Ban Eldar from All Competitive Play. Operation Pitchfork.

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**Vaktathi**

Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

**Xerics**

Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000

**Eldarain**

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

**Akiasura**

Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000

I've done this too, to be fair. The most competitive player at our area, who is a good friend, has a 3D printer and does some amazing works. The battles look amazing.
The gameplay is dull, since turns end up taking forever, but it's really cool to see everything placed down and take pictures. I usually play Necromunda while it's going on.

My Alpha legion is about 20k in points. I think I can put out that many Eldar though I haven't checked the 6th edition codex. My SW army is all lone wolves to make them the 13th company and can easily breach 50k.
It's a good looking hobby.

**Xerics**

Seeing as how it is in my signature block? 0

**Chosen of Malal**

@Aki: That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

**Vaktathi**

Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000

Yeah, I mean, I've played on similarly sized boards for apoc games in the past, but it's like a once or twice a year thing, not a routine game

**Xerics**

Vaktathi wrote:
Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000
Yeah, I mean, I've played on similarly sized boards for apoc games in the past, but it's like a once or twice a year thing, not a routine game

I wish i could get more larger games like this though. Single biggest 1v1 game I ever had was 6500 points on an 8x4 table

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My local area only has it once a year. makes me sad.

**Wayniac**

Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I'll be honest... I wish I did. I mean, I really WANT to start 40k again. But threads like this, seeing how little GW care about the game, the constant price hikes make me just go feth it, why bother. And I play Warmachine, and it still feels "off" to me. Could be nostalgia, I mean i still remember most of the oldschool 40k history and have very fond memories reading White Dwarf and thinking of what to buy. Just the state of the game now is beyond broken IMHO that I can't in good conscious convince myself to spend that kind of money.

I'm the kind of customer GW should want: I get really involved in the lore and the game and I used to love seeing what's new. I know I would have opponents (i'm on a FB group that people are alwys talking about getting together for 40k). But I won't spend a dime because GW has shown they don't care about having a good game.

**Chosen of Malal**

Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000
Yeah, I mean, I've played on similarly sized boards for apoc games in the past, but it's like a once or twice a year thing, not a routine game

I wish i could get more larger games like this though. Single biggest 1v1 game I ever had was 6500 points on an 8x4 table

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My local area only has it once a year. makes me sad.

You forge the gak out of that narrative!

**Akiasura**

Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's like saying 40k is like tower defense because the ranges are so large I can just sit still and shoot across a table. It's a very dishonest picture that doesn't do the true game justice.

**Xerics**

Chosen of Malal wrote:
Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Xerics wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

I have an apocalypse game next month where we play on a 18 x 6 board. Cant wait to bring out my 20,500 points of eldar as the apocalypse games where I am at are "Bring everything you own and we will sort teams based on points".

Automatically Appended Next Post:
although with point boost to certain units on the board (my 4 wraithknights and all 30 of my bikes getting scatter lasers) it might be closer to 21000
Yeah, I mean, I've played on similarly sized boards for apoc games in the past, but it's like a once or twice a year thing, not a routine game

I wish i could get more larger games like this though. Single biggest 1v1 game I ever had was 6500 points on an 8x4 table

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My local area only has it once a year. makes me sad.

You forge the gak out of that narrative!

Lol I didnt have to forge a narrative. We used 2 CAD each and put out 6500 Eldar vs 6500 Orks.

**Chosen of Malal**

Gamgee wrote:
The only way to get a message through to the big GW that this is completely unacceptable way to make a codex is to throw up a gak storm. The biggest way to do that? Well show them we won't even play with them. I know I intend to. Many of my players in my local FLGS intend to. Though I need to convince them to ban them from tournaments all together. The more the Eldar players complain and bitch about us complaining and bitching about their so obviously broken and favoritism codex the faster we can wrap this up. It's going to get messy before the end though. These half measures and trying to be "reasonable" with GW and even a certain subset of Eldar players is clearly not working. So it's time to kick things up a notch.

Can I at least get people who will agree to no games with them?

If there are any Eldar players out there with any remorse or guilt for the entire health of the game and 40k scene I implore you to do one of two things. Cheese the ever loving gak out of your codex and get yourself loathed and banned. Or don't play at all. Thanks.

As always the bigger we make this the quicker we'll get an answer.

