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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Turns out it isn't exactly "by law" required to maximize shareholder value.

Turns out it is "by threat of lawsuit from the shareholders" that drives the practice.

I looked into it, at the prompting of my sister, whose job it is is to defend a petrochemical company/corporation (two firms - same owners/bosses) from exactly those kinds of suits.

And, she said, "It isn't "the law" so much as it is "the rule" based upon threat of shareholder lawsuit against the corporation" (it is one means of staging a hostile takeover with no capital: we claim that the company OWES us, because it could have done x, y, & z that would create $nnn,nnn value that they owe us, and, yes, we will take stock).

So... I looked it up, and while it is not "statute law," it is WELL PRECEDENTED in case law.

In my own research into it, apparently it came about during the 1980s Greed Fest (Michael Douglas movie time) with Milton Friedman (the arch-Libertarian) claiming that if a Corporation did not maximize shareholder value, then the executives and board were "stealing from the shareholders" (why is it ALWAYS about "theft" or "stealing" with Libertarians???).

And, what do you know... Shareholders took him up on that and began to sue corporations freaking silly and sideways.

And then when the dot-com boom hit, the Libertarian Tendencies of the Silicon Valley crowd created the myth (which I fell for, seeing as I spent/spend too much time around that crowd) that it was "The Law."

Neil Stephenson apparently did not help by propagating the myth in two or three of his novels.

So... Pardon my mistake.

Otherwise... Even though it is not "The Law," it is still the predominantly driving behavior of Corporations whose shareholders tend to reinforce or buy into the myth,

MB
   
Made in us
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

So, like I said, not the law, just a good idea. Make money and don't feth up, because of you do you'll get your arse sued off!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Another point of order is just because you can sue doesn't mean your suit has merit. The shareholders would have to present sufficient evidence to convince a jury that the executives actually intended to bring the company down. Not an easy feat. Usually shareholder lawsuits revolve around compensation packages and mergers/acquisitions, not on incompetence.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Thunderfrog wrote:

On top of that, while the models are individually expensive, you need a lot less of them. The LVO winner list (IIRC) was around $800-$900 U.S. at MSRP, while the last major DZC tournament had the winner clocking in at around $300. I haven't priced PP armies recently, but last time I did a 3 list format army was around $700.


Thrift shopping on Bartertown and Ebay have landed me THREE 2500+ GW armies for less than that.


This is new and MSRP, if a player knows about those places and is willing to risk severe repair work (or removing thick layers of paint), or picking up an army that will no longer be supported (like chunks of the Fantasy line) I'd say go for it

Moreover, buying second hand means that GW is not selling a new player kit, which is what they want to do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/26 17:12:40


 
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

GW will never change in anyway we would want them to. GW dose no market research so even when we don't buy something they will not fix what is wrong with it, because they don't even know what was wrong with it in the 1st place.

Even not buying products from them you dislike won't realy have a effect.

If your frustrated with GW's polices you just need to change games sadly because nothing we do will change anything, unless something drastic happens at the top of the company.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/26 17:46:28


 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




Here is an overview from the Annual reports posted on another site.

GW's dividend history (in pence):

1998 - 9
1999 - 9.7
2000 - 9.9
2001 - 10.54
2002 - 13
2003 - 17
2004 - 18.75
2005 - 18.975
2006 - 18.975
2007 -
2008 - No dividends in this period
2009 -
2010 - 20
2011 - 45
2012 - 63
2013 - 58
2014 - 36

So out of their expansion from a UK based importer of games into a global miniature manufacturer and retailer in the 90s and into their height and the LOTR boom, we have steady dividend growth in keeping with the growth of the company.

Then the LOTR bubble popped and GW didn't know how to make things work with their decline in revenue. So they started slashing costs everywhere they could. From 2007 to 2009 the investment model of GW fundamentally changed. Prior to this they were a growth company that paid a small dividend and were interested in expanding their market to as many customers as possible.

Just look at the numbers from 1998-2006 and from 2010 to 2014. They look like the numbers from completely different companies. From 2007 to 2009 GW was transformed from a growth story into what Kirby calls an efficient cash machine.

What did Kirby say when the dividends returned?

