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 sonofruss wrote:
Forge World says the Minotaur's are descended from the Iron Hands. and the loyalist from the fallen Legions ether repainted their armor back to pre-founding colors joined the soon to be Grey Knights (ones with a Psy ability) or where folded in to loyalist chapters.

Some old fluff had some of the creations from the Cursed Founding (M35) made from Genestock of Traitor Legions.

Sons of Antaeus were from Death Guard. Minotaurs were from World Eater stock. etc.. Fluff got retconned quickly. It probably was a one-off idea to play loyalists with the old Legion rules.

When Forgeworld re-did Minotaurs, they added that the loony Minotaurs known for being unstable and blood thirsty to the extreme went missing/were "disappeared" in M38. Than in the 41st Millenium they suddenly reappear, but show none (or few) of the crazy Berserker-traits they used to have.

So plenty of grey areas that even if you subscribe to the (since retconned) Minotaurs-from-World-Eaters-cursed-founding theory, it would seem most likely, that the Berserker-Minotaurs were removed by the Inquisition and replaced by a "new" Minotaurs Chapter from different gene-stock (unless, of course, you want your Minotaurs to be loyalst World Eaters).



Either way, what the Cursed Founding allegeldy did was not simply to create successor chapters of the Traitor Legions, but to "fix" what was wrong with their genestock (as they did trying to "fix" the flaw in Blood Angels) and/or splice geneseed from different Legions. So even if they come (partly) from World Eaters, there'd still a lot of Inquisitorial tampering that sets them apart from "straight" World Eaters.

 Kirasu wrote:
It's why I don't get why so many complain about wraithlords when its actually weaker than AV12. The main issue is the lack of armor saves for vehicles and "instant death" from a single pen.

Answered your own question right there. High strength weapons with good AP are expensive; yes your wraithlord is slightly more likely to be dealt a wound by it, but all you ever lose is one wound, and those weapons usually aren't present in large numbers. Meanwhile one penetrating hit will shake/stun/immobilize/damage/outright destroy a vehicle.

On the other end of the scale, medium strength weapons with poor/no AP are cheaper and usually have a higher rate of fire, so T6-8 MCs survive by their armor save, while AV10-12 vehicles simply get glanced to death.

Also, let's back up. The wraithlord is T8, right? That's identical to AV12 except in the case of S5 weapons, where T8 can be wounded on a 6+ and AV12 can't be touched. However, the wraithlord has an armor save that the majority of S5 weapons won't ignore, making wounds from S5 weapons rare. The wraithlord's 3+ save will block 2/3 of those S5 shots, and 2/3 of shots from any medium/high strength weapons with poor AP that would otherwise glance or pen AV12 (autocannons, manticores, etc). So in general, a T8 3+ save wraithlord is definitely tougher than an AV12 vehicle, not weaker. The tiny amount of wounds you can expect from heavy bolters and their ilk is more than outweighed by the wraithlord's armor save against other weapons.

(That being said, I'm in total agreement that T7 3+ save is probably too weak as a replacement for AV12 - in the dreadnought example, I'd rather see T8 3/3/4+ and a slight points increase if necessary)

new tanks

http://warhammerworld.games-workshop.com/2015/05/13/new-warhammer-world-exclusives/


.. warhammer world exclusives..?

Those look really cool!

Odd that they're Warhammer World exclusive, though...

I really can't decide if these are the silliest or most awesome looking AFVs GW have yet released.

I doubt they'll be permanent WHW exclusives, but timed absolutely.

GW still thinks in terms of UK first, the rest of the world "meh" so it makes perfect sense to them.

I wonder if we'll ever see regular GW Store exclusives.

They are... very blue. Like, even bluer than most 'Eavy Metal UM stuff...

Kind of disappointed, actually. I was hoping for more bling, less shrine-glued-on-top. Something more like the decorative side plates from Scibor.

Looks good, better than the old sprue for sure

I'd speculate they're not WHW exclusives so much as the image is lifted from some of the promo material accompanying the re-opening.

Still, can't ever have enough Rhinos and Land Raiders can we?

Eh, at least these seem to be a bit less redundant than the centurions...

