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 warboss wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Well, this chases players like me out of any semblance of tourney scene, because I love the model and own a lot of them and am barred from playing due to the perception of power-gaming by others. A shame.

So out off all those impressive 500+ gallery pics you uploaded, you can't make any legal multidetachment force you like for tournies? Or is the above just for dramatic effect (posted from a chase with your arm over your forehead)? Regardless of personal feelings that super heavies NEVER belonged in regular games let alone whole armies of them, you're not exactly giving TOs a reasonable chance to reevaluate and respondent to this apparent change before playing the "woe is me" card.

Yeah, for every person with a super heavy army getting "chased out" of tournaments, I think they're losing a lot or regular players who would like to see their squads of Space Marines do more than instantly explode from a round of shooting from these massive vehicles.

Otherwise, I wish they'd just bring back Epic and people could get out their titan fancies that way.

 warboss wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Well, this chases players like me out of any semblance of tourney scene, because I love the model and own a lot of them and am barred from playing due to the perception of power-gaming by others. A shame.

So out off all those impressive 500+ gallery pics you uploaded, you can't make any legal multidetachment force you like for tournies? Or is the above just for dramatic effect (posted from a chase with your arm over your forehead)? Regardless of personal feelings that super heavies NEVER belonged in regular games let alone whole armies of them, you're not exactly giving TOs a reasonable chance to reevaluate and respondent to this apparent change before playing the "woe is me" card.

A bit hostile, yes? I paint commissions, so pretty much nothing in my gallery is mine. Nice though, way to be rude.

And "Regardless of personal feelings that super heavies NEVER belonged in regular games let alone whole armies of them" is an opinion. I love super-heavies. I routinely read about them in the various BL novels and think they add a neat, expensive unit to the game that often isn't game-breaking, just game-changing. Which is healthy, imo.

And Knights and other super-heavies have been in 40k for a while. Hardly a sudden thing, so plenty of time to accumulate the "woe is me" card I threw down . I am sure some events that did let them in have some data on whether they were detrimental or not, too. So, again, maybe stop trying to change the game to fit the perception of balance and let it work the kinks out on its own? Just a thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Accolade wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Well, this chases players like me out of any semblance of tourney scene, because I love the model and own a lot of them and am barred from playing due to the perception of power-gaming by others. A shame.

So out off all those impressive 500+ gallery pics you uploaded, you can't make any legal multidetachment force you like for tournies? Or is the above just for dramatic effect (posted from a chase with your arm over your forehead)? Regardless of personal feelings that super heavies NEVER belonged in regular games let alone whole armies of them, you're not exactly giving TOs a reasonable chance to reevaluate and respondent to this apparent change before playing the "woe is me" card.

Yeah, for every person with a super heavy army getting "chased out" of tournaments, I think they're losing a lot or regular players who would like to see their squads of Space Marines do more than instantly explode from a round of shooting from these massive vehicles.

Otherwise, I wish they'd just bring back Epic and people could get out their titan fancies that way.

To be fair, plenty of non LoW units do that and then some. Drop Pod in front of Tau. Stand up against the new Scatterlaser Jetbikes. Get blasted by a Vindicator. Losing a unit isn't new to 40k. It just means you have to learn to play better than your opponent. Isn't that how it has always been?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Well, this chases players like me out of any semblance of tourney scene, because I love the model and own a lot of them and am barred from playing due to the perception of power-gaming by others. A shame.

So out off all those impressive 500+ gallery pics you uploaded, you can't make any legal multidetachment force you like for tournies? Or is the above just for dramatic effect (posted from a chase with your arm over your forehead)? Regardless of personal feelings that super heavies NEVER belonged in regular games let alone whole armies of them, you're not exactly giving TOs a reasonable chance to reevaluate and respondent to this apparent change before playing the "woe is me" card.

Yeah, for every person with a super heavy army getting "chased out" of tournaments, I think they're losing a lot or regular players who would like to see their squads of Space Marines do more than instantly explode from a round of shooting from these massive vehicles.

Otherwise, I wish they'd just bring back Epic and people could get out their titan fancies that way.

To be fair, plenty of non LoW units do that and then some. Drop Pod in front of Tau. Stand up against the new Scatterlaser Jetbikes. Get blasted by a Vindicator. Losing a unit isn't new to 40k. It just means you have to learn to play better than your opponent. Isn't that how it has always been?

It has definitely gotten worse over the last many editions, but LOWs represent a point where units can literally do absolutely NO damage to the entire army (4-5 walkers) and so they serve to sit around and get vaporized. I think what it really comes down to is the fact that a good portion of your army becomes invalidated fighting all super-heavies. Things like griffon mortars serve no role in the game other than to just sit there and die for the entire battle. It's just not a fun experience, the other player doesn't even get the opportunity to try to hurt the other army (even if the chances are incredibly slim).

@em

My sarcasm (not hostility) was less than commensurate with your level of unnecessary drama. I could have responded to your dramatic image of you and fellow knight players being "chased" out of tournies by elaborating the scene with ignorant reactionary gamer townsfolk armed with tiny pitchforks made of extra bloodthirster weapon bits (because everyone knows to only use the D axe in tournies!) running behind you as you throw your now useless knight carcasses behind you in an attempt to slow down the mob but I didn't.