"Dividends have returned. I am as pleased as you are. Does this herald in a new era of progressive dividends on an assured yield? Hardly. We return truly surplus cash to shareholders. 'Truly surplus' means the cash we can not use because we have already spent all we need for the growth of the business. It would sit in a bank account if we didn't return it. Working this way means the payment of dividends will be fairly happenstance; I can see us having surplus cash in the future and when we have (assuming it is a sensible sum) it will be returned, not according to a schedule, but right then and there." Kirby 2010-11 annual report

He wants the investors to believe that they actually could not think of anything to reinvest in. That they had spent all they could and just had so much surplus cash they just had to give it to the shareholders because there was nothing they could do with it.

Year - Earnings per share - dividends paid
2010 - 48.4 - 20
2011 - 36.1 - 45
2012 - 46.8 - 63
2013 - 51.5 - 58
2014 - 25.2 - 36

Does anyone actually believe that paying more in dividends than you are earning is sustainable? That doing so is just returning "truly surplus" cash that would just sit in the bank because there's nothing they can actually spend it on?

When the LOTR bubble popped and their sales of 40k and WFB fell over years that followed, GW stopped being profitable. They even propped up their last dividend of this period by borrowing money to pay it. At this point they changed their business model from one of growth to one of efficient cash extraction.

Given that GW is willing to pay all of their earnings (and more) as dividends and the 2nd half of 2014 saw the dividend reduced from 20p to 16p (totally 36p for 2014) we can assume that their earnings per share will be dropping by a similar amount. If they had the money rolling in during Q3 of 2014 they would have announced a larger dividend in October.

The machine isn't working. It's not growing because they are no longer investing in growth and on top of that they actually want to sell less product to fewer people at a higher price because it gives them a better margins and if they ship half the product at twice the price, they can lay off production, shipping and sales staff and save even more money. Switching their stores from fully staffed into single employee locations costs them sales but it also costs them recruitment. Which over time means their player base is shrinking. And those losses in volume compound over time and demand higher and higher prices to make up for it.

I hope that this information helpful to those wanting to invest in GW.
   
Made in us
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos






The OP and others assumes that all players are a "united front" with a shared of what the game and company should be.

If you spend more than five minutes on DaKka or in any game store gaming group you will know that that is far, far, far from reality.

Many gamers have horrible ideas about how things should be. Many would think my ideas are horrible.


In all honesty most of us couldn't do any Better GW is doing and probably would do worse.


As for the decline of GW: it isn't just due to GW "not doing it right". Tabletop wargaming is becoming sort of inevitably antiquarian due to the passage of time. Young kids more and more have other options and traditional wargamers more and more are sounding and looking like the out of touch old men who start everything they say with "back in my day..."

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/26 18:07:27


++ Death In The Dark++ A Zone Mortalis Hobby Project Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/663090.page#8712701
 
   
Made in us
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Except there is a variety of evidence suggesting that tabletop gaming of all varieties is growing, which really does suggest that GW could be doing it better and aren't doing it right.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except there is a variety of evidence suggesting that tabletop gaming of all varieties is growing, which really does suggest that GW could be doing it better and aren't doing it right.


I don't have any numbers about the hobby overall (and I don't think ANYONE has those) but we do have some indicators from conventions. Gencon for instance has been steadily growing and has pretty much always been the largest tabletop gaming con in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Con

I believe the Adepticon folks have said that they're steadily growing as well but a quick google search didn't bring up any numbers to verify that. Origins is growing as well (albeit at a smaller rate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_Game_Fair

Being a "nerd" is cool... for now... but GW doesn't seem to be capitalizing on that growing and/or returning fanbase but are instead cannibalizing their ever shrinking herd.
   
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Posts with Authority






 warboss wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Except there is a variety of evidence suggesting that tabletop gaming of all varieties is growing, which really does suggest that GW could be doing it better and aren't doing it right.


I don't have any numbers about the hobby overall (and I don't think ANYONE has those) but we do have some indicators from conventions. Gencon for instance has been steadily growing and has pretty much always been the largest tabletop gaming con in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Con

I believe the Adepticon folks have said that they're steadily growing as well but a quick google search didn't bring up any numbers to verify that. Origins is growing as well (albeit at a smaller rate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_Game_Fair

Being a "nerd" is cool... for now... but GW doesn't seem to be capitalizing on that growing and/or returning fanbase but are instead cannibalizing their ever shrinking herd.
Great... now you have put Lord of the Flies in my head....

