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My favorite eldar unit is the wraithguard. Last edition I was a powergamer because I had wave serpents with wraithguards in them. Now I am a power gamer because I have wraithguard in wave serpents. I love the WK model, it's what finally made me stop playing sisters of battle, and now I can only have 1 of them. I rather them be ok/good but not awsome, so I can have 3 of them and not be called a power gamer because I want to have the most fething awsomest looking army (to me) in the game. Sorry for the swearing.

Now, if anyone is wondering why bikes are so OP, the answer is simple. GW made new models, they added a gun that was not available on the old bikes, then they made them so OP that everyone who wants to have the best list will run out to buy them, and nerf the wave serpent so that people wont be using guardians/DA as troops. Again making people run out to buy new troops. I used to have wraithguard as troops, I now have to go out and buy new troops if I want to play Eldar, and I am going to buy the new bikes because they look pretty sweet. GW wins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, I tried to make a list with two wraithknights and you need 2k points if you want to do it, at least if you want serpents to put your guards in, troops, a 120points farseer on bike and you want guns on your wraithlord.

 Acidian wrote:
My favorite eldar unit is the wraithguard. Last edition I was a powergamer because I had wave serpents with wraithguards in them. Now I am a power gamer because I have wraithguard in wave serpents. I love the WK model, it's what finally made me stop playing sisters of battle, and now I can only have 1 of them. I rather them be ok/good but not awsome, so I can have 3 of them and not be called a power gamer because I want to have the most fething awsomest looking army (to me) in the game. Sorry for the swearing.

Now, if anyone is wondering why bikes are so OP, the answer is simple. GW made new models, they added a gun that was not available on the old bikes, then they made them so OP that everyone who wants to have the best list will run out to buy them, and nerf the wave serpent so that people wont be using guardians/DA as troops. Again making people run out to buy new troops. I used to have wraithguard as troops, I now have to go out and buy new troops if I want to play Eldar, and I am going to buy the new bikes because they look pretty sweet. GW wins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, I tried to make a list with two wraithknights and you need 2k points if you want to do it, at least if you want serpents to put your guards in, troops, a 120points farseer on bike and you want guns on your wraithlord.

Actually if you just want 2 wraithknights you take the either the windrider host or the guardian battle host with 2 wraith construct auxiliary that minimum squad and no upgrades come out to 953 and 1090 points respectively which leaves 400-500 points of upgrades in a 1500 pt game. That is the min/max way to get WK's and lose friends.

Edit: posted in wrong place.

Wraithguard can still get battle focus now that the supplement is dead?

You can do a almost pure Iyanden army with a formation if that's what you are worried bout.

partninja wrote:
Wraithguard can still get battle focus now that the supplement is dead?

Wraith guard can't get battle focus as far as I'm aware at the moment. There is no mention in their entry, and there is also no mention in the spiritseer. It seems they have lost it. But with the improved power to the distort weapons I'm not at all surprised. It's a minor consolation at least for the haters out there.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

partninja wrote:
Wraithguard can still get battle focus now that the supplement is dead?

Wraith guard can't get battle focus as far as I'm aware at the moment. There is no mention in their entry, and there is also no mention in the spiritseer. It seems they have lost it. But with the improved power to the distort weapons I'm not at all surprised. It's a minor consolation at least for the haters out there.

Not quite. From the Codex:

Wraith Host Formation:
Special rules: Battle Focus

OK, I missed that....thats my bad. Wow. So, a wraith host formation within a warlock gains battle focus, and gets a 6" run EVERY time....

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
OK, I missed that....thats my bad. Wow. So, a wraith host formation within a warlock gains battle focus, and gets a 6" run EVERY time....

The whole formation gets it all the time, they don't have to be close to a warlock/spiritseer.

That was supposed to say 'within a war host'. Auto correct strikes again!

Yea thats brutal.

Eeesh that means they can actually get into template range T1 if they really wanted to. Serpent moves 6" + 6" disembark + 6" battle focus + 8" template = 26"

Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

I agree that the new jetbikes are an issue. I just think that there must be another way to beat them for our opponents. Rather than someone using troops to kill jetbikes (also troops), surely there are other units in other areas of the force org that could do a better job?

I agree that it's very tough to get within 12" for marines' rapid fire but I would never say impossible. However, knowing it's tough means you need to either find a way of making sure you get there, no matter how tough (in true marines fashion), or use other units. S6 is useless against AV13+. Anti troop Predators and a Land Raider could do well here. Any JSJ troops would also be beneficial.

A potential tactic that comes to mind is an artillery unit hiding out of LoS, shooting and blowing chunks out of the Eldar or forcing them to jink and forcing them to move to take the threat out. When they do move, that's when the previously mentioned troops get involved and attack, protecting, in this case, the Whirlwind or Typhoon Land Speeders.

As I said, I'm an Eldar player but just wanna see possible alternatives out there for our opponents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Here's a question.

The warp spiders have a rule called 'flickerjunp' it says when they are selected as a target from a shooting attack they may make a 2D6 Jump....

.... It doesn't say it's restricted to once.... What happens if they're targeted three or four times. Can they make 3 or 4 jumps?

I think it's just the once and they can't jump in their following turn.

Yeah, I'd imagine that is the RAI. But it's not the RAW. The raw States when the unit is selected as a target, with no limit on how many times. It doesn't say the first time the unit is selected, or once per shooting phase when the unit is selected, just when the unit is selected. I'd argue that RAW you can make a jump every time you're selected. It's clear you don't get to use your warp jump next turn.

 koooaei wrote:
You forgot battlefocus.