You of course ignored the part where you're painting the above apocalyptic scenario within days of the release of this new book whidespite it obviously not being enough time to even get together to consider if a change is needed to allow knights their super special unicorn pass into non-LOW events. If anyone is jumping the gun prematurely, it is you and not those "chasing" you out of tournaments. Also, supers and gargs have only been legal in normal games without expansions for the past year. Please don't misrepresent the facts by throwing in Epic to justify allowing a knight into a 500pt game.

 warboss wrote:
My sarcasm (not hostility) was less than commensurate with your level of unnecessary drama. I could have responded to the overly dramatic image of you and fellow knight players being "chased" out of tournies by ignorant reactionary gamers armed with tiny pitchforks made of extra bloodthirster bits (because everyone knows to only use the D axe in tournies!) desperarely throwing your now useless knight carcasses behind you in an attempt to slow down the mob but I didn't.

You of course ignored the part where you're painting the above apocalyptic scenario within days of the release of this new book whidespite it obviously not being enough time to even get together to consider if a change is needed to allow knights their super special unicorn pass into non-LOW events. If anyone is jumping the gun prematurely, it is you and not those "chasing" you out of tournaments. Also, supers and gargs have only been legal in normal games without expansions for the past year. Please don't misrepresent the facts by throwing in Epic to justify allowing a knight into a 500pt game.

Wow are you just hung up on that word "chasing" or what? Whew. Take a break, go outside and get some fresh air. I was hardly evoking any "drama", just stating that TOs, in their effort to "fix" 40k, exclude players based on perceptions of imbalance. Sheesh, And I didn't even mention Epic... so I don't even know what you are getting at. And I don't read sarcasm from your posts, just hostility. Then again, this is the internet... it does that.

If they're doing it, it is because there is a general consensus about that imbalance amongst their playerbase and you just happen to have a different perception. In any case, a pause would do us both and the thread some good. For me, an hour or two to do some grocery shopping and for you a few weeks to give TOs time to respond. Who knows, the above woe may be for naught this time next month when the TOs extend the special LOW but not a LOW status back to knights. My ultimate point (as opposed to the accompanying opinion) is that you're prematurely chasing yourself away.

 warboss wrote:
If they're doing it, it is because there is a general consensus about that imbalance amongst their playerbase and you just happen to have a different perception. In any case, a pause would do us both and the thread some good. For me, an hour or two to do some grocery shopping and for you a few weeks to give TOs time to respond. Who knows, the above woe may be for naught this time next month when the TOs extend the special LOW but not a LOW status back to knights. My ultimate point (as opposed to the accompanying opinion) is that you're prematurely chasing yourself away.

You could be right. Time will tell. I won't start ruling out events just yet.

Judging from the photo and the placement of the text in the Formation box, the Exalted Court requires 5 Knights.

So if you want to have a Princeps and Heirlooms on every model, prepare for IK to be your entire army.

Also, what's the point of taking a Household detachment over a Baronial Court? Shieldwall + Vassals > ObSec

So they're LOW now, interesting

That pretty much kills ad lance limiting 1 super heavy LOW at most tournaments

Does the codex have any special characters in it?

Is it possible to make all 3 variants with 2 warden boxes and 1 paladin boxes. Seeing if I can save money.

Thachng wrote:
Is it possible to make all 3 variants with 2 warden boxes and 1 paladin boxes. Seeing if I can save money.

The new box has all options to build any of the knights available inside, right?

Yes it does.

To digress slightly, I've noticed a few people talking about 'invisibility' - is this a way of playing, a psychic power or something else? Sorry if it's a daft question. Ta.

 bubber wrote:
Yes it does.

To digress slightly, I've noticed a few people talking about 'invisibility' - is this a way of playing, a psychic power or something else? Sorry if it's a daft question. Ta.

Psyker power, its pretty nasty, makes the target only able to be shot at by snap shots, and hit in melee by 6s

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 bubber wrote:
Yes it does.

To digress slightly, I've noticed a few people talking about 'invisibility' - is this a way of playing, a psychic power or something else? Sorry if it's a daft question. Ta.

Psyker power, its pretty nasty, makes the target only able to be shot at by snap shots, and hit in melee by 6s

Cheers mate - I run Typhus so much I forget to look at the generic stuff in the rulebook!!

buying 3 warden boxes is $555 aud but buying 2 warden and one paladin costs $525 but 2 of the extra sprues should have enough bits to make one of each of the new knights I hope.

Formations add a lot to the IKs.

Obsec and Anti-Air where their achille's heels previously, now it just looks like they have to contend with obscene points costs.

So a little rule lawyering here, but the Baronial Court says "3-5 Imperial Knights (any type)"

Would that include the FW ones? Cause the wording Any Type leads me to believe it does.

So anyone want to update battlesribe pleaaaase

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So a little rule lawyering here, but the Baronial Court says "3-5 Imperial Knights (any type)"

Would that include the FW ones? Cause the wording Any Type leads me to believe it does.