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife




Leeds, Uk

Hey up guys was going to post this seperate but this thread seems to fit what you are talking about


I am Gamesworkshop! 
   
Made in gb
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus







Lanrak wrote:Here is an overview from the Annual reports posted on another site.
Spoiler:

GW's dividend history (in pence):

1998 - 9
1999 - 9.7
2000 - 9.9
2001 - 10.54
2002 - 13
2003 - 17
2004 - 18.75
2005 - 18.975
2006 - 18.975
2007 -
2008 - No dividends in this period
2009 -
2010 - 20
2011 - 45
2012 - 63
2013 - 58
2014 - 36

So out of their expansion from a UK based importer of games into a global miniature manufacturer and retailer in the 90s and into their height and the LOTR boom, we have steady dividend growth in keeping with the growth of the company.

Then the LOTR bubble popped and GW didn't know how to make things work with their decline in revenue. So they started slashing costs everywhere they could. From 2007 to 2009 the investment model of GW fundamentally changed. Prior to this they were a growth company that paid a small dividend and were interested in expanding their market to as many customers as possible.

Just look at the numbers from 1998-2006 and from 2010 to 2014. They look like the numbers from completely different companies. From 2007 to 2009 GW was transformed from a growth story into what Kirby calls an efficient cash machine.

What did Kirby say when the dividends returned?

"Dividends have returned. I am as pleased as you are. Does this herald in a new era of progressive dividends on an assured yield? Hardly. We return truly surplus cash to shareholders. 'Truly surplus' means the cash we can not use because we have already spent all we need for the growth of the business. It would sit in a bank account if we didn't return it. Working this way means the payment of dividends will be fairly happenstance; I can see us having surplus cash in the future and when we have (assuming it is a sensible sum) it will be returned, not according to a schedule, but right then and there." Kirby 2010-11 annual report

He wants the investors to believe that they actually could not think of anything to reinvest in. That they had spent all they could and just had so much surplus cash they just had to give it to the shareholders because there was nothing they could do with it.

Year - Earnings per share - dividends paid
2010 - 48.4 - 20
2011 - 36.1 - 45
2012 - 46.8 - 63
2013 - 51.5 - 58
2014 - 25.2 - 36

Does anyone actually believe that paying more in dividends than you are earning is sustainable? That doing so is just returning "truly surplus" cash that would just sit in the bank because there's nothing they can actually spend it on?

When the LOTR bubble popped and their sales of 40k and WFB fell over years that followed, GW stopped being profitable. They even propped up their last dividend of this period by borrowing money to pay it. At this point they changed their business model from one of growth to one of efficient cash extraction.

Given that GW is willing to pay all of their earnings (and more) as dividends and the 2nd half of 2014 saw the dividend reduced from 20p to 16p (totally 36p for 2014) we can assume that their earnings per share will be dropping by a similar amount. If they had the money rolling in during Q3 of 2014 they would have announced a larger dividend in October.

The machine isn't working. It's not growing because they are no longer investing in growth and on top of that they actually want to sell less product to fewer people at a higher price because it gives them a better margins and if they ship half the product at twice the price, they can lay off production, shipping and sales staff and save even more money. Switching their stores from fully staffed into single employee locations costs them sales but it also costs them recruitment. Which over time means their player base is shrinking. And those losses in volume compound over time and demand higher and higher prices to make up for it.

I hope that this information helpful to those wanting to invest in GW.

Indeed - good find and extremely ineresting reading!

CT GAMER wrote:The OP and others assumes that all players are a "united front" with a shared of what the game and company should be.

If you spend more than five minutes on DaKka or in any game store gaming group you will know that that is far, far, far from reality.

Many gamers have horrible ideas about how things should be. Many would think my ideas are horrible.
Spoiler:


In all honesty most of us couldn't do any Better GW is doing and probably would do worse.


