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 Talys wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
But this isn't a Dark Angels release, this is a new Space Marine codex, right? Remember, Dark Angels are not Space Marines, they are a completely unique and separate army from Space Marines, with their own models, rules, and organization. That's the entire reason why they got their own book and why DA players scream bloody murder every time someone even suggests that all the Marine chapters could be represented in a single book.

I know some people who play their DA (or BA) models as regular space marines, and just call them something else. Obviously, without the faction-specific stuff like ravenwing command or sanguinary guard, or the faction-specific loadouts (like trimelta ASM). Some peeps just like the models and bits you can get

I'm one of them. I love the winged icon of Emperor's Children and Ravenwing. Use them as Astral Claws and only just now decided to de-Dark Angel some other models for it. I'm actually really worried what's going to become of my Astral Claws when the new codex drops. There is the chance that Forge World units will be invalidated like the Iyanden Supplement was with new Eldar. So Minotaur Characters, Severin Loth, my own Lugft Huron, they might all be at risk...

I wonder if Natfka is moving to labelling sources...

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
But this isn't a Dark Angels release, this is a new Space Marine codex, right? Remember, Dark Angels are not Space Marines, they are a completely unique and separate army from Space Marines, with their own models, rules, and organization. That's the entire reason why they got their own book and why DA players scream bloody murder every time someone even suggests that all the Marine chapters could be represented in a single book.

I know some people who play their DA (or BA) models as regular space marines, and just call them something else. Obviously, without the faction-specific stuff like ravenwing command or sanguinary guard, or the faction-specific loadouts (like trimelta ASM). Some peeps just like the models and bits you can get

I'm one of them. I love the winged icon of Emperor's Children and Ravenwing. Use them as Astral Claws and only just now decided to de-Dark Angel some other models for it. I'm actually really worried what's going to become of my Astral Claws when the new codex drops. There is the chance that Forge World units will be invalidated like the Iyanden Supplement was with new Eldar. So Minotaur Characters, Severin Loth, my own Lugft Huron, they might all be at risk...

Forge World is not the same as the Iyanden supplement.

You might have to wait awhile for a PDF and then an updated book, but they don't generally just drop things.

 Davylove21 wrote:
I don't know why they don't offer a codex subscription at this point. I bet they'd make more money from a £100 per year and get every codex delivered deal AND turn 'my codex went invalid!' into 'yay my codex is great value!' in one fell swoop.

Almost seems too easy.

Wasn't there a rumour of a new assault marine kit? A new LR variant would be awesome, though.

You do realize that if GW starts to sell a year Codex subscription and people start to fork out +$100 a year for it then GW will stop making new codexs. They wont need a reason to make new or improve them since they are getting the money already. GW is out to make money no matter how they do it. They don't care if people get upset, new kids will join their cult. I've had a love'/hate relationship with GW for 30 years now. I own 4-5 copies of Fantasy rules (I stopped after the 6th) and own 4+ copies of 40k. I love the 40k background and lore but hate the rules and the way GW runs their company. The Horus books brought me back into the 40k games and I hate them for it.

Wouldn't this conflict with the Summer campaign box too?

Boredflak1066 wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
I don't know why they don't offer a codex subscription at this point. I bet they'd make more money from a £100 per year and get every codex delivered deal AND turn 'my codex went invalid!' into 'yay my codex is great value!' in one fell swoop.

Almost seems too easy.

Wasn't there a rumour of a new assault marine kit? A new LR variant would be awesome, though.

You do realize that if GW starts to sell a year Codex subscription and people start to fork out +$100 a year for it then GW will stop making new codexs. They wont need a reason to make new or improve them since they are getting the money already. GW is out to make money no matter how they do it. They don't care if people get upset, new kids will join their cult. I've had a love'/hate relationship with GW for 30 years now. I own 4-5 copies of Fantasy rules (I stopped after the 6th) and own 4+ copies of 40k. I love the 40k background and lore but hate the rules and the way GW runs their company. The Horus books brought me back into the 40k games and I hate them for it.

I don't realise it, no.

 Davylove21 wrote:

Boredflak1066 wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
I don't know why they don't offer a codex subscription at this point. I bet they'd make more money from a £100 per year and get every codex delivered deal AND turn 'my codex went invalid!' into 'yay my codex is great value!' in one fell swoop.

