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 Talys wrote:
The german version is way better

I see some little text on the footnote about Tigurius and stuff. Am I guessing the German correctly, that you can replace the Chaplain with Tigurius (etc), and Captain with Lysander (etc)?

Nope. Only Librarians in a formation.

 Crazyterran wrote:
The fact that you have to take an auxiliary means that running a full battle company might be a bit to expensive for 1500 and below...

The suppression force (WW+LS) looks to be the cheapest at 115. Might be something else, still running on 3rd hand info. Points might also have changed.

This settles the discussion of whether a Chapter Master can be subbed for a Captain in the demi-company.

Every named character is listed except for Calgar, Helbrecht and Pedro, so it's limited to Captains only.

 Auswin wrote:
This settles the discussion of whether a Chapter Master can be subbed for a Captain in the demi-company.

Every named character is listed except for Calgar, Helbrecht and Pedro, so it's limited to Captains only.

That's awesome. I'm liking the Gladius more and more!

 Auswin wrote:
This settles the discussion of whether a Chapter Master can be subbed for a Captain in the demi-company.

Every named character is listed except for Calgar, Helbrecht and Pedro, so it's limited to Captains only.

Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

I think the Gladius is neat. It's open to crazy amounts of abuse, but ultimately it still comes down to whether you or your opponent wants to be "that guy" and ensure they have 500-700 more points through transports.

It's going to be very interesting to see how ITC handles this. The wording is that you have to take two demi-companies, but they don't allow duplications of a formation -- and even if they did you'd hit 3 sources just taking the full company, making it hard to stay at 1850 effectively.

We'll likely just see SM double-CAD at the tournament level.

There is a disturbing lack of non-formation auxiliary choices. I'll probably be forced to stick with a CAD. I don't mind buying a few models or vehicles to update to the new codex, it comes with the territory, but this seems to be the most restricive "decurion" so far.

Requizen wrote:


Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

With a separate character title and stat-line. Upgrade or not, a captain is not a chapter master and vice-versa. The formation specifically calls for a captain and allows every special character captain, but denies the CM equivalent. I'm sure people will argue for it, but RAW it's clear.

Note to those looking to build the full company that the librarium is a command selection not an auxilary, so won't satisfy the aux 1+ requirement. Scouts is probably the only fluffy/competitive option if you were going drop pod route. Anti air one or whirlwind one makes sense if doing razor spam

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterman wrote:
Note to those looking to build the full company that the librarium is a command selection not an auxilary, so won't satisfy the aux 1+ requirement. Scouts is probably the only fluffy/competitive option if you were going drop pod route. Anti air one or whirlwind one makes sense if doing razor spam

If grav is really 20 points, instead of 35, it leaves plenty of points for double demi plus aux.

I may have missed this because I'm on my phone. Do tactical squads get heavy flamers?

From B&C:

Ultramarines CT : Each doctrine Once per game (all models with CT)

Gladius : Each Doctrine once per game (all models with CT that are part of a Gladius) from the French book

Demi Company : Tactical Doctrine once per game (all models with CT that are part of the demi company) from the German book

That means with a full Ultramarine company, you get 2/2/2 army wide doctrines, +1 with Calgar, and 2 extra tactical doctrines that affects each demi-company once per game.

That's a whole lotta buffs. Though again, I'm thinking Iron Hands could be better, because FNP may be preferable to getting more buffs than you have turns to use (though the extra army-wide tactical doctrine is ace)

So, take a command squad with an Apothecary with Iron Hands CT, you now have a squad with 4+ FNP.

 Auswin wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

With a separate character title and stat-line. Upgrade or not, a captain is not a chapter master and vice-versa. The formation specifically calls for a captain and allows every special character captain, but denies the CM equivalent. I'm sure people will argue for it, but RAW it's clear.

It allows Khan and Vulkan though, who are clearly Chapter Masters.

Eh, since gravs are likely 35, I think it might be better to stick with a CAD for tournaments, at least.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I may have missed this because I'm on my phone. Do tactical squads get heavy flamers?

It looks like the german gear page has #2 note on it, which says something about sternguard and LotD. So I’m guessing it’s still restricted like the last book.

Pretre wrote:

 winterman wrote:
Note to those looking to build the full company that the librarium is a command selection not an auxilary, so won't satisfy the aux 1+ requirement. Scouts is probably the only fluffy/competitive option if you were going drop pod route. Anti air one or whirlwind one makes sense if doing razor spam

If grav is really 20 points, instead of 35, it leaves plenty of points for double demi plus aux.