As for the decline of GW: it isn't just due to GW "not doing it right". Tabletop wargaming is becoming sort of inevitably antiquarian due to the passage of time. Young kids more and more have other options and traditional wargamers more and more are sounding and looking like the out of touch old men who start everything they say with "back in my day..."



I have to concede that you absolutely right there, we're a fractious bunch at best. But i feel that i should add that we do tend to default to 'current' rulesets even if we don't like them just because they are 'official'
I beleive that we all would just accept a new rulebook as long as it was more complete than the last and written in consideration of all codexes, playtested properly and then released however GW feel is most profitable - just with the proper playtesting against all future codecies before the BRB release.

I would like them to clearly define an edition for use with each codex too!

Only problem i have is that these issues are adressed at a company management level, not at shareholder meetings so the limit of the scope of change which can be effected will be funding decisions for the different arms of the company, maybe some input on future sources of plastic or discussion about the viability of trying another 'finecast' attempt with some new, cheaper material.

You could probably seed some ideas to the management exec's after the presentation; like a crusade-era xenos/eldar little red book, or making the lucius pattern warhound in plastic since it's no longer produced in resin and doesn't appear in the horus heresy.


I'm determined not to get ideas about what we could achieve before i see how things are up in nottingham.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

 warboss wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
Except there is a variety of evidence suggesting that tabletop gaming of all varieties is growing, which really does suggest that GW could be doing it better and aren't doing it right.


I don't have any numbers about the hobby overall (and I don't think ANYONE has those) but we do have some indicators from conventions. Gencon for instance has been steadily growing and has pretty much always been the largest tabletop gaming con in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Con

I believe the Adepticon folks have said that they're steadily growing as well but a quick google search didn't bring up any numbers to verify that. Origins is growing as well (albeit at a smaller rate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_Game_Fair

Being a "nerd" is cool... for now... but GW doesn't seem to be capitalizing on that growing and/or returning fanbase but are instead cannibalizing their ever shrinking herd.



ICv2's data is unscientific but is a decent indicator of what is selling in stores; Kickstarter reports a huge amount of money pledged on tabletop wargaming as well.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

True.. while the quarterly results don't tell us anything about the overall health of the hobby, the subjective rankings do indicate that GW has gone down in popularity within their hobby niche (non-collectible minis) mainly due to the disappearance of fantasy completely from the list.

This article though does say that the hobby games market (not just minis but all games) is 2.25x larger than in 2008 and they have had 6 straight years of growth. You can generally see the OPPOSITE in the GW reports when you account for yearly price increases.

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30959/six-straight-growth-years-hobby-games
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Good luck with affecting change by buying some shares.


On the bright side, it wouldn't cost that much just to buy the whole company. Lots of people have $160 million dollars, give or take

If I were a multi-billionaire, I would buy Games Workshop, make it private, and just have them make cool models and a nice game, to hell with the profits. SISTERS OF BATTLE models, bwahahahaha.

And yes, even if I had a billion dollars of cash, I would still love wargaming and modelling. I'd have like, 10,000 sq ft of a home dedicated to it and hire people to dust off my models and gaming tables

Wraithknight > Ferrari.
   
Made in gb
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus







I love the mechanicum (Ordo Reductor FTW! MOAR THALLAX!) but Nissan GT-R>Mechanicum^£100000

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

I just saw this article about an industry-leading company that kept doing the same old thing rather than looking into the innovations that consumers were interested in. Turns out it wasn't a good idea. Who'd'a thunk it?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/27 00:21:19


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Vermis wrote:
I just saw this article about an industry-leading company that kept doing the same old thing rather than looking into the innovations that consumers were interested in. Turns out it wasn't a good idea. Who'd'a thunk it?


Kodak is another. They invented the first digital camera but shelved it because it could ruin their photo film business...so someone else did the job for them. Gw's stance on 3D printing is scarily similar.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Azreal13 wrote:
So, like I said, not the law, just a good idea. Make money and don't feth up, because of you do you'll get your arse sued off!


As I pointed out, this attitude tends to promote pathologies in Corporate Behavior based upon Toatlitarian Utilitarian Philosophies that prioritize Short-term gains over the longer term.