Almost seems too easy.

Wasn't there a rumour of a new assault marine kit? A new LR variant would be awesome, though.

You do realize that if GW starts to sell a year Codex subscription and people start to fork out +$100 a year for it then GW will stop making new codexs. They wont need a reason to make new or improve them since they are getting the money already. GW is out to make money no matter how they do it. They don't care if people get upset, new kids will join their cult. I've had a love'/hate relationship with GW for 30 years now. I own 4-5 copies of Fantasy rules (I stopped after the 6th) and own 4+ copies of 40k. I love the 40k background and lore but hate the rules and the way GW runs their company. The Horus books brought me back into the 40k games and I hate them for it.

I don't realise it, no.

Not to mention, new kids aren't really joining there cult currently. There kinda losing a boatload of money apparently. hell, reddit has a betting pool going on about how long GW will last.

Is Forge World and Black Library different companies than GW? Can GW fail if FW and BL are making money? I would like to see GW fail but I would hate not to see the end of the Horus novels. Even though I already know the final ending, the Big E dies.

Sorry for the lack of a spoiler alert.

Boredflak1066 wrote:
Is Forge World and Black Library different companies than GW? Can GW fail if FW and BL are making money? I would like to see GW fail but I would hate not to see the end of the Horus novels. Even though I already know the final ending, the Big E dies.

Sorry for the lack of a spoiler alert.

Forgeworld and Black Library are just different branches of GW. They're all one company even if they don't talk to each other quite as much as they should.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Wouldn't this conflict with the Summer campaign box too?

There's new releases literally every week. I don't think anything can conflict with anything at this point.

Strength D Lascannons wouldn't shock me...

 Alpharius wrote:
Strength D Lascannons wouldn't shock me...

Don't think Lascannons is going to become strenght D. But if I am going too put my money on something in the Space Marine arsenal getting buffed to Strength D it would be the Demolisher cannon on the Vindicator.
After all, it's S 10 AP 2 range 24" already and only on one has it. Lascannons can be taken by over 10 different units.

 Alpharius wrote:
Strength D Lascannons wouldn't shock me...

It would shock me.

We've got a Knight book coming out on Saturday that has no ranged D weaponry, which would have been the perfect place to put it.

Eldar seem to be the outlier rather than the standard.


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WindsOfFury wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Strength D Lascannons wouldn't shock me...

Don't think Lascannons is going to become strenght D. But if I am going too put my money on something in the Space Marine arsenal getting buffed to Strength D it would be the Demolisher cannon on the Vindicator.
After all, it's S 10 AP 2 range 24" already and only on one has it. Lascannons can be taken by over 10 different units.

If the Demolisher Cannon gets buffed to Strength D in Marines, they damn well better FAQ it quickly for the Guard.

Squadrons of Demolishers running around with Strength D. Mwhahahahaha.

No, they wouldn't necessarily need to, much like the bolters the imperial guard have are not necessarily astartes bolters. This of course is from non-cannonical FFG games, but still.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
No, they wouldn't necessarily need to, much like the bolters the imperial guard have are not necessarily astartes bolters. This of course is from non-cannonical FFG games, but still.

Actually yeah, they would. The bolters carried by Guard officers/sergeants are scaled down but effectively still the same weapon. The major differences that they would have are the handling, overall ROF, ammunition capacities, etc etc--which aren't really something easily represented on the tabletop.

A Demolisher Cannon is the same thing, no matter what. The Baneblade and Hellhammer have one in their hull mounts, the Demolisher features it as its turret mount, the Vindicator has one, and the Thunderer has one as well.

So if they give Vindicators Strength D on account of their Demolisher Cannons? That affects a whole lot of vehicles across the board.

Or they just call them Omega pattern Demolisher cannons, or give them Wicked Radical Awesome Tempest Hammer Ammo that other Demolisher cannons don't have access to (for now).

As an Iron Hands lover, I'm stoked for squadron predators

Two new vehicle variants on the Rhino and Land Raider hulls doesn't really make me that excited. At this point I'm a bit perplexed what they'd actually do with it, especially considering that it'll be hard to shoehorn in something with all the gaps that FW has filled (especially for Land Raiders).

