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 Grey Templar wrote:


Doh!

Spoilers

No worries! There's no sign of the DVD coming out over here any time soon; at this point I think I'm likely to end up seeing The Force Awakens before I get Rebels or the final Clone Wars series!

Any guesses on whether they will jettison or double-down on the whole midichlorian thing? Above all else, that's what ruined Episode I for me.

All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.

 Grey Templar wrote:
All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.

Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.

 jasper76 wrote:
Any guesses on whether they will jettison or double-down on the whole midichlorian thing? Above all else, that's what ruined Episode I for me.

I doubt it will be mentioned.

I would like to think that Abrams knows how stupid of an idea midi-chlorians was because I'm pretty sure everyone in the world except for Lucas would agree.

My guess is they just make no mention of anything at all.

They wont say they don't exist, but nor will they talk about them.

Still can't get excited about this film but, when Han and Chewie were there at the end I did smile involuntarily, so nostalgia has some effect.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.

Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.

According to the book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film released in 2007, Lucas came up with the idea of midi-chlorians as early as 1977 when he was laying out the guidelines for the EU. He waited until The Phantom Menace to put that stupid, stupid, stupid idea on film.

George is basically an idea guy. He makes tons of stupid ideas and a few good ones, but you never let him have the final word on what ideas to use.

The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.

 jasper76 wrote:
Visuals look great so far. I hope they don't ruin it with too much CGI, a stupid script, or, God forbid, good acting.

well the droids at least are real, and not cgi:

http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/16/adorable-new-star-wars-droid-proves-its-not-cgi/?utm_source=Feed_Classic_Full&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Engadget&?ncid=rss_full

 Grey Templar wrote:
The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.

Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:

Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.

The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.

Luke probably doesn;t know anything about Midi-chloririans anyway. Yoda and Ben never told him and the rest of the Jedi who knew about them were all killed. The New Jedi Order would probably not know about them.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.

Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:

Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.

The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.

Aww, Love Ewoks. Ther're tiny wookies.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.

Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:

Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.

The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.

Aww, Love Ewoks. Ther're tiny wookies.

C'mon... they were awesome when we were kids*...

They're still awesome now.

 whembly wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
The OT was good despite his presence because he wasn't calling the shots.

Even then, there are some incredibly stupid things that happen in the Original Trilogy. Here are a few:

Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.

The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.

Aww, Love Ewoks. Ther're tiny wookies.

C'mon... they were awesome when we were kids*...

They're still awesome now.

Awesome to my kids for sure. I wasn't particularly fond of them when I was kid but I didn't outwardly dislike them back then. I really don't dislike them now either and they are pretty cute for murderous alien teddy bears... but they're still pretty dumb and the fact that they defeat armored stormtroopers with rocks and arrows is ridiculous.

Also, anyone remember The Ewok Adventure? I rest my case.

I don't see why they can't. Rocks won't do much unless used as a melee weapon, but a sharp stick stabbed in the soft flexible part will do some damage. And it it seemed to be very gorilla warfarey.

 Manchu wrote:

squidhills wrote:
I can only hope you had as much fun typing that up as I had reading it. Thank you for that.

Dang dude don't even acknowledge my wall of text, very dark side of you.

My apologies, good sir. This thread has been flying fast and furious and I overlooked your post. I have gone back and read it, and I extend the same thanks and appreciation to you as I did to Grey Templar. You have both made my day.


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 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

I can't refute the other points, but I can refute these:

Ground assault... General Veers: "Com-scan has detected an energy shield protecting a region of the sixth planet in the system. The shield is strong enough to repel any bombardment." Follower by Vader making disparaging remarks about Admiral Ozzel and "field promoting" Captain Piett.

Vader didn't kill Han, Chewie, et al because he needed their suffering to draw Luke to him. If Luke felt their deaths, he might not rush to avenge them. They are already dead; what's the hurry? But if Luke feels them being tortured, he will think he can save them if he acts right now before his training is finished, and gets captured.

Yoda being the worst teacher in the Galaxy? Well, the fact of the matter is... um... Ok, I'll have to give you that one. Only because Mister Miyagi isn't in the Star Wars Galaxy. Seriously. Guy can't just *teach* martial arts? He's gotta get his house re-painted using child labor first?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Star Wars: Princess Leia: "They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape." "They're tracking us." So what do they do? Fly directly to the hidden Rebel base and the Empire follows them there.

