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How many points would you reduce it? I'm looking at runnin the Castigator due to its lack of strength D. It is currently 380 points, how much do you think it would be as a 6 HP walker with an ion shield?

How about don't change the points at all, but give it a straight invul save to include cc.

If I can ask, why are you running it this way? You realize that by changing it to not a super heavy, it means it is one-shottable again?

 curran12 wrote:
If I can ask, why are you running it this way? You realize that by changing it to not a super heavy, it means it is one-shottable again?

Yes. Because I believe that there are currently three extreme balance problems with 40k.

Two are easily fixable:

1, Invisibility. Change to all enemies attacking the affected unit do so at BS/WS1.

2, Drop Pods may only transport Space Marine units. Non-space marine allies may not be embarked on drop pods. In addition, certain units should be given a version of the Bulky rule that does not allow them to embark on transports at all (Wraith units, Centurions).

The third is trickier. The superheavy rules for walkers and MCs currently suffer from an extreme flaw in scaling. Immunity to instant-death, stomp, and the catastrophic death table make sense for models around 1000-2000 points, but very little sense when applied to smaller models. Every superheavy walker/monstrous creature unit below 500 points has at some point in time been a large balance problem, largely because they are an equivalent threat to the titan-sized units when it comes to close combat and durability.

Until new rules are implemented either limiting Superheavies (1/4th of the total army cost works extremely well for 30k) or scaling their power (maybe into Knight-Class, Titan-Class and Imperator-Class Superheavies) superheavies are a problem that I would like to not contribute to.

So, the question is, what would be a sensible points-reduction to a Knight Castigator stripped of the super-heavy rules? Capable of being one-shot, no strength D, but still having 6 HP as well as access to the Tempest attack, which is similar in nature to Stomp. I figure that would give a significant increase in counterplay opportunities for the knight (as it is more destructible) but it would still be a good centerpiece threat to have on the table.

No.

The ability to to not get instagibbed by a lucky melta shot is not op.

If anything, its the stomps that should be done away with. Leave the Invincible Behemoth rule, and get rid of Stomps,and your much better. off.

10 point guns have no business being able to one-shot a 400 point model. They almost still can anyway. I have had no problem fighting 6 hull point super heavies in normal size games. If you bring anti-armor for two tanks, you brought enough for a 6 hp superheavy. If not, ignore it!

I think the problem with super heavies and MC/GMC for that matter, is not that they are not one shottable.

it is that they work at full performance until killed unlike normal vehicles.

Which makes normal vehicles worth less, despite the costs not really reflecting it.

The WK for example, went from being a JMC to a GC with D weapons for 55pts. That's not a lot of points to spend to gain D weapons, and immunity to being 1 shotted, and never having to roll on the vehicle table for stunned, immob, weapon destroyed results.

I agree that 10pt guns have no place 1 shotting expensive models, but I do not think the cost of Super Heavies is very well balanced. Many of them are undercosted, for example if you upped the cost of knights by 50pts a model. People would still take the same amount.

Why bother? The thing is almost 400 points, its highest AV is 13, and its firepower really boils down to a couple of Battle Cannons or a big ass Melta Gun until it gets into H2H. At that point you've got Melta Guns and things like that to kill it.

Knights aren't a balance problem as long as they're taken as a Lord of War (so one per CAD...most likely one per army due to points costs).

But what about an all Knight army?