Also not really impressed- or even interested, in fact- in Predator/Vindicator squadrons. Whirlwinds? Totally down with it. Preds/Vindis? Not so much; the Predator and Vindicator chassis suffer more from not having proper battle-tank equivalent armor than anything else... well, barring the lackluster primary weapon options of the Predator.

I'd much rather see Preds/Vindis become AV12 sides, with a buff to the Predator's turret weapons (maybe Tank Hunter rule for just the turret gun or access to PotMS?), and Razorbacks be made AV12 front with slightly cheaper weapon options.

Then they wouldn't be so horrifically bad that FW is near-required to patch in for the horrible SM armor options. Whirlwinds are the only thing that's "decent", and for moderate investment you can get a near-straight upgrade in the Thunderfire Cannon.

From the rumors, Whiskey, it seems like they're doing some kind of "Command" variant.

Personally? I think that means the Damocles Rhino and Prometheus Land Raider--or something akin to them.

The issue is that GW generally prefers to make up new things that do a similar job to the FW variants that are already extant... or just make up something else entirely.

As an example, FW produced the SM Whirlwind Hyperios and Land Raider Helios models, which were not incorporated into the codex proper and instead were supplemented with the Hunter (an oldie-but-goldie from the Epic 40K/Epic Armageddon eras, as I understand) and the Stalker.

Ironically, both the Hunter and Stalker are far and away better than the Hyperios.

Personally, I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to figure out what kind of "command" bonuses they'd try to stick onto a Rhino/Land Raider that doesn't make it seem like "FW only GeeDubs", a la the Stalker, for example (Hunters predated the Hyperios, while AFAIK the Stalker is basically a SM Hydra).

The last time that GW incorporated straight FW units into an GW-labeled publication was the 5th-edition Guard, with the Valkyrie, Hydra, and several LR variants. Since then they've done nothing of the sort, and have in several books actually removed options /raging about DE special character losses.

Whiskey144 wrote:
The issue is that GW generally prefers to make up new things that do a similar job to the FW variants that are already extant... or just make up something else entirely.

As an example, FW produced the SM Whirlwind Hyperios and Land Raider Helios models, which were not incorporated into the codex proper and instead were supplemented with the Hunter (an oldie-but-goldie from the Epic 40K/Epic Armageddon eras, as I understand) and the Stalker.

Ironically, both the Hunter and Stalker are far and away better than the Hyperios.

Personally, I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to figure out what kind of "command" bonuses they'd try to stick onto a Rhino/Land Raider that doesn't make it seem like "FW only GeeDubs", a la the Stalker, for example (Hunters predated the Hyperios, while AFAIK the Stalker is basically a SM Hydra).

The last time that GW incorporated straight FW units into an GW-labeled publication was the 5th-edition Guard, with the Valkyrie, Hydra, and several LR variants. Since then they've done nothing of the sort, and have in several books actually removed options /raging about DE special character losses.

Well the Stompa got included in the Orks book, and if I recall, the only profile it had prior were some Forgeworld ones.

What I really look forward too see how they go about formations i SM. It would be really nice to be able to make specialized army builds. As it is the Combined arms detachment is almost formed around a SM battle company (6 tactical, 2 assault, 2 devestator, 2-3 dreadnoughts. Would be really nice to get a 1-st company formation option close to the apocalypse one, some 10-th company as well, armoury, chapter HQ, armoury etc.
I like fluff, fluff is fun.

I wonder if they'll have a different base formation for each chapter. Could see them going away with chapter tactics maybe and incorporating them into bonuses for the base formation/decursion

jSewell wrote:
As an Iron Hands lover, I'm stoked for squadron predators

And why's that?, you will loose your IH supplement just like Iyanden went into the sewers once the new Eldar dex came out.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

jSewell wrote:
As an Iron Hands lover, I'm stoked for squadron predators

And why's that?, you will loose your IH supplement just like Iyanden went into the sewers once the new Eldar dex came out.

Still have chapter tactics without the supplement and being able to take more than one armor piece per heavy support slot will benefit them a lot (assuming the chapter tactics for IH don't get destroyed or something)

jSewell wrote:
I wonder if they'll have a different base formation for each chapter. Could see them going away with chapter tactics maybe and incorporating them into bonuses for the base formation/decursion

Man, I hope you're not right about that one! The strength of SM to me has always been the large number of viable builds - not often OP but always fun and mostly competative. This would be nothing but a sweet memory if they made chapter specific formations instead of chapter tactics.

