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Like I said in the other thread
Jetseer
32 Bikes - 2 10's and 4 3's with SL
Wraithknight
400-500 points of Vauls and/or Wraithguard in Transports

Win!

You know the situation is dire when even Pretre is sipping the kool-aid.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Armor and/or massed fire. They're only T4 with a 3+ save. If you have trouble killing that, then your army's got bigger issues. They're a hell of an alpha strike unit though.

How are you getting "massed fire" on units that are 40+'' away, have a 48'' threat range and can move 2D6'' after shooting?

Also, since Fire Prisms can be taken in squadrons now, and their attacks gain +1 str/-1 AP for each Prism in the squadron, doesn't that mean taking two gives you a 60'' ranged strength 7 AP2 large blast (or a 60'' strength 10 AP1 lance)?

Does no one take Drop Pods and/or any kind of other Deep Striking unit nowadays?!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
You know the situation is dire when even Pretre is sipping the kool-aid.

I'm not even sure what this is referring to, but sure!

The drop-pod argument has been addressed at least... rough estimates put it at 800 times over the course of the 50 threads discussing this topic.

A list at 1850 I would run vs eldar-

Baal strike force
Option 1- (my preferred)
HQ- 200
Sang priest w/ combi-grav + bike-90
Ml2 lib w/ combi grav, gallans staff 110
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Fast attack-561
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
7 bikes w/ 2 grav guns, combi grave-187
Elites-330
Fragnaught in pod w/ heavy flamer- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ heavy flamer- 165
Heavy support-390
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130
Dev squad w/ missile launchers- 130

20pts left over.

List 2-
HQs-
ML2 lib w/ Gallans staff (goes with command squad) on bike-120
ML1 lib-65 (goes with random tac unit)
Troops-390
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130
Tac squad w/ plasma gun, combi plasma in pod- 130

FA-345
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod
ASM w/ 2 melta guns, combi-melta- 115 in pod

Elites-495
Command squad w/ jump packs-125
Fragnaught in pod w/ heavy flamer- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ heavy flamer- 165
Fragnaught in pod w/ heavy flamer- 165

Heavy support-315
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105
Predator w/ overcharged engines and heavy bolter sponsons- 105

Any idea what non-FW Space Wolves can do against Jetbike spam then? For FW games I am covered with Sicarans, Scorpius and Acheron. Its the non-FW games that bother me.

Immersturm wrote:
Any idea what non-FW Space Wolves can do against Jetbike spam then? For FW games I am covered with Sicarans, Scorpius and Acheron. Its the non-FW games that bother me.

Um. Massed ap3 or better shooting? Coupled with a TWC unit or two?

TWC would probably get mowed down by s6. :( I've run into that with fly rants.

It sounds like a great job for those silly FW necron mini pylon things.

I'm a little out of the loop these days, but what can pure Guard do to even stand half a chance against a tooled list?

No allies, just Guard.

Wyverns, some mechvets, a big ole blob of weapons, and a tank commander with partner?

Immersturm wrote:
Any idea what non-FW Space Wolves can do against Jetbike spam then? For FW games I am covered with Sicarans, Scorpius and Acheron. Its the non-FW games that bother me.

Drop pod spam. Jetbikes don't like sixty Grey Hunters popping up in their face turn one or two.

Guard can do msu better than anyone.

 pretre wrote:
Guard can do msu better than anyone.

With mechvets, or just taking a platoon but not blobbing?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Immersturm wrote:
Any idea what non-FW Space Wolves can do against Jetbike spam then? For FW games I am covered with Sicarans, Scorpius and Acheron. Its the non-FW games that bother me.

Drop pod spam. Jetbikes don't like sixty Grey Hunters popping up in their face turn one or two.

Neither did lists in 5th, but we coped. (Sorta) Are you saying that Eldar are somehow incapable of coping when BA can?

 Blacksails wrote:
I'm a little out of the loop these days, but what can pure Guard do to even stand half a chance against a tooled list?

No allies, just Guard.

Wyverns, some mechvets, a big ole blob of weapons, and a tank commander with partner?

MSU the FETH out of them

Have your front armor 14 lemons shoot the feth out of them with battle cannon equivalents to force jinx
CCS Moo ignore cover them to death.

Hope to god they dont get invisiblity

 Desubot wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
I'm a little out of the loop these days, but what can pure Guard do to even stand half a chance against a tooled list?

No allies, just Guard.

Wyverns, some mechvets, a big ole blob of weapons, and a tank commander with partner?

MSU the FETH out of them

Have your front armor 14 lemons shoot the feth out of them with battle cannon equivalents to force jinx
CCS Moo ignore cover them to death.

Hope to god they dont get invisiblity

and then their many D-weapons blow your av-14 vehicles up in one turn.

On the up side. DSycthes are at -1 on the D weapon roll. Right? Good right?

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
I'm a little out of the loop these days, but what can pure Guard do to even stand half a chance against a tooled list?

No allies, just Guard.

Wyverns, some mechvets, a big ole blob of weapons, and a tank commander with partner?

MSU the FETH out of them

Have your front armor 14 lemons shoot the feth out of them with battle cannon equivalents to force jinx
CCS Moo ignore cover them to death.

Hope to god they dont get invisiblity

and then their many D-weapons blow your av-14 vehicles up in one turn.

Which guns are the ranged d weapons again? can they get close with a decent amount of bubble wrap? annnd ignore cover?

Wraith knights, vauls, wraith guard, ilic, etc. all D. Ilic is unconfirmed.

Everythign that is "D". Basically, though, the only thing you'll have to worry about in terms of range is heavy wraithcannon, and Vaul's with D-Cannon -- but frankly these were a big threat to your AV14 before anyhow.

You have to worry less in tournaments because no ranged D. And they can only take 1 WK in a tournament because it's a LoW. For casual games, who cares -- the players will figure something reasonable out.

Presuming you're in a game with ranged D, a WK gets only 2 shots a turn. They have to hit (unbuffed BS is 4, so there is a 33% they'll just miss) .

Then have to not roll 1 on wound; 16% chance there. Then, 2-5 rolls still get cover and invulnerable saves, and D3 is unlikely to kill you. On a 6, it will probably kill your AV14 vehicle.

For those that want the math, that's 2 shots at 36", each with 11% chance of outright killing your AV14, and each a 44% chance of hitting you, though you'll get your cover and invulnerable saves. They'll be with in 36", so send something to kill it the next turn.

OP



Notice the other guy has an elder army before you offer to give him a game or say you're busy if he asks.