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2015/05/21 17:17:16
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think Tac squads could really use the split fire rule. Why is it that when Mr Lascannon shoots at a tank across the board, the bolter dudes can't shoot the chumps 12" in front of them? And vice versa, the lascannon shouldn't be forced to shoot the chumps if there's a nice tank nearby to shoot at.
Honestly that rule should be baseline for everybody and not a special rule. I still remember the days when only Space Wolves got it on Long Fangs, so they were better in every regard to regular Devastators.
As always I still refuse to play but I'm always wanting to oggle the pretty figures. Even if there are too many Marines already.
- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame
2015/05/21 17:23:31
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
General Kroll wrote: So what are they going to do to the assault marines to make us all want to buy more. I already have a good number of them...
Apparently, they're gaining the ability to take grav pistols, and to swap out their chainsword for another pistol, in addition to getting an increase in the number of special pistols they can take per squad.
As a Blood Angels player, I am extremely butthurt... again...
Why are you butthurt? I have had Blood Angels ever since Rogue Trader, and absolutely love the chapter (ok, I've taken big breaks from them, as long as 10 years, but I always come back). They have so many distinct bits that can be used for power armor squads, like shoulder pads, backpacks, legs, jump packs -- more than any other faction. Unlike space wolves and grey knights, should you choose, you can use your 90% of your blood angels collection to play regular space marines! Just add in the generic SM kits, paint 'em like the rest of your blood angels, and then, Boom! you have 2 factions, with 1 collection. Where else in 40k can you do that (ok fine, you can do so with Dark Angels too...)?
The compatibility between BA and SM parts is also almost 100%. Meaning, you can take parts from a command, devastator, or sternguard squad and stick them onto Blood Angels. You can also easily convert Ravenwing into BA themed bikes. And, you can use the new ASM and Dev parts for your Blood Angels! : D
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 17:24:14
2015/05/21 17:23:37
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
General Kroll wrote: So what are they going to do to the assault marines to make us all want to buy more. I already have a good number of them...
Apparently, they're gaining the ability to take grav pistols, and to swap out their chainsword for another pistol, in addition to getting an increase in the number of special pistols they can take per squad.
As a Blood Angels player, I am extremely butthurt... again...
Yeah I got some nice second hand ones on eBay last week, so I feel your pain. On the other hand loading up disposable shock troops with expensive weapons might not be the most efficient use of points.
Still will be interested to see the new kits. Always liked assault marines, so there's always room in my heart for more.
2015/05/21 17:26:23
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
General Kroll wrote: So what are they going to do to the assault marines to make us all want to buy more. I already have a good number of them...
Apparently, they're gaining the ability to take grav pistols, and to swap out their chainsword for another pistol, in addition to getting an increase in the number of special pistols they can take per squad.
As a Blood Angels player, I am extremely butthurt... again...
Why are you butthurt? I have had Blood Angels ever since Rogue Trader, and absolutely love the chapter (ok, I've taken big breaks from them, as long as 10 years, but I always come back). They have so many distinct bits that can be used for power armor squads, like shoulder pads, backpacks, legs, jump packs -- more than any other faction. Unlike space wolves and grey knights, should you choose, you can use your 90% of your blood angels collection to play regular space marines! Just add in the generic SM kits, paint 'em like the rest of your blood angels, and then, Boom! you have 2 factions, with 1 collection. Where else in 40k can you do that (ok fine, you can do so with Dark Angels too...)?
The compatibility between BA and SM parts is also almost 100%. Meaning, you can take parts from a command, devastator, or sternguard squad and stick them onto Blood Angels. You can also easily convert Ravenwing into BA themed bikes. And, you can use the new ASM and Dev parts for your Blood Angels! : D
Surely it's self evident that the problem isn't anything to do with the kit and everything to do with BA being cast as "the Assault Chapter" and then, and not for the first time, Codex Marines get more options that make them better/more flexible than the named chapter with its own Codex that's supposedly a specialist in that sort of warfare?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Space Marine Assault Squad Kit5 man box. 2 sprues. New grav pistols. New head style. The entire squad can field alternate pistols, multiple are provided. Special weapons are still 1 each. Chainswords and bolt pistols default options remain. Did not see shields, special cc weapons, or sgt options. Possible they might be on a separate sprue.