The AI researcher Steve Omohundro (he was one of the team with Danny Hillis, and Richard Feynman who built the Connection Machine back in the 80's/90's - a computer FAR ahead of its time. In fact, we are just now beginning to apply its architecture to chips) wrote a paper titled Basic AI Drives which detail variations in different sorts of Agent Systems.

One such System is that used by Corporations: The Rational Economic Agent (REA).

An REA operates by basic rules, which prioritize behaviors based upon rewards from a Utility function.

If a Corporation or REA is not careful in how they word this Utility Function, then the REA/Corporatin can wind up showing AWESOME GAINS for a short period of time, only to wind up consuming not just itself, but everything else around it as well.

This is similar to the Apprentice in Goethe's The Sorcerer's Apprentice, as depicted by Mickey Mouse in the movie Fantasia.

Mickey is ordered to fill a basin in the Sorcerer's Castle. He trudges up and down a LOONG flight of stairs, carrying heavy buckets of water, while the Sorcerer literally moves the stars at his command.

When the Sorcerer goes out, Mickey uses his Spell book to animate a broomstick with the command: Carry water from the well to that basin.

The broomstick complies, all too well, rapidly filling the basin.

Mickey drops off into dreams of his new power, only to be wakened by the flooding of the castle, and the inability to stop the broomstick (his attempts only make things worse) as the broomstick(s) threaten to drown him in their single minded pursuit of their IMMEDIATE GOAL.

This is the perfect metaphor for Corporations prioritizing short-term over long-term profits.

It leads to unintended consequences, often poorly, or even dangerously, considered to begin with.

Obviously a Corporation needs to make enough money to operate. But shareholders clammoring for profits NOW!!! will destroy a corporation (and possibly the economy along with it, if the corporation is a major component in the Systems' Economy) without consideration for the longer term.

And GW is a perfect example of such short-term goal thinking (They are by no means the worst, though).

So... Even though it is not a legal mandate does in no way imply that it must be a good idea, nor should it be thought of us such.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vermis wrote:
I just saw this article about an industry-leading company that kept doing the same old thing rather than looking into the innovations that consumers were interested in. Turns out it wasn't a good idea. Who'd'a thunk it?


And thus my point about the behavior and consequences of Rational Economic Agents with poorly conceived goals and plans.

MB


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 warboss wrote:
 Vermis wrote:
I just saw this article about an industry-leading company that kept doing the same old thing rather than looking into the innovations that consumers were interested in. Turns out it wasn't a good idea. Who'd'a thunk it?


Kodak is another. They invented the first digital camera but shelved it because it could ruin their photo film business...so someone else did the job for them. Gw's stance on 3D printing is scarily similar.


Yep!

MB

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/27 04:45:52


 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Talys wrote:
If I were a multi-billionaire, I would buy Games Workshop, make it private, and just have them make cool models and a nice game, to hell with the profits. SISTERS OF BATTLE models, bwahahahaha.
.


I think this would be the best possible outcome.

The company still has to make profits, but it would be nice if their was some acknowledgement that some people want to play and enjoy the games as well.

SirDonlad wrote:I love the mechanicum (Ordo Reductor FTW! MOAR THALLAX!) but Nissan GT-R>Mechanicum^£100000


The sad thing is that you can't have both of these things, that the price of the latter doesn't have to be measured up against a new purchase of a car.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/27 07:11:40


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@warboss.
A better comparison with Kodak and GW would be GW specialist games.
This range of games made getting into GW games very easy and appealed to a wider range of players.
And the 40k and WHFB players could try out different game sizes in the same GW setting.

If a WHFB player wanted to try a skirmish game there was Mordhiem.
If a WHFB player wanted to try a sports game there was Blood Bowl.
If a WHFB player wanted a dungeon crawler game there was Warhammer Quest/Hero Quest.
If a WHFB player wanted a bigger battle game there was Warmaster.

40k players had Inquisitor RPG, Necromundia skirmish , Kill team /40k in 40 mins ,standard 40k Epic , and B.F.G.

Rather than see these other games as gateway games to WHFB and 40k, and customer retention games.
The bean counters at GW towers just saw the lower profits they made in compared to WHFB and 40k lines.
(Even though some sales of 40k and WHFB kits were for use in some specialist games!)

So like Kodak blindly thinking their customers would not go elsewhere for this other product, GW axed all the Specialist games.