I figured she wanted to draw the Empire to Yavin at that point to prevent another massacre of civilians and because she had the plans, concluding that they would know soon enough whether or not there was a way to take out the Death Star.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
The Empire Strikes Back: The Empire commits to a ground assault on Hoth instead of an orbital bombardment from some of the most powerful warships in the Galaxy. Vader has no problem straight up murdering subordinates who make the slightest mistake, but doesn't just straight up kill Han, Chewie, and Leia. Also, Yoda is the worst teacher in the Galaxy.

Vader clearly wants to pin the Rebels down so he can personally assault the base -- likely to take prisoners and arguably to find Luke. (Unless you believe he didn't recognize his own last name.) Vader kills subordinates because hatred has crippled his ability to lead, which was based on compassion. He doesn't kill his prisoners because he will torture them until it attracts Luke. Yoda is not a good teacher but I'd argue Obi-Wan is pretty clearly the worst. Or maybe Mace Windu.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Return of the Jedi: Luke's "plan" for rescuing Han from Jabba is stupid, like insanely stupid. Also, Ewoks.

squidhills wrote:
I can't refute the other points, but I can refute these:

Ground assault... General Veers: "Com-scan has detected an energy shield protecting a region of the sixth planet in the system. The shield is strong enough to repel any bombardment." Follower by Vader making disparaging remarks about Admiral Ozzel and "field promoting" Captain Piett.

That shows the inconsistency of deflector shields in Star Wars. The Empire was able to walk right up (literally, because they brought no air support... another stupid move) to it and blast it. The blaster cannons on the AT-ATs were able to pierce the shield, but the combined firepower of the Death Squadron Star Destroyers would have had no effect? From Return we know that you can't just waltz through a deflector shield too (the shuttle needed it deactivated in the beginning of the movie and the fighters had to avoid it during the Battle of Endor).

Vader didn't kill Han, Chewie, et al because he needed their suffering to draw Luke to him. If Luke felt their deaths, he might not rush to avenge them. They are already dead; what's the hurry? But if Luke feels them being tortured, he will think he can save them if he acts right now before his training is finished, and gets captured.

I think it's important to realize that Vader had no idea that Luke was on Dagobah receiving Jedi training from Yoda. For all he knew, Luke was on the Falcon with the rest of the gang. When he finds out that he wasn't, he decided to set a trap to catch Luke even though he didn't know that Luke would come to Bespin. It's actually one of the biggest plot holes in the movie.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
All the movies are still canon, so the M-word still exists. But I doubt they'll make any mention of it.

Well, midichlorians didn't exist until Lucas dreamt them up for Episode I. I'd be happy enough if they just didn't bring it up, but even happier if they rolled back to the Force 1.0.

I also hope for that word to be forgotten....

The way I personally view the 2 trilogies is similar to 40k... You started out with knowledge of the "present" (new hope, Empire, and return) but there is an acknowledgement that much knowledge has been lost through the years... then you get the Horus Heresy books (Episode 1-3) that try to flesh out the way things were and most of us who are most familiar with "present" states are reacting in less than favorable ways.

Am I losing my mind or did i just see Revan in there?

Edit: Nope, Kylo Ren.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

The way I personally view the 2 trilogies is similar to 40k... You started out with knowledge of the "present" (new hope, Empire, and return) but there is an acknowledgement that much knowledge has been lost through the years... then you get the Horus Heresy books (Episode 1-3) that try to flesh out the way things were and most of us who are most familiar with "present" states are reacting in less than favorable ways.

The key difference being that Horus's Anakin->Vader Fall was far better written than Anakin's own

Although for the most part, Clone Wars does more for Anakin's character than the films ever did!

 Manchu wrote:
I figured she wanted to draw the Empire to Yavin at that point to prevent another massacre of civilians and because she had the plans, concluding that they would know soon enough whether or not there was a way to take out the Death Star.

Meh, I don't buy it. It was a terrible move on their part because the only reason why they were even able to defeat the Death Star was because Luke cheated and used magic. If Luke had forgotten to wear his plot armor for the battle, they would have failed the trench run and the Empire would have destroyed their base and crushed the Rebellion. A much better plan would have been to engage the Empire away from their (hidden) base, so if the initial attack failed, the rest of the Rebellion would survive.

