Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play. Operation Pitchfork.

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**Zewrath**

TheKbob wrote:

Baharroth... oh, look, the Anti-Tau guy. Initiative tests for a 7" bubble basically. Gross.

What you meant to say was "oh, look, the anti-Necron guy". Any worthwhile Tau unit has Blacksun filters and laughs at night fighting/blind.

**Rippy**

cvtuttle wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
The only way to get a message through to the big GW that this is completely unacceptable way to make a codex is to throw up a gak storm. The biggest way to do that? Well show them we won't even play with them. I know I intend to. Many of my players in my local FLGS intend to. Though I need to convince them to ban them from tournaments all together. The more the Eldar players complain and bitch about us complaining and bitching about their so obviously broken and favoritism codex the faster we can wrap this up. It's going to get messy before the end though. These half measures and trying to be "reasonable" with GW and even a certain subset of Eldar players is clearly not working. So it's time to kick things up a notch.

Can I at least get people who will agree to no games with them?

If there are any Eldar players out there with any remorse or guilt for the entire health of the game and 40k scene I implore you to do one of two things. Cheese the ever loving gak out of your codex and get yourself loathed and banned. Or don't play at all. Thanks.

As always the bigger we make this the quicker we'll get an answer.

Thanks. Remember cause mayhem. This Eldar Codex can't be allowed to stand.

I Gamgee swear to throw up a gak storm and use any method possible to get GW attention.

Edit
Since I started this thread and including myself there are four people who will no longer play against Eldar players. All it takes is a little team work. I'll continue to update this.
If I missed your name send me a PM or let me know in the thread and I'll add it.

Operation Members:
Gamgee
Orock
Torga_DW
Rippy

This is the silliest thing I have ever read. Seriously - just go play another game that you will enjoy.

I do enjoy the game. Alot. Doesn't mean that I have to like every part of it. This forum is for discussion, not just loving or hating every single part of a game. So you go away as you have nothing to discuss

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That being said I will play against Eldar, just not cheese spam lists.

**Luke_Prowler**

So, to the people saying to ban eldar or to not play eldar players: all your really doing is alienating the eldar players and further balkanizing the community. I understand you care about having fun, but turning other players into pariahs solves nothing.

If you actually want a long term solution rather than just putting a band-aid on it, that requires some self-sacrificing and not buying from GW. Because sales is the only thing they care about.

**Rippy**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
So, to the people saying to ban eldar or to not play eldar players: all your really doing is alienating the eldar players and further balkanizing the community. I understand you care about having fun, but turning other players into pariahs solves nothing.

If you actually want a long term solution rather than just putting a band-aid on it, that requires some self-sacrificing and not buying from GW. Because sales is the only thing they care about.

Or just respect your opponent and dont spam cheap bikes and D weapons.

Also can we change the operation name to Operation: Scatfork?

**Chad Warden**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
So, to the people saying to ban eldar or to not play eldar players: all your really doing is alienating the eldar players and further balkanizing the community. I understand you care about having fun, but turning other players into pariahs solves nothing.

If you actually want a long term solution rather than just putting a band-aid on it, that requires some self-sacrificing and not buying from GW. Because sales is the only thing they care about.

I agree that sales are what they care about, but how to inform them you aren't buying because of Eldar balance issues, and not anything else (e.g high prices)?

Also, GW sales have been decreasing for years and years anyway and look what we have.

**Tinchebrai**

So I've played since third edition a.k.a 6th grade (I wasn't around for the second ed. craziness) and this is the first time I've been dumbfounded by GW. Sure, there has been some questionable decisions in the past. That said, can we expect this 'breaking the norm' from future codices? It appears to me that there is a base line of what is 'normal' and 'expected' in this game. This is what allows us all to sense the balance of any one edition or codex. If we agree that this particular release is an unusually sharp deviation, and if we can expect more in the future, will we lose the ability to tell if the game is balanced any longer? What then?

**Luke_Prowler**

Chad Warden wrote:
I agree that sales are what they care about, but how to inform them you aren't buying because of Eldar balance issues, and not anything else (e.g high prices)?

Also, GW sales have been decreasing for years and years anyway and look what we have.

Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer. It's debatable at how useful emails or similar are, since they seems entrapped in their idea that they don't need to do market research, but it can't hurt.

Another solution is the community as a whole just creating and agreeing with our own eldar codex, but that seems even less likely.

**Wayniac**

Tinchebrai wrote:
So I've played since third edition a.k.a 6th grade (I wasn't around for the second ed. craziness) and this is the first time I've been dumbfounded by GW. Sure, there has been some questionable decisions in the past. That said, can we expect this 'breaking the norm' from future codices? It appears to me that there is a base line of what is 'normal' and 'expected' in this game. This is what allows us all to sense the balance of any one edition or codex. If we agree that this particular release is an unusually sharp deviation, and if we can expect more in the future, will we lose the ability to tell if the game is balanced any longer? What then?