Unless forgeworld changes the data sheets it would seem so.

The real FAQ question that I see in terms of FW rules interaction is the heirloom that gives a 6+ invulnerable to non-ion shielded facing and the knight lancer. The heirloom says it acts as an ion shield plus it's rules but the lancer has the ion gauntlet so does that mean it gets both? Probably not but an example of some cleanup FW will have to do with this release.

@WrentheFaceless - I think it would allow FW IKs! Well, I'd allow it in any of my games, for sure.

I just picked up my copy of the Codex. My store was really nice, actually, and sold me the new codex at 40% off, because I have bitched so many times about the first IK codex being a heap of dog poo. I told 'em I'd bring back the old one and they could do whatever they wanted with it Maybe GW will let them stock balance it or something.

Picked up the new Imperial Knight (Warden) too -- the instruction booklet is really beautiful, with full page stat pages for each knight, as we saw, and the new sprues look solid. I passed on the IK datacards, though (that's like, the first set of cards I haven't bought in ... forever, lol... I just don't think I'll ever play IK primary detachment).

Also got WD 67: the Kastelan Robots really do look... silly.

The big G isn't in it? Disappointing.

 buddha wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So a little rule lawyering here, but the Baronial Court says "3-5 Imperial Knights (any type)"

Would that include the FW ones? Cause the wording Any Type leads me to believe it does.

Unless forgeworld changes the data sheets it would seem so.

Maybe this a technicality... but has FW ever released their knights with 40k rules?-I'm only aware of their Knight's rules in the Horus Heresy books and if Marines need an Imperial Armor book to take Horus Heresy era units, shouldn't Imperial Knights as well? I imagine you could play the Horus Heresy armylist, but then I don't think these formations would be available to that army.

FW knights are Questoris and Cerastus knights, not Imperial knights. Won't work with the formations as it stands.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
FW knights are Questoris and Cerastus knights, not Imperial knights. Won't work with the formations as it stands.

Codex: Imperial Knights:
Cerastus Knight-Acherons may be
chosen as part of a
Codex: Imperial Knights
army as you
would other types of Knight.

Codex: Imperial Knights:
Questoris Knight Magaera may be
chosen as part of a
Codex: Imperial Knights
army as you
would other types of Knight.

Codex: Imperial Knights:
Cerastus Knight-Castigators may
be chosen as part of a
Codex: Imperial Knights
army as you
would other types of Knight.

Codex: Imperial Knights:
Cerastus Knight-Lancers may be
chosen as part of a
Codex: Imperial Knights
army as you
would other types of Knight.

The text on the rules for the four knights on FW's "downloads" section would seem to imply otherwise. Caveat to that, the Magaera is still stamped "experimental rules".

I don' t know if the Styrix rules in HH4 have a similar text. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new IA book with all five of the FW knights in it relatively soon, though.

Bah, forgot to look there. As i'm in the middle of building an Acheron and a Castigator, it works for me

 Talys wrote:
@WrentheFaceless - I think it would allow FW IKs! Well, I'd allow it in any of my games, for sure.

I just picked up my copy of the Codex. My store was really nice, actually, and sold me the new codex at 40% off, because I have bitched so many times about the first IK codex being a heap of dog poo. I told 'em I'd bring back the old one and they could do whatever they wanted with it Maybe GW will let them stock balance it or something.

Picked up the new Imperial Knight (Warden) too -- the instruction booklet is really beautiful, with full page stat pages for each knight, as we saw, and the new sprues look solid. I passed on the IK datacards, though (that's like, the first set of cards I haven't bought in ... forever, lol... I just don't think I'll ever play IK primary detachment).

Also got WD 67: the Kastelan Robots really do look... silly.

Would you mind sending me images of the instructions? I'm just very curious as to what is included and what parts go where, as I'm waiting to sell my Plasma obliterator and some other 40k stuff to buy this model. (So expensive on the table and in real life haha. )

So, baronial court is the go to with its ionic shield wall, right? Sure, obsec is nice, but how often do your Knights contest an objective?

No gerantius makes me sad. Wonder if his rules in the white dwarf will still be legal. Oh well.

Hopefully the upgrade spruces aren't to expensive on eBay...

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sure, obsec is nice, but how often do your Knights contest an objective?

OS on knights is amazing. allows you to have an answer to eldar jetbikes turbo boosting onto any objective they want every turn racking up VP's against you.

 mixer86 wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Sure, obsec is nice, but how often do your Knights contest an objective?

OS on knights is amazing. allows you to have an answer to eldar jetbikes turbo boosting onto any objective they want every turn racking up VP's against you.

Not if they are in a warhost.

One of the things I thought of aswell, but getting overwatch (marginal) and a 3++ if you are within 6" of another knight is pretty nice.

Crazyterran wrote:So, baronial court is the go to with its ionic shield wall, right? Sure, obsec is nice, but how often do your Knights contest an objective?

Maybe in the big Apocalypse game where you can load up on every model you own, but in a regular game, how often are you going to have a bunch of knights within 6" of each other?