Who else besides Calgar do you think will become a LoW? Lysander? Will we get a big beastie?

Base on finance and profit reasons, GW will most likely boost models that are currently weak and undersold.

1. Landraiders: Not sure how are they gonna make them competitive again... mech is not very strong in 7ed, especially now with all these S-D and -1D weapons that can wipe out expensive vehicles in one turn.

2. Rhinos: Same crap as LRs... no one wants to buy them unless GW can boost Mech survivability in 7ed.

3. Terminators: Maybe give them 2 wounds, FNP and/or new range weapon upgrades that has flesh bane or whatever. Whatever GW do they need to be a viable deathstar again and maybe that'll also indirectly promote players to purchase Landraiders and storm ravens.


4. Techmarines: Give them some kind of ability to make SM mech more viable for competitive play again...

5. Dreadnoughts: ???

jSewell wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

jSewell wrote:
As an Iron Hands lover, I'm stoked for squadron predators

And why's that?, you will loose your IH supplement just like Iyanden went into the sewers once the new Eldar dex came out.

Still have chapter tactics without the supplement and being able to take more than one armor piece per heavy support slot will benefit them a lot (assuming the chapter tactics for IH don't get destroyed or something)

Why assume you will have chapter tactics? You'll lose chapter tactics and probably gain some "decurion" nonsense.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Base on finance and profit reasons, GW will most likely boost models that are currently weak and undersold.

1. Landraiders: Not sure how are they gonna make them competitive again... mech is not very strong in 7ed, especially now with all these S-D and -1D weapons that can wipe out expensive vehicles in one turn.

2. Rhinos: Same crap as LRs... no one wants to buy them unless GW can boost Mech survivability in 7ed.

Mech is much better in 7e than it was in 6e. "All these S-D weapons", which ones exactly? The ones present in a single codex? How many factions are even in 40k now?

 Bonesnapper wrote:

jSewell wrote:
I wonder if they'll have a different base formation for each chapter. Could see them going away with chapter tactics maybe and incorporating them into bonuses for the base formation/decursion

Man, I hope you're not right about that one! The strength of SM to me has always been the large number of viable builds - not often OP but always fun and mostly competative. This would be nothing but a sweet memory if they made chapter specific formations instead of chapter tactics.

Who else besides Calgar do you think will become a LoW? Lysander? Will we get a big beastie?

Helbrecht, Pedro Kantor, and (possibly) generic Chapter Masters. the LoW slots in SW and BA were chapter masters. Gabriel Seth is a 165 pt Lord of War. Lysander, beatstick though he may be, is just a lowly 1st captain.

Personally I think nothing new is going to come out. They'll change a bunch of stuff, add a Decurion, and otherwise find ways to get you to buy more of the toys you thought you already had enough of.

I just hope they keep something resembling chapter tactics.

MarsNZ wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Base on finance and profit reasons, GW will most likely boost models that are currently weak and undersold.

1. Landraiders: Not sure how are they gonna make them competitive again... mech is not very strong in 7ed, especially now with all these S-D and -1D weapons that can wipe out expensive vehicles in one turn.

2. Rhinos: Same crap as LRs... no one wants to buy them unless GW can boost Mech survivability in 7ed.

Mech is much better in 7e than it was in 6e. "All these S-D weapons", which ones exactly? The ones present in a single codex? How many factions are even in 40k now?

I took a hiatus skipped 6e. With that said, does it even matter if 7e mech is better than 6e? It is still pretty bad in the "current" top meta and thats all it matters. The only true or semi-true mech list that was highly competitive was the 6e Wave serpent spam. Even the top Tau lists contain min Vehicles(Skyray for marker lights)... When was the last time anyone seen spams of Rhino/razorback, chimeras, Leman Russ, devilfishes, Land raiders, any type of walkers and etc in the top tournament lists?

Maybe I phrased it badly about the S-D weapons... more like the additions of these new S-D weapons on top of the many already existing anti-mech capabilities in 7ed. Yes there are many factions in 40k, but "competitive" players takes the best ones that will give them the best chance to win.


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Ok maybe also Ad Lance is still pretty good/scary if you want to consider that "mech"