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I couldn't find a thread specific to CSM.

I was wondering how to deal with a WK with CSM, not using allies or fortifications. Forgeworld and supplements ok. I have heavy tendency towards marines and away from things daemonic. And psychic powers are way too random to rely on. No special characters.
I'm assuming the WK is not a character, in which case a murdersword would probably work wonders.

I thought 6 rapier laser destroyers have a good chance of wounding it and cost roughly as much, but they're difficult to use against the WK. You don't want them next to each other but then the WK can flank....which might be useful but whatever.

All the walkers could hurt it, but neither have enough attacks to bring it down before dying, assuming they even get close to it and the slaughterer can't drag it. A khorne demon prince might put some wounds on it, only to die in turn.

Warp talons would work if you could buff/reduce Toughness but outside of psychic powers or allies I don't see how. Our termies can't catch it and aren't exactly going to destroy it once they do.

A lone sicaran or two won't do much. Only other thing I can think of is maybe ignore it for the most part and engage it with fire raptors/storm eagles, since the're pretty much safe from it.

The less epic 1/1 solution I can think of might be MSU biker/raptors with meltas or drive-by havocs I guess.

I mean, it depends on the playstyle of the Eldar player, but in our group, our main Eldar player likes to run him up the board at you, in which case, engaging him in CC would be easy. So, Landraider filled with Termies would work wonders, especially with the Mark of Khorne. Also, black mace Daemon prince has a very good chance of killing it, though if it doesn't, he's probably dead. Well, maybe. Hitting on 5s, wounding on 2s, 5++ save. Meh, it could happen. Soften him up with some Havocs or Oblits before charging in, and you're good.

I'm looking for solutions that cost roughly the same, so land raider + anything is out lol.
The demon prince would be ok if he had eternal warrior, but being 1 wound away from being toast is kinda putting me off. Getting that though, means you can't really threaten the WK anymore, since it locks you out of the mace.
Still the best option apart from rapiers that I can see though.

Maybe Be'lakor. Guaranteed invis with a fleshbane sword is gonna wreck it. Is a bit more costly but has EW to boot so even if he does hit you you'll probably survive. Psycic shreak to soften up. Only problem is charge range.

Yeah, Be'lakor is probably your only bet if you're looking at similar points cost units.

Roknar wrote:
I couldn't find a thread specific to CSM.

No special characters.

Just a reminder ^^. But I agree, and I certainly wouldn't have to feel bad for bringing belakor against a WK lol. It's just that I don't like using special characters in general. No matter how awesome they are.

A Nurgle poisoned ID Daemon prince would take it out in CC (if it was invis)

Kharn with 35 cultists hitting on 2's would do well. (if you can survive the stomps). He has to come to you as he won't do enough wounds with shooting. Grenades on the cultists as well?

Tbh CSM are underpowered and only DA imo are worse off now.

I guess I should finish up my nurgle mace prince conversion. Looks like he might be needed heh.

To my knowledge, neither fleshbane nor poison is going to work since it's Gargantuan.

 Vache Glace wrote:
A Nurgle poisoned ID Daemon prince would take it out in CC (if it was invis)

Kharn with 35 cultists hitting on 2's would do well. (if you can survive the stomps). He has to come to you as he won't do enough wounds with shooting. Grenades on the cultists as well?

Tbh CSM are underpowered and only DA imo are worse off now.

huh?..where would I get poisened ID on a prince?
And how would I wound the WK with culstists? They're only S3...4 with banner. They don't have grenades either Oo



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
To my knowledge, neither fleshbane nor poison is going to work since it's Gargantuan.

poison becomes 6+, but I don't see anything with fleshbane not working.

But chaos marines don't have any fleshbane.

Kharn and 35 cultists would probably win, but its more points, and the eldar have no reason to let you charge them.

Struggling to see effective counters, except for Belakor and Dthirster.

um pure csm.. uhh. ummm... spawn.. with a jugger lord with a power fist.... and a sorceror.. who rolls up Hammerhand... and invisibility..