Battlefocus doesn't affect biker units. Turbo-boosting is not a run. If you can't make a run, you can't also run then shoot.

They only have the rule because "it's fluffy" or something.

This could change with the new book; I'm just going off the 6E Eldar book for this statement.

@Hollismason: We do know that, though. The leak came from this week's upcoming White Dwarf, which go to print before they are available to the public.

edit: Holy crap, I responded to something from page 1 without realize there's 12 pages. Sorry if this has already been brought up if that's the case.

I find it confusing that some people refer to units that can run 6" (a formation bonus), and then shoot. How come? Don't you either Run or Shoot?

 SarisKhan wrote:
I find it confusing that some people refer to units that can run 6" (a formation bonus), and then shoot. How come? Don't you either Run or Shoot?

Eldar run and shoot better than you.

 SarisKhan wrote:
I find it confusing that some people refer to units that can run 6" (a formation bonus), and then shoot. How come? Don't you either Run or Shoot?

Starting with the previous book, Most Eldar units got a special rule called "battle focus". This allowed you to shoot, then still run, or make a run move, and still shoot. Almost like being a jet pack unit. You have to make the whole run-shoot or shoot-run fully per unit one at a time. So you can't run everyone, then decide who to shoot based on another unit's shooting success/fail.

Best explanation for Battle Focus I've seen is this: Although irrelevant to bikes (bikes can't run), a character with the Battle Focus special rule (not on a bike) is only allowed to use that rule if every model in the unit has Battle Focus. Taking Battle Focus away from bikes would mean that (for example) an attached Eldrad would lose Battle Focus. Yes?

That explains why Bikes have it, but Reapers don't. Even if they had it, the whole unit can't run. Still bothers me that Reapers don't have it for fluff purposes, though.

I have never understood why bikes have it. Fluff or no fluff it's confusing to give a unit a rule it can never ever make use of. And if they can't ever make use of it, why bother giving it to them.

Eh, so that's the way Battle Focus works.

Hollismason wrote:

Formation Crimson Hunter formation cause it's broken.

Why???

 whembly wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Formation Crimson Hunter formation cause it's broken.

Why???

It's pretty brutal man. You get three fliers for 440 that each put out 4 s8 ap 2 shots, reroll armor pen on other fliers and have an automatic 4+ cover save without jinking, which becomes rerollable if you do jink. All on a vector dancer. I don't mind it because it hard counters flyrants, which I am so tired of seeing spammed.

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I agree that the new jetbikes are an issue. I just think that there must be another way to beat them for our opponents. Rather than someone using troops to kill jetbikes (also troops), surely there are other units in other areas of the force org that could do a better job?

I agree that it's very tough to get within 12" for marines' rapid fire but I would never say impossible. However, knowing it's tough means you need to either find a way of making sure you get there, no matter how tough (in true marines fashion), or use other units. S6 is useless against AV13+. Anti troop Predators and a Land Raider could do well here. Any JSJ troops would also be beneficial.

A potential tactic that comes to mind is an artillery unit hiding out of LoS, shooting and blowing chunks out of the Eldar or forcing them to jink and forcing them to move to take the threat out. When they do move, that's when the previously mentioned troops get involved and attack, protecting, in this case, the Whirlwind or Typhoon Land Speeders.

As I said, I'm an Eldar player but just wanna see possible alternatives out there for our opponents.

I don't agree that everyone's troops should be so horribly outmatched by the new jetbikes, but even if there was a silver bullet somewhere in the form of e.g. av13+, the opportunity cost for eldar to splash some hard anti-tank, anti-MC counters is very, very low, with all of the str D weapons available in their new codex.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Formation Crimson Hunter formation cause it's broken.

Why???

It's pretty brutal man. You get three fliers for 440 that each put out 4 s8 ap 2 shots, reroll armor pen on other fliers and have an automatic 4+ cover save without jinking, which becomes rerollable if you do jink. All on a vector dancer. I don't mind it because it hard counters flyrants, which I am so tired of seeing spammed.

And this I wouldn't mind, if we had another viable option aside from a core of 3 flyrants.

 koooaei wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I find it confusing that some people refer to units that can run 6" (a formation bonus), and then shoot. How come? Don't you either Run or Shoot?

Eldar run and shoot better than you.

I think this is the answer to every question in this thread.

 gigasnail wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Formation Crimson Hunter formation cause it's broken.

Why???

It's pretty brutal man. You get three fliers for 440 that each put out 4 s8 ap 2 shots, reroll armor pen on other fliers and have an automatic 4+ cover save without jinking, which becomes rerollable if you do jink. All on a vector dancer. I don't mind it because it hard counters flyrants, which I am so tired of seeing spammed.

And this I wouldn't mind, if we had another viable option aside from a core of 3 flyrants.

Tyranids have many viable builds besides spamming flyrants. Honestly the only reason it is so popular is because its the laziest of the viable builds. It's usually ~15 models. I have no sympathy for that garbage 3 flyrant + 3 mucclid detachment thats been popular for the last few months. A dakka flyrant is the same as 4 scatbikes + a warlock that have undeniable invisibility on them all the time.

Hopefully the ITC format will tone down the Wraithknight a bit. I can see a few reasons.

The ban on Ranged D.

With the Secondary Mission Maelstrom being equal in points to the Primary Mission, the extra Maelstrom point for every 3 Hull Points/Wounds dealt to the Super Heavy/Gargantuan Creature LoW is a silver lining.