Space Marine Assault Squad Datacards: Space Marines New Codex: Space Marines Space Marine HQ Command Tanks:
new Dark Angels Battleforce Codex Dark Angels 2015: Codex. Dark Angels eBook: Datacards Dark Angels:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azreal13 wrote: Surely it's self evident that the problem isn't anything to do with the kit and everything to do with BA being cast as "the Assault Chapter" and then, and not for the first time, Codex Marines get more options that make them better/more flexible than the named chapter with its own Codex that's supposedly a specialist in that sort of warfare?
Well, it's unlikely that vanilla marines will get a formation that will allow them to take 1 HQ, 1 Troop and 6 Drop Pods, for example. Or a charge from drop pod formation. Or any number of cool things that are still uniquely Blood Angels. I'm just fine with vanilla codex being somewhat stronger -- it's just recognition that in 7e, powerful cc types are generally less useful than powerful shooty types, because there are ways for people to stay out of cc. I personally love that I can model 1 chapter and get dual use out of it.
By the way, totally off topic, but what would be really cool would be a chapter having a drop pod with a special ability that could squish smaller units if it lands on them. So, drop pod lands, if it's not an MC, the pod on 1-2 is wrecked, on 3-6, it squishes the unit it lands on Bubble-wrap buhhhh-bye!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/21 17:35:27
2015/05/21 17:58:43
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Surely it's self evident that the problem isn't anything to do with the kit and everything to do with BA being cast as "the Assault Chapter" and then, and not for the first time, Codex Marines get more options that make them better/more flexible than the named chapter with its own Codex that's supposedly a specialist in that sort of warfare?
*Ding ding ding ding*
Yep, just irritated that I started playing 40k a year/year and a half ago, with what I thought was THE close combat army, only to find that the army was going to rapidly be outpaced in it's own supposed area of expertise. I find myself getting routinely slaughtered by Space Wolves and Khorne Daemonkin in close combat, while still lacking the tactical flexibility of most other armies.
But, enough whining!
As someone who also owns a ton of unpainted vanilla Space Marines, I'm pretty psyched that I might have some interesting (and powerful) options for my other power-armoured hooligans.
By the way, totally off topic, but what would be really cool would be a chapter having a drop pod with a special ability that could squish smaller units if it lands on them. So, drop pod lands, if it's not an MC, the pod on 1-2 is wrecked, on 3-6, it squishes the unit it lands on Bubble-wrap buhhhh-bye!
You mean, like this:
Spoiler:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/21 18:09:50
10,000+ Points // 5,000+ Points
2015/05/21 18:11:15
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
IMO, ALL tactical marines needs to have the "Legendary Marksmen" special rule from the Forgeworld Raptors chapter tactics. This would perfectly represent lethality of an Astartes firing a boltgun in short, controlled, well-aimed- bursts and would actually make bolters worth a damn, as that would give them more potential targets. I'd much prefer that over having 9 idiots doing nothing, while a lascanon fires or 8 idiots, who does nothing but act as a bullet sponge while the sergeant and the meltagunner shoots at that 1 tank.
It would also mean that your tactical bolters would actually pose a potential threat to MC, rather than shooting helplessly while you only care about how the plasma gunner rolls.
2015/05/21 18:31:56
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
How about heavy bolters being D weapons - then they will see table time. And assault marines (if they have a new head on the sprue) might have a D CC weapon - that is in their helmet. They ram the target.
And bikes should get D weapon tires and get a 'run' em over' attack. This attack is so powerful a bike can ride up and over an IK.
