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2015/04/17 18:43:39
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Hey guys, pretty much what the title says.
I'm thinking of picking up a box to add to my force but I'm not sure how to equip them.
Jump packs or drop pod?
What equipment loadout?
Any extra men?
Right now I'm thinking of this loadout because I love power mauls, but it seems expensive for basically 5 marines.
I'm using Iron Hands tactics so they get the 6++ FNP and the list I'm using will have some dreads drop podding in to distract first turn, and some vindicators and land speeders put on the pressure turn 2.
Lets try to not make more chaos gods, ok guys? I'd call this thread a trainwreck, but trainwrecks are legitimately horrifying to watch. This is hilarious.
2015/04/18 12:07:17
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Unfortunately they aren't the best unit in the world... If you can, use a command squad/honor guard in a stormraven or a pod.
If you really want them, treat them like slightly better ASMs.
Give them JPs, a couple of power weapons and one or two storm shields every 5 men. You have to keep them as low cost as possible, because they aren't super durable.
Maybe put them in a stormraven, or attach a tanking character like an AA/SS Chapter master
the_Armyman wrote: ...grav is almost always a better choice. Grav is gravy. Grav all day errday. Grav über alles. 360 mlg noscope 420 grav it.
Sargent with Paired Lighting Claws, 2 Plasma Pistols and Jump Packs.
Either 6 out of Storm Raven with a Ready for take off on a Landing Pad or in a squad of 10.
I like them with jump packs. If you are fielding them on foot, you might want to consider honor guard, or a command squad.
I don’t think they all need power weapons. You start to enter the realm of overkill there. I’d also mix it up a bit with the type. Adding a SS or two will help tank wounds. Tossing a few melta bombs in the squad is also probably worth it.
Ten man squads with packs, a few storm shields, a guy with twin lightning claws just so I remember they are Raven Guard and several models with melta bombs. Attach to Korvydae and JP/Chapter Master, lots of fun. Just use every bit of cover until you can actually get that charge off. Top Tier competitive? Never. Still fun and good in a casual/semi competitive setting.
A ton of armies and a terrain habit...
2015/04/19 12:44:57
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
I have been having good luck with mostly naked [Bolt Pistol/Chain Fist] Power Armor Wolf Guard [the WGPL has a Power Fist/Wolf Claw] out a Stormwolf on a Landing Pad with "Ready for Take Off".
They are similar enough I think it should work for Vanguard Vets.
As a cheapie alternative to (bah) Honour Guard, they work excellently.
-JETPACKS JETPACKS JETPACKS!
-Base number usually.
-They're meant to be practical Honour Guard, go light on the Power Weapons here. I suggest some Grav Pistols, and Melta bombs.
The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.
Martel732 wrote: I like to run them as cabinet decorations. Because they are bad.
It really depend on how you use them. I use them as a Assassination Force. Mostly taking on specialized units like Scouts, Veteran Squads and Lootas. The only problem I have is killing them of to quick, but then I am using the Naked 10 Model Squads out of a Assault Transport.
I have even had great luck taking down Vehicles.
No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 15:36:10
2015/04/12 06:41:52
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Your opponents sound VERY cooperative. But we've been over this before. For anyone on the fence, trust me, Vanguards are bad.
2015/04/19 16:24:58
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Your opponents sound VERY cooperative. But we've been over this before. For anyone on the fence, trust me, Vanguards are bad.
You are also in a Anti-Marine-Ultra-Competitive environment. That can make all of the difference.
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Your opponents sound VERY cooperative. But we've been over this before. For anyone on the fence, trust me, Vanguards are bad.
You are also in a Anti-Marine-Ultra-Competitive environment. That can make all of the difference.
How is a competitive environment anti-marine? Units are good or they are not. As was pointed out, DC do it better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 16:33:55
2015/04/19 16:37:36
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Your opponents sound VERY cooperative. But we've been over this before. For anyone on the fence, trust me, Vanguards are bad.
You are also in a Anti-Marine-Ultra-Competitive environment. That can make all of the difference.
Yes, DC do it better, but this thread is about how to use Vanguard Veterans not how good/bad they are.
How is a competitive environment anti-marine? Units are good or they are not. As was pointed out, DC do it better.