Thanks. Remember cause mayhem. This Eldar Codex can't be allowed to stand.

I Gamgee swear to throw up a gak storm and use any method possible to get GW attention.

Edit
Since I started this thread and including myself there are four people who will no longer play against Eldar players. All it takes is a little team work. I'll continue to update this.
If I missed your name send me a PM or let me know in the thread and I'll add it.

Operation Members:
Gamgee
Orock
Torga_DW
Rippy

I just wanted to point out that after all of this, four people in total have agreed to this. Way to hit GW in the pocket, boys.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's like saying 40k is like tower defense because the ranges are so large I can just sit still and shoot across a table. It's a very dishonest picture that doesn't do the true game justice.

Not true at all, you stated several combos in all that, not just one.

**Xerics**

Chosen of Malal wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
The only way to get a message through to the big GW that this is completely unacceptable way to make a codex is to throw up a gak storm. The biggest way to do that? Well show them we won't even play with them. I know I intend to. Many of my players in my local FLGS intend to. Though I need to convince them to ban them from tournaments all together. The more the Eldar players complain and bitch about us complaining and bitching about their so obviously broken and favoritism codex the faster we can wrap this up. It's going to get messy before the end though. These half measures and trying to be "reasonable" with GW and even a certain subset of Eldar players is clearly not working. So it's time to kick things up a notch.

Can I at least get people who will agree to no games with them?

If there are any Eldar players out there with any remorse or guilt for the entire health of the game and 40k scene I implore you to do one of two things. Cheese the ever loving gak out of your codex and get yourself loathed and banned. Or don't play at all. Thanks.

As always the bigger we make this the quicker we'll get an answer.

Thanks. Remember cause mayhem. This Eldar Codex can't be allowed to stand.

I Gamgee swear to throw up a gak storm and use any method possible to get GW attention.

Edit
Since I started this thread and including myself there are four people who will no longer play against Eldar players. All it takes is a little team work. I'll continue to update this.
If I missed your name send me a PM or let me know in the thread and I'll add it.

Operation Members:
Gamgee
Orock
Torga_DW
Rippy

I just wanted to point out that after all of this, four people in total have agreed to this. Way to hit GW in the pocket, boys.

I like how the thread is about banning Eldar from tournaments and stuff. When Imperial Knights came out I was glad someone in the store would bring 5 to a 2000 point battle... I played against that army all the time and learned how to beat it. Instead of crying about Eldar be glad there is an Eldar player near you so you will get lots of practice

**ninety0ne**

Gamgee wrote:
raiden wrote:
No need for this. Just stop buying the OP models. GW isn't going to listen until we cause them a LOT of monetary loss. Boycott would-be a better course

Statistically speaking boycotts almost never work. Only throwing a gak storm causes people to pay attention. There's been a few studies showing this. Although if we throw a gak storm AND boycott even better. Why bring a knife to a fight when you can bring a knife and a gun.

I think the odds of changing past behavior (a codex) are much less than changing future behavior if your idea were 100% successful. What will most likely change is the codex on the drawing board right now in the case of a complete success of your advocated plan.

**niv-mizzet**

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's like saying 40k is like tower defense because the ranges are so large I can just sit still and shoot across a table. It's a very dishonest picture that doesn't do the true game justice.

Magic DCI judge and tourney player here. You apparently haven't seen some of the more intense magic combos like mind's desire and enduring ideal/zur's weirding.

There are all kinds of complications and decision trees even while the combo is going off. That's why people playing hard combo decks practice them a ton. One of the times I made finalist in a PTQ, the guy I beat to get in top 8 ran mind's desire, got messed up by a draw he couldn't string into the combo, mana burned for 2 (back when that was a thing) which brought his life down to the exact total of direct damage I had in hand:

**Akiasura**

Chosen of Malal wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's like saying 40k is like tower defense because the ranges are so large I can just sit still and shoot across a table. It's a very dishonest picture that doesn't do the true game justice.

Not true at all, you stated several combos in all that, not just one.

Very true, this is one combo called the Molik Missile. If any part of the combo fails, the whole thing falls apart and you lose a very expensive warbeast and are down on attrition. I don't know how you could call it multiple combos.
If I play multiple cards in magic, it is one combo even though I did multiple actions. Same in any fighting game. But the difficultly and input required to pull off a combo in each of those games is dramatically different. 40k has combos too, they are just a lot easier then this to pull off.