Yes, D weapons everywhere!!
Oh, and terminators get...nothing.
2015/05/21 18:55:20
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Nvs wrote: What good would dual wielding pistols do?
If you can swap a chainsword for a bolt pistol - potentially double the firepower of the squad at close range for cheap (assuming that it costs a lot less than taking a plasma pistol).
10,000+ Points // 5,000+ Points
2015/05/21 19:03:16
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Zewrath wrote: IMO, ALL tactical marines needs to have the "Legendary Marksmen" special rule from the Forgeworld Raptors chapter tactics. This would perfectly represent lethality of an Astartes firing a boltgun in short, controlled, well-aimed- bursts and would actually make bolters worth a damn, as that would give them more potential targets. I'd much prefer that over having 9 idiots doing nothing, while a lascanon fires or 8 idiots, who does nothing but act as a bullet sponge while the sergeant and the meltagunner shoots at that 1 tank.
It would also mean that your tactical bolters would actually pose a potential threat to MC, rather than shooting helplessly while you only care about how the plasma gunner rolls.
why on earth do people put heavy weapons in TAC squads in the first place, then complain that their sub optimal load out is sub optimal...
tac squads maybe get special weapons, CCW, or meltabombs, ive never even considered putting a heavy weapon in there.
2015/05/21 19:05:02
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Nvs wrote: What good would dual wielding pistols do?
If you can swap a chainsword for a bolt pistol - potentially double the firepower of the squad at close range for cheap (assuming that it costs a lot less than taking a plasma pistol).
Free swap for double BP would be pretty cool.
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2015/05/21 19:09:22
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Nvs wrote: What good would dual wielding pistols do?
If you can swap a chainsword for a bolt pistol - potentially double the firepower of the squad at close range for cheap (assuming that it costs a lot less than taking a plasma pistol).
Free swap for double BP would be pretty cool.
seraphim style marines would be pretty boss,
2015/05/21 19:33:00
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
BrookM wrote: Will be interesting to see if they do anything with Centurions as well.
I don't think it would be anything super exciting, if they change much at all. They won't make Centurions weaker, because then people would stop buying an expensive kit. They won't make the stronger, because they're already pretty good. And the kit already has all the parts in it, so it's not like they can give them a different weapon option -- at least, without updating the kit, and there are much older kits that need a refresh.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the down side... no mention of any overpriced clampack plastic heroes :(
I would have loved just... two Ok, 3. I am greedy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 20:03:25
2015/05/21 20:05:20
Subject: Re:New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Zewrath wrote: IMO, ALL tactical marines needs to have the "Legendary Marksmen" special rule from the Forgeworld Raptors chapter tactics. This would perfectly represent lethality of an Astartes firing a boltgun in short, controlled, well-aimed- bursts and would actually make bolters worth a damn, as that would give them more potential targets. I'd much prefer that over having 9 idiots doing nothing, while a lascanon fires or 8 idiots, who does nothing but act as a bullet sponge while the sergeant and the meltagunner shoots at that 1 tank.
It would also mean that your tactical bolters would actually pose a potential threat to MC, rather than shooting helplessly while you only care about how the plasma gunner rolls.
why on earth do people put heavy weapons in TAC squads in the first place, then complain that their sub optimal load out is sub optimal...
tac squads maybe get special weapons, CCW, or meltabombs, ive never even considered putting a heavy weapon in there.
A min sized squad with a lascanon and a razorback isn't uncommon despite not being optimal.
Also not uncommon is combat squad a PC/ML group and have the melta/plasma and combi weapons in the rhino that goes forward. Hardly top efficient but not uncommon either.
Besides, your reply isn't even remotely related to anything in my post, so let's keep list benchmarking discussions out of this?