Part of the overall problem here is that GW has the whole "spirit of the game" nonsense going on. You COULD spam Scatter Lasers or D-weapons... but you'd be a bad person and acting against the spirit of the game if you did that. But you're still allowed to... that's always been the underlying issue. They give you the ability to do things in the name of "options" but at the same time click their tongue and say how you're a bad, bad person if you do that. It's like having a bowl full of $100 bills that says "Free Money" and then calling you a thief when you take one.

**Tinchebrai**

Part of the overall problem here is that GW has the whole "spirit of the game" nonsense going on. You COULD spam Scatter Lasers or D-weapons... but you'd be a bad person and acting against the spirit of the game if you did that. But you're still allowed to... that's always been the underlying issue. They give you the ability to do things in the name of "options" but at the same time click their tongue and say how you're a bad, bad person if you do that. It's like having a bowl full of $100 bills that says "Free Money" and then calling you a thief when you take one.

**Rippy**

#OperationScatfork will be trending before the days end

**Wayniac**

Tinchebrai wrote:
Good point and I agree. It is always warms my heart when a for profit corporation instructs me on the finer points of morality.

To be fair though that's been the problem for like 20 years. Back in my day (lol) they had articles in White Dwarf talking about if you took certain powerful magic items in WHFB, for example, you were not playing in the spirit of the game and were a bad opponent. Yet they let you take those options without restrictions.

This is just the evolution of that.

**BrotherGecko**

Its reverse psychology so that you are compelled to take it.

I wouldn't be surprised if "spend more" was in tiny font between every word in the new eldar codex.

**DoomShakaLaka**

BrotherGecko wrote:
Its reverse psychology so that you are compelled to take it.

I wouldn't be surprised if "spend more" was in tiny font between every word in the new eldar codex.

I'm sure it is.

Honestly I am abit confused on what stance to take here.

I have no power to make eldar players not go to tournaments and such so I am left with two options: ( purchasing Eldar is NOT an option)
1. Stop going to tournaments. Even the pseudo ones at my FLGS.
2. Go to tournaments and have 0 chance of winning. ( I never win anyways so its not THAT much of a difference, but still....)

All the guys I know that play Eldar are mad about this new codex, and they believe that no one will want to play with them because they'll be labelled WAAC cheese-mongers (which will probably happen IMO)

I think I am just going to rough it out for a while and see what happens. Maybe GW just leaked those rules to build up excitement/attention and then they'll nerf the super OP stuff after its released. I know movie makers do something similar trying to get as much attention from "negative content" as possible and then tame it down.

**Blacksails**

The book exists in all its glory.

The only thing you can hope for is a FAQ/Errata, but given their track record with those, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Just remember, this isn't a leak anymore, this is grade A, confirmed level bs. No need to pretend it might change.

**Rippy**

DoomShakaLaka wrote:

All the guys I know that play Eldar are mad about this new codex, and they believe that no one will want to play with them because they'll be labelled WAAC cheese-mongers (which will probably happen IMO)

This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blacksails wrote:
The book exists in all its glory.

The only thing you can hope for is a FAQ/Errata, but given their track record with those, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Just remember, this isn't a leak anymore, this is grade A, confirmed level bs. No need to pretend it might change.

They wont, as much as they need too. Hopefully all the cheese lords buy out heaps of OP units, and then they get nerfed a week after.

**Accolade**

Rippy wrote:
DoomShakaLaka wrote:

All the guys I know that play Eldar are mad about this new codex, and they believe that no one will want to play with them because they'll be labelled WAAC cheese-mongers (which will probably happen IMO)

This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

Most definitely, the Eldar players are getting punished for something they have absolutely no control over. It's why I'm so frustrated with GW- they could do this game right, they could put in the small amount of revenue it would take to playtest and keep things balanced, but they choose not to. In fact, they choose nearly the opposite- purposely unbalancing the game as to maintain higher levels of sales.

I love 40k, but GW has been very effectively eroding anything I hold dear about it.

**JohnHwangDD**

Rippy wrote:
This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

It does not hurt Eldar players in the least.

It hurts weak "competitive" players who can't compete, who don't adapt, and who need Easy Buttons to win.

The QQing and TwT that's dominating the boards right now are the same as when Wraithlords were broken in 3E (they weren't).

Players need to step up and learn to play instead of crying for mommy every time some other Codex gets some cool stuff.

GW despises what the competitive scene has become, and I love what they've been doing to juice things.

**Blacksails**

I don't know if that's sarcasm or not...

Its certainly a great parody of a few posters' thoughts I've read so far.