Captyn_Bob wrote:
But chaos marines don't have any fleshbane.

Kharn and 35 cultists would probably win, but its more points, and the eldar have no reason to let you charge them.

Struggling to see effective counters, except for Belakor and Dthirster.

um pure csm.. uhh. ummm... spawn.. with a jugger lord with a power fist.... and a sorceror.. who rolls up Hammerhand... and invisibility..

The black Mace has fleshbane and can be taken on a prince to make it ap2.

I said no Special chars, but, I don't see how Kharn would do it. He only ever wounds on a 6 (unless charging) and doesn't get shred. The cultists would tie it up for a turn or two, but kharn would take forever to get through the knight. And the knight will be stomping every turn. Not to mention the difficulties of getting into assault in the first place. And let's not consider what horrible horrible things bikes would do them.
And no psychic powers either ^^. Invis would work, as would rending and maybe some others but it's unreliable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to get this out of the way, Belakor is most certainly the best option we have. But like I said in the OP, I'm looking for more "normal" units.
And so far the black mace prince seems to be the only thing that can take it out with any kind of certainty. Anything else is still kinda iffy.

Plasma or melta havoks with a combi on the champ in a rhino (180-160 respectivly) flat out first turn pop smoke disembark (or have the rhino toasted) should be in range for either double tapping plas or melta should knock off a few wounds per squad(assuming d cannons) and finish it off with oblits or more havoks or even a choosen squad full of spec weapons.

it wont be a garentee kill but certainly a threat.and will need to be delt with.

My dice role-fu isn't good enough for that ....it's still 4+ and then feel no pain. Been trying to roll a few times here, and...well...doesn't end well XD

for one brief moment, i got excited about the murder sword... then realised it only works on characters...

onto real units..

A pack of maulerfiends, some magma, some lashers coudl bring one down.- but they will just die.

Another option is blood slaughterers. (better if boosted with legacy of 1st war armageddon) but pretty hard to get them to connect.

I don't have the codex but I was really really hoping they would be characters lol. The murdersword would really gain some traction.

As for blood slaughters, I would love to use them, but like you said. I don't have the faintest idea how to get them to assault. Eldar would just troll them all day long. Damn gargantuan buff.

A mix of maulerfiend and defiler for less attacks and power scourge would probably work, but good luck making that asaullt yet again.

You could take 3 Tri Las Preds, 140 points a piece isnt much and they function as decent heavy supports... Or run Chaos Rapier Weapon Batteries with Hades Autocannons. 3 in each squad equates to 12 shots with BS 4 str 8...

3 helbrutes would be hilarious to watch but probably useless lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
You could take 3 Tri Las Preds, 140 points a piece isnt much and they function as decent heavy supports... Or run Chaos Rapier Weapon Batteries with Hades Autocannons. 3 in each squad equates to 12 shots with BS 4 str 8...

The laser destroyer rapiers are cheaper and better against the WK, thoguh not quite as versatile as the cannons ofc.

Multiple CADS and single Obliterators are my answers.

Nurgle Bike Lord with Mace in a unit of bikes with a champ with a fist.

The mace isnt AP2, but 3+ saves can be failed.

ACTUALLY, We might just see a return of the Zombie Horde...

Typhus + Zombies. Units of 35 Fearless useless idiots running towards your big bad Gargantuan Creature might sound like an awful Idea, but being locked Indefinitely in combat with the little buggers might be a pain in the ass. 35 Zombies runs you what, 150 points? They'll hug cover, Move then Run, Charge when they corner it, die in droves, but never enough to care because they're fearless.

?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DOUBLE ACTUALLY. FW released the experimental rules for the Demios Vindicator Tank Destroyer. 130 Points, Rules are free. Ordinance 3 TL Str 9 AP 1 if you dont move. Not bad, super cheap and can be spammed like a Jerk

Oh wow, that thing is nice indeed. That's even cheaper than the rapiers and longer range to boot.