More specifically, good units and weapons in this game are good against most targets, just not marines. Marines suffer from the lack of return fire. Not that people are bringing special, magical anti-marine tech.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 16:39:16
2015/04/19 16:39:27
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
Your opponents sound VERY cooperative. But we've been over this before. For anyone on the fence, trust me, Vanguards are bad.
You are also in a Anti-Marine-Ultra-Competitive environment. That can make all of the difference.
How is a competitive environment anti-marine? Units are good or they are not. As was pointed out, DC do it better.
Yes, DC do it better, but this thread is about how to use Vanguard Veterans not how good/bad they are.
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
This.
Never ever fight competent CC units with them, go after squishy troops or things like Pathfinders or Oblits.
Hell, in my last game my 6 man Vanguard squad slaughtered their way through 15 plague marines and I only lost one due to overwatch. They only cost 177 pts for my set up, meaning in most games it's hard not to make to make their points back.
2015/04/19 16:41:12
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
This.
Never ever fight competent CC units with them, go after squishy troops or things like Pathfinders or Oblits.
Hell, in my last game my 6 man Vanguard squad slaughtered their way through 15 plague marines and I only lost one due to overwatch. They only cost 177 pts for my set up, meaning in most games it's hard not to make to make their points back.
That requires opponent cooperation. Remember that they choose what gets assaulted, not you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 16:42:01
2015/04/19 16:46:57
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: No, it doesn't depend on anything. There is no magical way to make Vanguards good. They are bad. I can assassinate things fine in the shooting phase. I don't need overpriced meqs that lose to real CC units.
You paid for an assault transport. You made you army worse right there likely.
What are you doing fighting dedicated Close Combat Units with them?
When I field mine they usually gain me 2-3 VP a game by themselves.
I normally only spend about 200 points for mine to kill off 200-500+ points of models
This.
Never ever fight competent CC units with them, go after squishy troops or things like Pathfinders or Oblits.
Hell, in my last game my 6 man Vanguard squad slaughtered their way through 15 plague marines and I only lost one due to overwatch. They only cost 177 pts for my set up, meaning in most games it's hard not to make to make their points back.
That requires opponent cooperation. Remember that they choose what gets assaulted, not you.
You talk like I give my opponents a choice, I don't. That is what the whole Stormraven/Landing pad with RFTO is all about.
If I go first I can have them in Assualt Range by turn 2 with a 4+ Cover Save.
If I go second the same thing, but I start with a 4++ Save.
Then there is the rest of my Army for them to contend with.
Even with a Stormraven, the best you can do is a 6" move then 6" disembark, and a 2D6 charge. I have a turn to get to decide what the Stormraven contents must assault. I do it to Land Raiders all the time and have it done to my DC all the time.
2015/04/19 16:51:11
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: Even with a Stormraven, the best you can do is a 6" move then 6" disembark, and a 2D6 charge. I have a turn to get to decide what the Stormraven contents must assault. I do it to Land Raiders all the time and have it done to my DC all the time.
Martel732 wrote: Even with a Stormraven, the best you can do is a 6" move then 6" disembark, and a 2D6 charge. I have a turn to get to decide what the Stormraven contents must assault. I do it to Land Raiders all the time and have it done to my DC all the time.
Pretty sure it can move 12" then disembark.
Units can't assault if you move cruising speed. Actually, I don't think you can disembark at cruising speed, either, because that would actually be something good for BA razorbacks, and we can't have that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/19 16:58:23
2015/04/19 16:58:45
Subject: How do you guys like to run vanguard vets?
Martel732 wrote: Even with a Stormraven, the best you can do is a 6" move then 6" disembark, and a 2D6 charge. I have a turn to get to decide what the Stormraven contents must assault. I do it to Land Raiders all the time and have it done to my DC all the time.
Actually it is 6" Move + 6" Move + 6" Disembark +2d6 Assault.
Land Raiders also woirk
Martel732 wrote: Even with a Stormraven, the best you can do is a 6" move then 6" disembark, and a 2D6 charge. I have a turn to get to decide what the Stormraven contents must assault. I do it to Land Raiders all the time and have it done to my DC all the time.
Actually it is 6" Move + 6" Move + 6" Disembark +2d6 Assault.
Land Raiders also woirk
Lets try to not make more chaos gods, ok guys? 
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
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