You also failed to comment on the fact that it requires dice rolls, can fail, I can die from it, I need risk assessment, and my enemy can do a lot to stop it. This isn't even a competitive combo, most good opponents can counter it.

Edit;
niv-mizzet, so the player got screwed by a draw? So risk assessment is a thing, I haven't played magic since it first released.
Please tell me all the careful positioning he did and how his enemy managed to stop him by carefully positioning his cards.
Oh and the die rolls. I missed those too in your description.

**techsoldaten**

Akiasura wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:

You make it sound so easy for someone to pick up and army and master the rules. I don't know if this is true for everyone.

It should take around 10 games. This is a pretty small learning curve compared to shooting games, fighting games, MOBAs, and other table tops.

Really? People need that many games to just master rules and a single army? Either that is a hyperbole or everyone I play with is incredibly smart. And personally I found Warmachine, FoW and Dystopian Wars all easier to learn than 40k. 40k takes more time to master due to the sheer amount of rules.

You are the first person I have ever heard to claim that.

No, you heard that from me previously in this thread.

Akiasura wrote:
I don't think you can claim that 10 games is a long time to master 40k's rules, then say it's a complex game, and then say WMH should take even less times. Those statements contradict each other.

I think WMH takes a lot less time to learn, it's a much simpler game. There are fewer things you can do as a player.

Akiasura wrote:

In WMH, just knowing how to mitigate different feats, what pathfinder and eyeless sight can do, how weird CoC is, how annoying Menoth's Choir can be, and the crazyness of the teleport circle has can take a while to master. Learning how to utilize focus and mitigate fury and how each caster plays takes a very very long time.

This is a much shorter list than the one I laid out previously about core concepts for playing 40k. Are you reading what you are writing?

Anyways, the new Eldar Codex doesn't worry me because it does take an experienced player to handle an OP list in 40k. It's never been a game where you can just buy and army and win consistently.

People who claim otherwise tend to engage in specious arguments and use a lot of words without saying much.

**Akiasura**

techsoldaten wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Akiasura wrote:
techsoldaten wrote:

You make it sound so easy for someone to pick up and army and master the rules. I don't know if this is true for everyone.

It should take around 10 games. This is a pretty small learning curve compared to shooting games, fighting games, MOBAs, and other table tops.

Really? People need that many games to just master rules and a single army? Either that is a hyperbole or everyone I play with is incredibly smart. And personally I found Warmachine, FoW and Dystopian Wars all easier to learn than 40k. 40k takes more time to master due to the sheer amount of rules.

You are the first person I have ever heard to claim that.

No, you heard that from me previously in this thread.

Akiasura wrote:
I don't think you can claim that 10 games is a long time to master 40k's rules, then say it's a complex game, and then say WMH should take even less times. Those statements contradict each other.

I think WMH takes a lot less time to learn, it's a much simpler game. There are fewer things you can do as a player.

Akiasura wrote:

In WMH, just knowing how to mitigate different feats, what pathfinder and eyeless sight can do, how weird CoC is, how annoying Menoth's Choir can be, and the crazyness of the teleport circle has can take a while to master. Learning how to utilize focus and mitigate fury and how each caster plays takes a very very long time.

This is a much shorter list than the one I laid out previously about core concepts for playing 40k. Are you reading what you are writing?

Well, I didn't want to lay them all out, but if list size is a thing;
Weapon lock
Throw
Headbutt
Crippling cortex
Combo Strike
Rough Terrain
Walls
Generate terrain via tiers
Upkeeps
Ctrl spells
Purification
Pass out focus or hold
Leech fury from beasts
Heal beasts
Trample
Feat
Mini-feat
Run
Charge
Aim
CMA
CRA
Measure ctrl area
Promote grunts to leaders
Covering fire
Summon storm pods
Teleport
Revive troopers, who may get to activate again
Go incorp or not
Cast animi
Arc node
Boost
Buy attacks
And just for fun, deployment and terrain utilization.
Also, walk through walls or units, because some guys can do that.
Oh, some units can cast spells. Not just the caster as well.