What about the Helbrute murderpack formation? Maybe 2 Power Scourges, 3 Thunder hammers and all of them with twin-linked lascannons and then abuse the hell out of the Pack Leader special rule to utilize Fire Frenzy for 10 twin linked Lascannon shots?

Skullhammer wrote:
Plasma or melta havoks with a combi on the champ in a rhino (180-160 respectivly) flat out first turn pop smoke disembark (or have the rhino toasted) should be in range for either double tapping plas or melta should knock off a few wounds per squad(assuming d cannons) and finish it off with oblits or more havoks or even a choosen squad full of spec weapons.

it wont be a garentee kill but certainly a threat.and will need to be delt with.

Don't forget that a GMC doesn't need 25% to be obscured to get cover - just a toe in the woods, so, it's gona get at least 5+ cover save all the time. And it has FNP cause it's GMC. Also has IWND iirc.

10 plasma shots will hit 6.66 of the time, wound 2.22 of the time, cover will reduce it to 1.48 wounds and FNP to 0.98 wounds. At the same time you're inflicting 0.58 wounds to yourself with overheats. I'd not call it effective.

Your answer is to either tarpit it with fearless cultists, kill with invisible murderpack or risk with Be'Lakor or Mace DP having dealt a few wounds beforehand with either shooting or psypowers.

But imo, you should be more afraid of scatbikers. Don't get me wrong, a WK is severely undercosted and cheezy but it's simply not so devastating as their infantry regarding damage output.

 koooaei wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
Plasma or melta havoks with a combi on the champ in a rhino (180-160 respectivly) flat out first turn pop smoke disembark (or have the rhino toasted) should be in range for either double tapping plas or melta should knock off a few wounds per squad(assuming d cannons) and finish it off with oblits or more havoks or even a choosen squad full of spec weapons.

it wont be a garentee kill but certainly a threat.and will need to be delt with.

Don't forget that a GMC doesn't need 25% to be obscured to get cover - just a toe in the woods, so, it's gona get at least 5+ cover save all the time. And it has FNP cause it's GMC. Also has IWND iirc.

10 plasma shots will hit 6.66 of the time, wound 2.22 of the time, cover will reduce it to 1.48 wounds and FNP to 0.98 wounds. At the same time you're inflicting 0.58 wounds to yourself with overheats. I'd not call it effective.

Your answer is to either tarpit it with fearless cultists, kill with invisible murderpack or risk with Be'Lakor or Mace DP having dealt a few wounds beforehand with either shooting or psypowers.

But imo, you should be more afraid of scatbikers. Don't get me wrong, a WK is severely undercosted and cheezy but it's simply not so devastating as their infantry regarding damage output.

As usual, kaooooooi has it.

The WK is a fire trap - you'll fire everything at it and get nowhere. Much more important to prioritize the rest of the army that will, truth be told, be pushing your gak in with or without the WK. Because: Eldar.

Hence why I was looking for stuff that can threaten it at the same points cost.
A black mace prince costs slightly less, and if nurgle, stands a good chance of making it there and taking it out. and it doesn't impact your list a whole lot.

Throw in a that deimos laser destroyer, which will have a hard time not to make its points back I 'd say, and you should be good on the WK part. The Mace prince should be able to stand it's own against other WK answers from other armies too.

Crazy idea...
Mutilators. In a land raider.

lol

How about...

Ahriman...

In a dreadclaw

With oblitorators. .

Shriek and shoot that knight to death....

Captyn_Bob wrote:
How about...

Ahriman...

In a dreadclaw

With oblitorators. .

Shriek and shoot that knight to death....

I'd rather send Ahriman bolt-of-changing the damn bikes while obliterators are concentrating on another target. This way you'll have a way better effect rather than dealing a few wounds to a 300 pt model.