True. Now all you gotta do is convince ITC to let you take two demi companies, cause as it stands now that is illegal at their events and any that follow their army build rules (like all the events in the PacNW that I know of...)

So... there were some rumors of command squads getting more than 5- sounds like that didn't happen?

Has anyone seen anything about trading out Tactical Squads for Crusader Squads in the main Detatchment, or any BT formation beside what that first Command Formation is?

Great stuff so far folks!

 winterman wrote:

Pretre wrote:

 winterman wrote:
Note to those looking to build the full company that the librarium is a command selection not an auxilary, so won't satisfy the aux 1+ requirement. Scouts is probably the only fluffy/competitive option if you were going drop pod route. Anti air one or whirlwind one makes sense if doing razor spam

If grav is really 20 points, instead of 35, it leaves plenty of points for double demi plus aux.

True. Now all you gotta do is convince ITC to let you take two demi companies, cause as it stands now that is illegal at their events and any that follow their army build rules (like all the events in the PacNW that I know of...)

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I may have missed this because I'm on my phone. Do tactical squads get heavy flamers?

Nope.

Requizen wrote:

It allows Khan and Vulkan though, who are clearly Chapter Masters.

Both wrong.

Vulkan He'stan - Former Captain of the 4th Company, He'stan now serves as the Chapter's current Forgefather. Tu'Shan is the Chapter Master.

Kor'sarro Khan is the Khan (Captain) of the 3rd Brotherhood (Company) of the White Scars Space Marine Chapter and is also the Chapter's current Master of the Hunt. Jubal Khan is the current chapter master.

Requizen wrote:

 Auswin wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

With a separate character title and stat-line. Upgrade or not, a captain is not a chapter master and vice-versa. The formation specifically calls for a captain and allows every special character captain, but denies the CM equivalent. I'm sure people will argue for it, but RAW it's clear.

It allows Khan and Vulkan though, who are clearly Chapter Masters.

Except that neither of them are chapter masters and never have been. Have you read either of their fluff or even their titles?

 docdoom77 wrote:
There is a disturbing lack of non-formation auxiliary choices. I'll probably be forced to stick with a CAD. I don't mind buying a few models or vehicles to update to the new codex, it comes with the territory, but this seems to be the most restricive "decurion" so far.

Clearly you haven't seen the formations for the Eldar Warhost. At least the Space Marine codex formations appear to have something resembling flexibility!

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
There is a disturbing lack of non-formation auxiliary choices. I'll probably be forced to stick with a CAD. I don't mind buying a few models or vehicles to update to the new codex, it comes with the territory, but this seems to be the most restricive "decurion" so far.

Clearly you haven't seen the formations for the Eldar Warhost. At least the Space Marine codex formations appear to have something resembling flexibility!

I OWN that book. They do have auxilliary choices which are not formations, allowing you to bring a single units (Wraithknights for instance). Same with the Necrons. In these leaks, I have seen nothing similar in the Space Marine book.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Auswin wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

With a separate character title and stat-line. Upgrade or not, a captain is not a chapter master and vice-versa. The formation specifically calls for a captain and allows every special character captain, but denies the CM equivalent. I'm sure people will argue for it, but RAW it's clear.

It allows Khan and Vulkan though, who are clearly Chapter Masters.

Except that neither of them are chapter masters and never have been. Have you read either of their fluff or even their titles?

Huh, guess not. I only have a cursory understanding of Marine characters, I was under the impression that those were Chapter Master characters.

New Dreadnought with 4 basic Attacks:


New Sternguard with pointdrop:


New Vanguard with cheap Power Wepons:

Do I understand that right? You can have multiple Dreads in one org slot?

Requizen wrote:

 monkeypuzzle wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Auswin wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Chapter Master is a Captain upgrade, so unless there's a restriction in the formation I don't see why you couldn't upgrade him.

With a separate character title and stat-line. Upgrade or not, a captain is not a chapter master and vice-versa. The formation specifically calls for a captain and allows every special character captain, but denies the CM equivalent. I'm sure people will argue for it, but RAW it's clear.

It allows Khan and Vulkan though, who are clearly Chapter Masters.

Except that neither of them are chapter masters and never have been. Have you read either of their fluff or even their titles?

Huh, guess not. I only have a cursory understanding of Marine characters, I was under the impression that those were Chapter Master characters.

No my friend, you think of Pedro Cantor, High Marshal Helbrect and Marneus Augustus Calgar. They are the name Chapter Masters of the book.

Hmm, only +10ppm for dual claws. Suddenly, running Shrike's Wing doesn't seem so insane! Or at least, cheap enough that my ultra-fluffy tastes can tolerate it!