I'm not going to list everything everyone can do, because it's a huge list. Units in WMH do a lot more then 40k.

techsoldaten wrote:

Anyways, the new Eldar Codex doesn't worry me because it does take an experienced player to handle an OP list in 40k. It's never been a game where you can just buy and army and win consistently.

People who claim otherwise tend to engage in specious arguments and use a lot of words without saying much.

In coming personal attack because you can't back up your point....

Editions are defined by lists. Lists that are OP and have swept tables. Most experienced players are well aware of them, and they are given names. While a completely new player will struggle to win, it doesn't take long to become a veteran.

**Deadnight**

Talys wrote:

You misunderstand me: *MY* average game looks a lot better than the last photo I linked. I would post a pic of one of my tables, but I value my privacy, and doing so would share who I am and what my home looks like to the world

You actually made my point for me: the 40k game on a 12x6 just looks better than the WMH board on 4x4, even though there's nothing special about the 40k game. Why? More stuff. More models. Bigger models. It doesn't take any extra effort to make 40k look great, even for casual players.

Like I said, that's not an 'average' game. Most average games if 40k I've seen are with a bare minimum of terrain as well, typically on a 4 by 4 or 6 by 4, and not on an epic 12 by 6 board. Remember - you are not a good indicator of whatt constitutes 'average'.

It doesn't take any extra afford to make 40k look great? True. Except for the part where it does take a lot of extra effort. Time. Money. Physical work. Epic boards don't just happen by themselves. I prefer painting models; my friend loves making terrain - and he's really good at it. All his boards age terrain pieces involve a huge amount of time and work on his part. And like I said, not everyone has the time, resources or space to to that.

The Ability for 40k look good on an average board (6 by 4, or 4 by 4) applies equally to WMH. 40k is not unique.

**niv-mizzet**

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's like saying 40k is like tower defense because the ranges are so large I can just sit still and shoot across a table. It's a very dishonest picture that doesn't do the true game justice.

Not true at all, you stated several combos in all that, not just one.

Very true, this is one combo called the Molik Missile. If any part of the combo fails, the whole thing falls apart and you lose a very expensive warbeast and are down on attrition. I don't know how you could call it multiple combos.
If I play multiple cards in magic, it is one combo even though I did multiple actions. Same in any fighting game. But the difficultly and input required to pull off a combo in each of those games is dramatically different. 40k has combos too, they are just a lot easier then this to pull off.

You also failed to comment on the fact that it requires dice rolls, can fail, I can die from it, I need risk assessment, and my enemy can do a lot to stop it. This isn't even a competitive combo, most good opponents can counter it.

Edit;
niv-mizzet, so the player got screwed by a draw? So risk assessment is a thing, I haven't played magic since it first released.
Please tell me all the careful positioning he did and how his enemy managed to stop him by carefully positioning his cards.
Oh and the die rolls. I missed those too in your description.

Well, ignoring the snark, card draws are functionally the same as dice rolls. His combo involves getting random cards off his deck after a shuffle, and of course he has many copies of all the cards that can keep the combo going. The issue is how many cards he gets to draw on the first combo starter. So it's a combination of risk assessment, he needs to figure out if I'm killing him next turn or not, which includes unknown information about what's in my hand to figure out if he can wait a turn or not, or if he needs to expend some resources to defend himself rather than take some damage or go off early on the combo. True that in game-ender combos like this, the opponent's best strategy is "send everything in ASAP!"

But there are plenty of "lesser" combos like the WMH one you describe that aren't the entire focal point of the match. They just enable other tactics or tie the hands of the opponent somewhat.

If you ever want to overload your brain, go play against a pro with a gifts ungiven mirror match. The game can literally turn into a Xanatos gambit pileup. (see tv tropes about that.)

**JohnHwangDD**

Eldarain wrote:
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

At 20,000+ points, he's twice as invested into Eldar as I am (9,500 points at last count - likely higher now). Not that points count matters that much. I'd be pissed at the OP if I only had 5,000 pts of Eldar. Or even a mere 2,000 points. I bought it, I want the option to play it.

Telling me that my army is now banned because some scrubs can't man up? No.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

They look nice in pictures, but the games get a bit unwieldy. I prefer to play smaller on a 4x6, or maybe 3k per side on 4x8. Keep things moving!

**Quickjager**

You can always find a sucke- er, I mean another Eldar player to fight.