Why would GW limit new space marine vehicles to an event? Yeah, sure, they might get in another 100-200 guys who otherwise wouldn't have come. So, the select few who 1. didn't want to come in the first place 2. play space marines (and ultras in particular as some of the bling seems to be modelled on) 3. like the new models and 4. have enough spare dough to actually buy the tickets and the models they want. That's what? another 1000 GBP for the event revenue.

Now compare that to making that stuff available through the webshop. I assume they'd make that money in a day for months to come.

My bet: after the event they'll post something along the lines of "due to the *surprising* demand for the command tanks at our great event we have decided to share the love with all of you and will make them available permanently/for another 27 months through the webshop"

So Gravcannon & Gravamp on vehicles and pintlemounted TL plasmagun? Wonder how widely avaliabe these will be in the new dex.

nudibranch wrote:
They are... very blue. Like, even bluer than most 'Eavy Metal UM stuff...

Go to the actual source, they're not even remotely as blue - dunno what happened to the picture in here, but it's an entirely different blue. Actual image

The newsletter the image is from does seem to indicate it is only available at WW.

Well that sucks...

I dont usually bitch about GWs buisiness ideas but man, thats just plain stupid.

I doubt they're plastic. Probably Forge World add-ons for the opening.

Wonderwolf wrote:
I doubt they're plastic. Probably Forge World add-ons for the opening.

Both the way it's designed, the aesthetic and the fact it's painted by 'Eavy Metal suggests it's plastic. This wouldn't be the first time GW's released a limited edition plastic kit, like that void shield generator.

*Edit* Also if you look closely you can see some of the joins like on the grav-cannon barrel.

Games Workshop is a strange company.

"Let's make some new products, but make it effectively impossible for almost all of our customers to purchase it even if they wanted to! It's genius! Our revenues will skyrocket!"

nudibranch wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:
I doubt they're plastic. Probably Forge World add-ons for the opening.

Both the way it's designed, the aesthetic and the fact it's painted by 'Eavy Metal suggests it's plastic. This wouldn't be the first time GW's released a limited edition plastic kit, like that void shield generator.

*Edit* Also if you look closely you can see some of the joins like on the grav-cannon barrel.

The Void Shield Generator was polystone, not plastic.


In any case, I have to agree that I can't see this as a permanent exclusive. By showing it off first as a Warhammer World Exclusive, they can (in their minds) prevent fears of a "new Space Marine codex incoming!1!" from their fanbase.

Huh? I'd think that this would do exactly the opposite.

OMG, new Space Marine stuff, codex inbound take cover, panik, fetch the comissar!!!!

This sounds to be an exclusive product - as in 'exclusively sold AT the Warhammer World in Nottingham'.

But let's imagine what GW could do:

- Also sell worldwide available, regular kit(s) with different iconography for all the major Chapters and also include a 'neutral' variant for homebrew-chapters. This would allow selling lots of 'Command Rhino' and 'Command Land Raider' kits at a price increase (like they did with the Razorback). Makes them lots of profit

The LR is nice enough. Nothing that couldn't be done with FW doors and a healthy bits box, but it would certainly make a fine centrepiece.

The Rhino is a mess, though. Any one or two of the extra bits would look good, probably, but all of them at once just overclutters it massively.

GW need new sculpters these are shocking. Look like they're from the 80's

Motograter wrote:
GW need new sculpters these are shocking. Look like they're from the 80's

Feel free to apply:
http://jobs.games-workshop.com/2015/04/16/citadel-miniatures-designer-nottinghamuk/

Wasn't Josef Bugman essentially a WHW exclusive miniature? TBH, it's not really that big of a deal. Except for the blingy bits, all of that stuff is pretty easily converted from existing kits. Once the rules hit the Internet, we can all be special snowflakes. And if you're that much of a rabid SM completionist, make a friend on Dakka who lives in the UK who plans on going to WHW in the near future, and then have them post you a box or two.

Cool model. Stupid to limit them to a single damned store.

We keeping saying it: Great ideas, terrible execution.

The new tanks look... hmm. I don't know what I was expecting.

So the implication is that this is the only thing we're getting for Space Marines? No new codex or whatevs?

So people in Nottingham now have a side business in buying and reselling exclusive kits?