And all these smaller companies made games to replace them, and did very well thank you very much.

Which is great if you are a gamer that is happy to buy from other companies.
But it is not so great for GW plc , fewer customers lower sales volumes and lower profits.

I know GW plc loss of profits has been expected for the last 10 years or so.But fanatical support of GW plc by some is just astounding, and has delayed the tipping point well past expectations.

GW plc are now on a downward trend.
They have cut costs to the bone, no more savings to be had without reducing efficiency and sales.(Some say they have already gone too far.)
They have raised prices past the tipping point , so the fall in sales volumes can not be covered by increasing prices any more.
They have paid for share dividends with money that should have been spent on growing their market share.

The only option they have is to cycle through releases faster and faster hoping for short term (very short term) sales spikes to squeeze as much money out of their remaining customer base as possible to keep the 'Kirby cash machine' operating.Just enough money to pay good dividends so Tom Kirby gets a few extra £M before he uses his 'golden parachute'.










This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/27 09:41:23


 
   
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus







Lanrak wrote:

GW plc are now on a downward trend.
They have cut costs to the bone, no more savings to be had without reducing efficiency and sales.(Some say they have already gone too far.)
They have raised prices past the tipping point , so the fall in sales volumes can not be covered by increasing prices any more.
They have paid for share dividends with money that should have been spent on growing their market share.

The only option they have is to cycle through releases faster and faster hoping for short term (very short term) sales spikes to squeeze as much money out of their remaining customer base as possible to keep the 'Kirby cash machine' operating.Just enough money to pay good dividends so Tom Kirby gets a few extra £M before he uses his 'golden parachute'.




I think it's even worse than that - every time they borrow money to pay dividends they are taking it directly out of the next year's profits - how many years could that happen before the debt became too much for the company to deal with?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..  
   
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Runnin up on ya.

 SirDonlad wrote:
Lanrak wrote:

GW plc are now on a downward trend.
They have cut costs to the bone, no more savings to be had without reducing efficiency and sales.(Some say they have already gone too far.)
They have raised prices past the tipping point , so the fall in sales volumes can not be covered by increasing prices any more.
They have paid for share dividends with money that should have been spent on growing their market share.

The only option they have is to cycle through releases faster and faster hoping for short term (very short term) sales spikes to squeeze as much money out of their remaining customer base as possible to keep the 'Kirby cash machine' operating.Just enough money to pay good dividends so Tom Kirby gets a few extra £M before he uses his 'golden parachute'.




I think it's even worse than that - every time they borrow money to pay dividends they are taking it directly out of the next year's profits - how many years could that happen before the debt became too much for the company to deal with?


I don't know that they're borrowing money, they still have a cash reserve and the financials don't show debt service. There was a fair amount of debt about 5 or 6 years ago but it's been paid off.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The new Assault Squad is not only AUD$15 more expensive than the last Assault Squad (with no discernible difference beyond poses), it's more expensive than the far more fancy Vanguard box.

AUD$70 for 5 models that used to cost $55 (and were less than that when they first came out). People were shocked at the cost of 10 Witch Elves. This, and the Electro-Priests before them, is worse.

GW is changing... by making things worse.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/28 03:10:11


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
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GW plc is still charging remaining customers their 'incompetent management ' tax.

The fact GW plc is following this idiocy to its depressing conclusion is not change.

A well run company would be making significantly more profit off products at HALF the RRP GW plc charge. (Many actually do!)

GW plc will only change after Kirby has squeezed enough cash out of GW and retires as chairman.(Probably about 6 months before GW plc goes into a terminal nose dive.)

Although GW plc has borrowed money to pay dividends before,ATM they are just chewing through their dwindling cash surplus.I am sure Kirby will probably borrow money to pay the last lot of dividends before he retires if needed though.


   
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Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new Assault Squad is not only AUD$15 more expensive than the last Assault Squad (with no discernible difference beyond poses), it's more expensive than the far more fancy Vanguard box.

AUD$70 for 5 models that used to cost $55 (and were less than that when they first came out). People were shocked at the cost of 10 Witch Elves. This, and the Electro-Priests before them, is worse.

GW is changing... by making things worse.