**Vaktathi**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

At 20,000+ points, he's twice as invested into Eldar as I am (9,500 points at last count - likely higher now). Not that points count matters that much. I'd be pissed at the OP if I only had 5,000 pts of Eldar. Or even a mere 2,000 points. I bought it, I want the option to play it.

Telling me that my army is now banned because some scrubs can't man up? No.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

They look nice in pictures, but the games get a bit unwieldy. I prefer to play smaller on a 4x6, or maybe 3k per side on 4x8. Keep things moving!

I wonder why such outrage and energy is not directed at the way say, most FW army lists are banned at tournaments.

**Talys**

Deadnight wrote:
Talys wrote:

You misunderstand me: *MY* average game looks a lot better than the last photo I linked. I would post a pic of one of my tables, but I value my privacy, and doing so would share who I am and what my home looks like to the world

You actually made my point for me: the 40k game on a 12x6 just looks better than the WMH board on 4x4, even though there's nothing special about the 40k game. Why? More stuff. More models. Bigger models. It doesn't take any extra effort to make 40k look great, even for casual players.

Like I said, that's not an 'average' game. Most average games if 40k I've seen are with a bare minimum of terrain as well, typically on a 4 by 4 or 6 by 4, and not on an epic 12 by 6 board. Remember - you are not a good indicator of west constitutes 'average'.

It doesn't take any extra afford to make 40k look great? True. Except for the part where it does take a lot of extra effort. Time. Money. Physical work. Epic boards don't just happen by themselves. I prefer painting models; my friend loves making terrain - and he's really good at it. All his boards age terrain pieces involve a huge amount of time and work on his part. And like I said, not everyone has the time, resources or space to to that.

The Ability for 40k look good on an average board (6 by 4, or 4 by 4) applies equally to WMH. 40k is not unique.

The average game if 40k is not 4x4. The average game is 1850 on 6x4, and at this ratio, the table looks great.

If you want to commit to beautiful play environment, there is a community to do so for 40k. Such s thing does nit exist for WMH, anywhere that I've seen. Even if you just play with basic terrain pieces 1850 points of most armies can look great.

I am not your average 40k player, but I started out that way, and over many years accumulated stuff. My aspiration, however, was always to play with awe-inspiring miniatures, even when I couldn't afford it.

I would further assert that anyone who isn't into miniatures I going to have more fun with another game -- one that doesn't require you to spend tons of time to model a nice looking battleforce. Just go buy xwing, for example, and save yourself the trouble of modeling.

**niv-mizzet**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

At 20,000+ points, he's twice as invested into Eldar as I am (9,500 points at last count - likely higher now). Not that points count matters that much. I'd be pissed at the OP if I only had 5,000 pts of Eldar. Or even a mere 2,000 points. I bought it, I want the option to play it.

Telling me that my army is now banned because some scrubs can't man up? No.

What if you did have the option to play it, just toned down to reasonable levels. Like say the 6e version that already wins more 1st place spots in the ITC than any other book? Or are you just interested in playing the most OP thing in the game to beat people with so you can convince yourself that that makes you "good" in any way?

**Rippy**

Chosen of Malal wrote:
Gamgee wrote:

Operation Members:
Gamgee
Orock
Torga_DW
Rippy

I just wanted to point out that after all of this, four people in total have agreed to this. Way to hit GW in the pocket, boys.

Lol calm down friend. I "signed" the agreement as any codex that is miles above the rest should be house ruled AT LEAST if they go in competitions. Doesn't mean I still won't play Eldar (unless they bring spammy cheesebeard lists, in which case I wouldn't be interested in playing that kind of person in a social fun game anyway. Challenging, yes, boring cheesespam, no.) Source: bored of playing cheesebeards.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xerics wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
Gamgee wrote:
The only way to get a message through to the big GW that this is completely unacceptable way to make a codex is to throw up a gak storm. The biggest way to do that? Well show them we won't even play with them. I know I intend to. Many of my players in my local FLGS intend to. Though I need to convince them to ban them from tournaments all together. The more the Eldar players complain and bitch about us complaining and bitching about their so obviously broken and favoritism codex the faster we can wrap this up. It's going to get messy before the end though. These half measures and trying to be "reasonable" with GW and even a certain subset of Eldar players is clearly not working. So it's time to kick things up a notch.

Can I at least get people who will agree to no games with them?