2015/05/21 20:08:15
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
Zewrath wrote: IMO, ALL tactical marines needs to have the "Legendary Marksmen" special rule from the Forgeworld Raptors chapter tactics. This would perfectly represent lethality of an Astartes firing a boltgun in short, controlled, well-aimed- bursts and would actually make bolters worth a damn, as that would give them more potential targets. I'd much prefer that over having 9 idiots doing nothing, while a lascanon fires or 8 idiots, who does nothing but act as a bullet sponge while the sergeant and the meltagunner shoots at that 1 tank.
It would also mean that your tactical bolters would actually pose a potential threat to MC, rather than shooting helplessly while you only care about how the plasma gunner rolls.
why on earth do people put heavy weapons in TAC squads in the first place, then complain that their sub optimal load out is sub optimal...
tac squads maybe get special weapons, CCW, or meltabombs, ive never even considered putting a heavy weapon in there.
A min sized squad with a lascanon and a razorback isn't uncommon despite not being optimal.
Also not uncommon is combat squad a PC/ML group and have the melta/plasma and combi weapons in the rhino that goes forward. Hardly top efficient but not uncommon either.
Besides, your reply isn't even remotely related to anything in my post, so let's keep list benchmarking discussions out of this?
I personally run 5-man crusader squads with 1 heavy and 1 special weapon inside a razorback, it's very good
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 20:09:27
2015/05/21 20:12:18
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
BrookM wrote: Will be interesting to see if they do anything with Centurions as well.
I don't think it would be anything super exciting, if they change much at all. They won't make Centurions weaker, because then people would stop buying an expensive kit.
Actually that's very possibly what they'll do, assuming you subscribe to the "rules are manipulated to sell models" theory, which I don't simply because there's too much evidence to the contrary.
I've seen somewhere, I think buried in the CHS case thread somewhere, that the overwhelming percentage of a new kit's sales figures are within a comparatively short time after release.
It is quite feasible, given those two pieces of information, that Centurions will be nerfed into the ground in favour of boosting something else new, or whose figures need a shot in the arm.
Or they could get buffed because the designer rolls a 6 on the morning he planned to write the rules.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Man I really hope assault marines become viable. I have really wanted to have a bunch of assault marines in my Black Templar list but never got any. Now I may have to.
Azreal13 wrote: the "rules are manipulated to sell models" theory
Most likely this is what they actually do, they just don't really know what is good and not.
They couldn't shoot so far wide of the mark so regularly (both in terms of over and under doing things) and still be able to produce work to the standard they do. For all the well deserved criticism, there are plenty of things in the game that aren't widely discussed because they're simply just reasonable.
I've long held the theory that their are essentially two philosophies at work in the studio, the "try and keep everything on a similar level so the game remains playable" group and the "waaagh! Pew pew! giant Robots! Random is the best" group. The books and model releases and the relative power levels are simply representative of who got their hands on which project.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Icculus wrote: Man I really hope assault marines become viable. I have really wanted to have a bunch of assault marines in my Black Templar list but never got any. Now I may have to.
I wouldn't hold your breath, there's every chance they could get better, but they'll still be an assault unit in a game that fundamentally favours shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/21 20:31:18
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Azreal13 wrote: They couldn't shoot so far wide of the mark so regularly (both in terms of over and under doing things) and still be able to produce work to the standard they do. For all the well deserved criticism, there are plenty of things in the game that aren't widely discussed because they're simply just reasonable.
I've long held the theory that their are essentially two philosophies at work in the studio, the "try and keep everything on a similar level so the game remains playable" group and the "waaagh! Pew pew! giant Robots! Random is the best" group. The books and model releases and the relative power levels are simply representative of who got their hands on which project.
This, my friend, sounds very close to reality
2015/05/21 20:55:10
Subject: New Adeptus Astartes - STR D Rumor - p 15
The rumors for Devs say there will be older marks of armor on the sprue.
Could these be the heresy era Marines that were rumored to be coming out?????
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
Ok, 3. I am greedy.
