. Maybe there's some sort of restriction on these, maybe it's all a really, really well done hoax. But then, it's GW.
I have to question just how far they have to go before some people will stop defending them. Once they've demanded their first borns? Their whole families? Their souls?
Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice.
liquidjoshi wrote: I love how people have to jump to 30K units to even try to compete here.
Actually, no, I hate it.
Hell, maybe it's a typo. Maybe there's some sort of restriction on these, maybe it's all a really, really well done hoax. But then, it's GW.
I have to question just how far they have to go before some people will stop defending them. Once they've demanded their first borns? Their whole families? Their souls?
Nah. Even if guardians get S: D on their guns people will still trot out the "Git good" or "You guys just need to take X cheesey unit" excuses. As if answering cheese with more cheese is good game design.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
liquidjoshi wrote: I love how people have to jump to 30K units to even try to compete here.
Actually, no, I hate it.
Hell, maybe it's a typo. Maybe there's some sort of restriction on these, maybe it's all a really, really well done hoax. But then, it's GW.
I have to question just how far they have to go before some people will stop defending them. Once they've demanded their first borns? Their whole families? Their souls?
Not going to happen. Even once 8th edition hits and requires a phone app and card reader so that you can swipe your credit card to get added effects in game. People will still defend GWlol.
Can we also remember this is a unit in an army which will have guargantuan wraithknights, serpents, warpspiders, fragons, T8 mcs, psudo rending, jsj walkers, haywire jp unit, psychic powers out their ears, hornets and the lynx.
Poly Ranger wrote: We have to redefine cheese now. No cheese matches this.
Agreed.quel grand fromage!
(i think i spelled that right...)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
I love that this is finally getting people feta up with GW. If a lot of people leave the game briecause of the Eldar creaming their army, then maybe they'll sharply notice how jacked up their game is.
But probably not. GW is just in it for that cheddar.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/15 23:02:59
Poly Ranger wrote:Can we also remember this is a unit in an army which will have guargantuan wraithknights, serpents, warpspiders, fragons, T8 mcs, psudo rending, jsj walkers, haywire jp unit, psychic powers out their ears, hornets and the lynx.
Hold up, hold up. Have gargantuan WKs been confirmed or are they just still "crazy good" rather than "MY EYES!" good?
TheKbob wrote:I love that this is finally getting people feta up with GW. If a lot of people leave the game briecause of the Eldar creaming their army, then maybe they'll sharply notice how jacked up their game is.
But probably not. GW is just in it for that cheddar.
I can't tell if I love or hate those puns. I think really they make me feel kinda Blue...
Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice.
Hold up, hold up. Have gargantuan WKs been confirmed or are they just still "crazy good" rather than "MY EYES!" good?
Yes. Page 22 of White Dwarf: "With the release of Codex: Craftworlds, the Eldar Wraithknight as been reclassified by the Departmento Munitorum as a Gargantuan Creature."
It goes on to say that it killed two Deathwing Knights at range, and then the DWK killed it. They actually specifically say that the (surviving) knights hit it with 9 wounding hits in smite mode. So the real question is: how many points is the NEW Wraithknight?
If it's 240, that would be silly great. If it were 400, it might be in the ballpark; if it were 540, then nobody will take one.
I suspect cost close to IK and/or Bloodthirster, perhaps a little more because of ranged D (even if it is a sucky range).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/15 23:13:44
The vets go in the valks, they aim to drop in cover near objectives and simply survive by going to ground with their camo-cloaks. The infantry sticks behind the defence line, and does exactly the same thing as the vets (survive by going to ground). Ratlings do the same as the vets- claim objectives until they die with their annoying cover saves. The three Russes act as a screen to the Malcador to give it a cover save. The valks shouldn't be worried by the jetbikes, being hit on 6s and glanced on 6s. The list would aim to win by having the infantry elements survive long enough to claim objectives/victory points, with the rest of the list having enough fire power to reduce just what the enemy jetbikes can shoot at the infantry.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/15 23:17:26
As for the AV 13/14 wall... you're going to be surrounded. Unless you have AV 13 on the rear armour, you're not going to last long. Does anyone here play against White Scars? Those guys that laugh, and jink away most of the damage they take? These things are 75% of the cost of a Marine Bike with Plasmagun.
A Jetbike, capable of moving 48" per turn [If they need to jink, they move to the other side of the fuckin' board to get away!], that can fire at 36", with a weapon that threatens 90% of units. That can only be shot back at by 10% of units, at VASTLY inferior ability, that simply CAN'T be caught by CC units.
People think they're so easy to down? Think about what you can hit them back with. Think about how you want to hurt them, probably 24" or less to output even remotely similar damage. "I'ma drop pod duders with fancy ammo whad'll smash dem good!" Sure, one unit maybe. Then the others will pound you to dust. And just move away. If you can't control the whole board, they can be in that spot in a single turn. Oh, do you like Hide'n'Seek?
Remember they can pull the Tau trick of popping in and out of LOS, by moving in the Assault Phase. So you thought you could shoot them with battle cannon? Nope! I float back behind this piece of terrain, and you're SoL. You managed to draw LOS on my unit? I Jink, and move to where you can't touch me anymore. Oh, and I can still late-game objective steal. Suck a toad, chump!
So yeah, right now they're making a power change. Not creep, just straight up you have the models or you don't. It's a different game, with just the Necron and Eldar dexes as starters.
PS: My irritation is up, but that list is ***redacted***, and would be annihilated by anything with an armour value. Yes, you can kill JB, but that's it. I'm not sure how expensive that is, but nobody's going to play pure bikes. And once your units are on the ground, the bikes will just move off. There will be other units required to fulfill whatever silly Decurion Requirements there are. Plus, people will want to take some "D"istort weapons, to deal with vehicles, so you'll need to deal with Wraith Units / Vehicles too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/15 23:25:00
-5000 pts
-2500 pts
The Empire 
: 
3000
4000 
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500