If there are any Eldar players out there with any remorse or guilt for the entire health of the game and 40k scene I implore you to do one of two things. Cheese the ever loving gak out of your codex and get yourself loathed and banned. Or don't play at all. Thanks.

As always the bigger we make this the quicker we'll get an answer.

Thanks. Remember cause mayhem. This Eldar Codex can't be allowed to stand.

I Gamgee swear to throw up a gak storm and use any method possible to get GW attention.

Edit
Since I started this thread and including myself there are four people who will no longer play against Eldar players. All it takes is a little team work. I'll continue to update this.
If I missed your name send me a PM or let me know in the thread and I'll add it.

Operation Members:
Gamgee
Orock
Torga_DW
Rippy

I just wanted to point out that after all of this, four people in total have agreed to this. Way to hit GW in the pocket, boys.

I like how the thread is about banning Eldar from tournaments and stuff. When Imperial Knights came out I was glad someone in the store would bring 5 to a 2000 point battle... I played against that army all the time and learned how to beat it. Instead of crying about Eldar be glad there is an Eldar player near you so you will get lots of practice

You are truely a god incarnate and we are all so amazed by your heroic skill.

**JohnHwangDD**

Akiasura wrote:
Chosen of Malal wrote:
That's great, all those combos sure sound alot like Magic to me.

That's...one combo.
It involves careful positioning, risk assessment, and work being done prior successfully just to launch. I can die from it. At any point, dice can fail me.
No combo in Magic works that way.

That's not a combo, it's a Rube Goldberg contraption!

Magic doesn't do combos like that, because combos intend to win once they go off. Magic prefers cluster combos with largely interchangeable parts to improve stability and speed, reducing dependence upon having a stall or surprise counter.

That said, there are a number of equally long chains possible in Magic tied to things like Storm or decking, or bulk synergy effects. If I'm going to Tendrils you to death in TPS, I might need to generate a chain of 10+ spells - that's going to take a lot of draw and mana to pull off, so making that happen is non-trivial. If you count continuous activity in which the opponent does basically nothing, the time from when I drop a Stasis to the time my opponent dies/concedes is a similarly long chain of activity.

**Chosen of Malal**

niv-mizzet wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

At 20,000+ points, he's twice as invested into Eldar as I am (9,500 points at last count - likely higher now). Not that points count matters that much. I'd be pissed at the OP if I only had 5,000 pts of Eldar. Or even a mere 2,000 points. I bought it, I want the option to play it.

Telling me that my army is now banned because some scrubs can't man up? No.

What if you did have the option to play it, just toned down to reasonable levels. Like say the 6e version that already wins more 1st place spots in the ITC than any other book? Or are you just interested in playing the most OP thing in the game to beat people with so you can convince yourself that that makes you "good" in any way?

I actually plan on running Vypers for once, the majority of my army has always consisted of Guardians, and I have quite a few Falcons and Aspect Warriors. The subject of this entire thread is refusing to play against someone with an Eldar army, not refusing to play against a cheesy Eldar player. He wants you to ban the Eldar army from competitive tournaments period, not limit units or toning anything down to reasonable levels. Taudar was never banned, Leafblower was never banned, White Scars isn't banned, Drop Pod spam isn't banned, Screamerstar was never banned, Beaststar was never banned, do I need to keep going? All you whiners need to grow a pair.

**JohnHwangDD**

Vaktathi wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what percent of Xerics posts don't mention he has over 20,000 points of Eldar?

At 20,000+ points, he's twice as invested into Eldar as I am (9,500 points at last count - likely higher now). Not that points count matters that much. I'd be pissed at the OP if I only had 5,000 pts of Eldar. Or even a mere 2,000 points. I bought it, I want the option to play it.

Telling me that my army is now banned because some scrubs can't man up? No.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vaktathi wrote:
Who plays on 12x6 boards? Who plays with dioramas?

They look nice in pictures, but the games get a bit unwieldy. I prefer to play smaller on a 4x6, or maybe 3k per side on 4x8. Keep things moving!
I wonder why such outrage and energy is not directed at the way say, most FW army lists are banned at tournaments.

I have no issue with FW lists or stuff. It's amusing how tournaments have moved to this Kabuki thing of narrowed selection versus GW telling everybody to let their toys come off the shelf!