Vader clearly wants to pin the Rebels down so he can personally assault the base -- likely to take prisoners and arguably to find Luke. (Unless you believe he didn't recognize his own last name.) Vader kills subordinates because hatred has crippled his ability to lead, which was based on compassion. He doesn't kill his prisoners because he will torture them until it attracts Luke. Yoda is not a good teacher but I'd argue Obi-Wan is pretty clearly the worst. Or maybe Mace Windu.

See what I wrote above about Vader knowing nothing of Luke's Jedi "training." Did he know that Luke was his son? Maybe, depending on what year it is (because we all know that Lucas made that gak up between the first two movies). Even if he knew Luke was his son, the only thing he knows is that Luke is "strong with the Force," and he knows from his own training that those skills need to be developed.

It's hard to judge Luke's plan because we don't know what he knew. (Did he know Jabba would want to execute them via Saarlac if he killed the Rancor? If so, that was pretty brilliant.) In other words, Luke's plan might have been okay -- but RotJ doesn't show us enough for us to judge ... because RotJ is busy being a space opera. And those scenes are very good space opera scenes. I got nothing on the Ewoks, however.

It's still an overly complicated plan... almost as bad a the Joker's plan in The Dark Knight.


Keep in mind, I'm not really trying to pick the Original Trilogy apart... I think they are perfect they way they are, stupidi plot holes and all!

SPJr, you can't treat SW like history. There is no possible version of SW in which Luke does not blow up the Death Star. The setting of SW only exists so that Luke can blow up the Death Star.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The 3 or so minutes of these two trailers have already given me far more pleasure that the whole of the prequel trilogy

I felt the same way!

Put the hairs up on the back of my neck, awesome stuff.

Oh and I don't think the entire Rebellion was at Yavin; there's no sign of Mon Mothma and no reason why she would not have been at the briefing as she was on Home One in RotJ. The explanation, of course, is that the character did not exist at that point. But if we're treating SW as an alternate reality rather than a setting in which space operas happen then the point stands.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Everything else looks great and exciting. But then, so did the Phantom Menace trailers...

And the Phantom Menace was great and exciting that first time at the cinema. It was only afterwards that the great gaping holes in it became more obvious.


It is kind of cool though that this new one already looks more 'Star Wars' than the prequels. Part of that is all the familiar stuff (stormtroopers, tie fighters, etc) but the prequel trailers also tended to focus far more on the drama, forgetting that Star Wars is supposed to be fun.

 Grey Templar wrote:
We seen Han and Chewie in the Cantina. Chewie has his Bowcaster out and aimed at something.

Han smiles and says "We're Home!"

That's the cockpit of the Falcon, not the cantina. The ribbed bit behind them is the end of the 'tunnel' from the main saucer.







As for the trailer, I think the only words I have for it are: 'SQUUUEEEEEEEEEEEE!'

 Manchu wrote:
Oh and I don't think the entire Rebellion was at Yavin; there's no sign of Mon Mothma and no reason why she would not have been at the briefing as she was on Home One in RotJ. The explanation, of course, is that the character did not exist at that point. But if we're treating SW as an alternate reality rather than a setting in which space operas happen then the point stands.

Same with Ackbar... in ANH, there are no real "aliens" to speak of within the fighting ranks of the rebellion (then again, we really don't get a good look at the "Rebels" aside from a remote base)


Off topic, but do you think Admiral Ackbar gets "squeemish" if people are eating sushi around him?

I may have to dig out my VHS player, I'm getting the urge to watch 4-6 again.

 insaniak wrote:
forgetting that Star Wars is supposed to be fun.

Yeah -- or more like, forgot what fun means. "Now this is podracing!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Same with Ackbar... in ANH, there are no real "aliens" to speak of within the fighting ranks of the rebellion (then again, we really don't get a good look at the "Rebels" aside from a remote base)

According to EU sources, Ackbar had not joined up with the Rebellion yet because he was busy being Tarkin's personal slave imprisoned back on Dac (a.k.a., Mon Calmari).

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Off topic, but do you think Admiral Ackbar gets "squeemish" if people are eating sushi around him?

Sushi is fish though. Just don't bring up Red Lobster.