If you are serious, I'm sure everyone just needs to adapt harder. Buy the latest book, buy the latest expensive model, ignore themes or fluff and just build the hardest list possible. Nevermind that a codex that is substantially more powerful than the rest hurts all players, regardless of their preferred style of play.

But I'm sure everyone just needs to adapt and learn to play better. That'll fix it.

**Rippy**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Rippy wrote:
This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

It does not hurt Eldar players in the least.

Yes it does. Some Eldar players have already agreed it hurts them.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
It hurts weak "competitive" players who can't compete, who don't adapt, and who need Easy Buttons to win.

So you mean it hurts people who also don't spam OP poorly constructed units?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
The QQing and TwT that's dominating the boards right now are the same as when Wraithlords were broken in 3E (they weren't).

The rules are different than in 3e, so this comment is pointless. They have strong rules about to come out.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Players need to step up and learn to play instead of crying for mommy every time some other Codex gets some cool stuff.

Okay nice trolling comment.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW despises what the competitive scene has become, and I love what they've been doing to juice things.

Nice work presuming you know the inner thinking of GW.

**A Town Called Malus**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Rippy wrote:
This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

It does not hurt Eldar players in the least.

It hurts weak "competitive" players who can't compete, who don't adapt, and who need Easy Buttons to win.

The QQing and TwT that's dominating the boards right now are the same as when Wraithlords were broken in 3E (they weren't).

Players need to step up and learn to play instead of crying for mommy every time some other Codex gets some cool stuff.

GW despises what the competitive scene has become, and I love what they've been doing to juice things.

Why don't the Eldar players need to learn to play?

**Truth118**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Rippy wrote:
This is the sad part honestly. It hurts Eldar players the most.

It does not hurt Eldar players in the least.

It hurts weak "competitive" players who can't compete, who don't adapt, and who need Easy Buttons to win.

How does an easy button codex hurt a player that feels he/she needs easy buttons to win? It would help them by providing a style of play they like, I would think.

**Blacksails**

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Why don't the Eldar players need to learn to play?

Eldar players have already transcended the need for petty things like tactics and strategy.

**A Town Called Malus**

Blacksails wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:

Why don't the Eldar players need to learn to play?

Eldar players have already transcended the need for petty things like tactics and strategy.

Ah yes, of course. I forgot.

**Blacksails**

Let's not forget they are a dying race. For all we know, this could very well be their last codex before GW declares them extinct.

**nudibranch**

Can we all please step back a second and realise we're talking about little plastic men? Seriously, calm down. If you treat 40K as anything other than a weird little hobby, maybe you should slow down a little bit....

**Blacksails**

nudibranch wrote:
Can we all please step back a second and realise we're talking about little plastic men? Seriously, calm down. If you treat 40K as anything other than a weird little hobby, maybe you should slow down a little bit....

Everyone's calm, I can assure you. There's been plenty of comedic relief to indicate that. If you're sensing seriousness, maybe you're reading this too intently, and I'd ask you to calm down and remember we're talking about plastic soldiers.

**nudibranch**

Blacksails wrote:
nudibranch wrote:
Can we all please step back a second and realise we're talking about little plastic men? Seriously, calm down. If you treat 40K as anything other than a weird little hobby, maybe you should slow down a little bit....

Everyone's calm, I can assure you. There's been plenty of comedic relief to indicate that. If you're sensing seriousness, maybe you're reading this too intently, and I'd ask you to calm down and remember we're talking about plastic soldiers.

Some people seem awfully serious... Sorry, I'm not good with sarcasm.

**JohnHwangDD**

Blacksails wrote:
I don't know if that's sarcasm or not...

Its certainly a great parody of a few posters' thoughts I've read so far.

If you are serious, I'm sure everyone just needs to adapt harder. Buy the latest book, buy the latest expensive model, ignore themes or fluff and just build the hardest list possible. Nevermind that a codex that is substantially more powerful than the rest hurts all players, regardless of their preferred style of play.

But I'm sure everyone just needs to adapt and learn to play better. That'll fix it.

Deadly fething serious, pal.

This "chicken little" stuff comes out every time. Also the "my army is destroyed". It's ridiculous.

Again, DEADLY SERIOUS.

They do. Especially the playing, as in "having fun", separate from "kicking the other guy's ass".

**niv-mizzet**

So you'd be absolutely stoked to play against my 1 point reaver Titan then? (Plus the other 1849 points of army.) you wouldn't say anything about how that seems a little broken?

I guess if you can't beat my 1 point reaver Titan, you just need to adapt and learn to play, right?

Maybe I'll throw in a couple 1 point knights, and some 1 point stormravens too. Remember, you're not allowed to complain at all or you're a "QQing crybaby."

**JohnHwangDD**

If you can show me the GW Codex where it's printed, I'm good with it.

If you're just making gak up, I can do that, too.