My favorite part of all of that is watching people who seem to have infinite hobby budgets being nonplussed by the price increases and then wondering why the rest of the plebs are complaining. Or, even worse, saying that 40k is a luxury hobby that isn't for everyone, conveniently forgetting everything about the game previous to 6th edition.

I've always wondered if 40k would be reduced to a collection of rich players who submit yearly $1millon checks, fly to Nottingham and have an annual Apocalypse game. Truly a bright future ahead for them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/28 12:02:26


 
   
Made in us
Wraith






The very best part is that GW is in a perfect position to still shutdown the market if they chose. They aren't constrained by the production limitations of other companies as they can do full production, save printing, in hous. All things considered, because of this, their miniatures should be the cheapest not the most expensive.

Given their deep range of flexible model kits, they'd really just need to open conversation (good with the flood of bad pent up) with folks, see what's selling in the competition, and use their remaining clout/weight to hire premiere rules writers and remake their side games while completely gutting their main ones from the horrible mess they are in.

The reason why GW gets so much disdain it's rationally justifiable from anyone who isn't emotionally attached, blinded by their rose colored FineGlasses. If more folks put aside their cherished love for the setting and realize how bad GW really is, then they'd hopefully change or at least bottom out sooner so we have a chance of rebuilding with new management.

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Norn Iron

 TheKbob wrote:

The reason why GW gets so much disdain it's rationally justifiable from anyone who isn't emotionally attached, blinded by their rose colored FineGlasses. If more folks put aside their cherished love for the setting and realize how bad GW really is, then they'd hopefully change or at least bottom out sooner so we have a chance of rebuilding with new management.


I think the first emphasised part is the reason for the disdain, and the second emphasised part explains it. I'd say, from previous experience, the people who complain still like the setting (older parts of it, at least), but realise that the setting is a discrete entity from the (overpriced) models and the (terrible) rules. It's harder to explore the setting, in wargame form, given those two factors, and the great frustration is that - as you say, Kbob - it really shouldn't be the case.

Me, I still have attachment to the setting. At the mo I'm starting to explore it again using Troublemaker and Onslaught 6mm minis, and Epic: Armageddon. Overall quite a bit less money-grubbing and aggro.

I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
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Runnin up on ya.

 TheKbob wrote:
The very best part is that GW is in a perfect position to still shutdown the market if they chose. They aren't constrained by the production limitations of other companies as they can do full production, save printing, in hous. All things considered, because of this, their miniatures should be the cheapest not the most expensive.

Given their deep range of flexible model kits, they'd really just need to open conversation (good with the flood of bad pent up) with folks, see what's selling in the competition, and use their remaining clout/weight to hire premiere rules writers and remake their side games while completely gutting their main ones from the horrible mess they are in.

The reason why GW gets so much disdain it's rationally justifiable from anyone who isn't emotionally attached, blinded by their rose colored FineGlasses. If more folks put aside their cherished love for the setting and realize how bad GW really is, then they'd hopefully change or at least bottom out sooner so we have a chance of rebuilding with new management.



I think the thing that boggles my mind is that people will adamantly refuse to look at facts and just wave away any commentary on GW's financials as "hate." I don't hate a company that is spending more money than they take in, just to fund dividends to investors, I question the sanity of the executives who decide to do that but I don't hate them.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new Assault Squad is not only AUD$15 more expensive than the last Assault Squad (with no discernible difference beyond poses), it's more expensive than the far more fancy Vanguard box.

AUD$70 for 5 models that used to cost $55 (and were less than that when they first came out). People were shocked at the cost of 10 Witch Elves. This, and the Electro-Priests before them, is worse.

GW is changing... by making things worse.




I find the fact that new kits are always priced higher with very little or no changes to be mind-boggling. What justification is there for a price increase on this kit? It's still 5 guys. Why is it more expensive? Currently it's $33 USD for 5 Assault Marines (sold out, of course). What makes these new ones cost $8 more? That means a full assault squad (because really who is going to field just 5 of them?) is going to cost $82 for 10 models in plastic.

Why do people still put up with this bullgak? You're paying more money for the same gak, using molds that have likely already paid for themselves. The markup on this has to be huge.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/28 17:45:00


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Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
 
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