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DarthDiggler wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

GreyDragoon wrote:
I totally get where their head is at with defining a point limit for LOWs, but yeah.. I'd try and bring it down further to like 500 so you really block any of the big hitters (eldar, Tau, Knights) from having 2 models, or you have to do a flat restriction such as 1 model or 1 unit (decide which makes more sense)

At 700 you're going to see a buttload of double WK lists. And why not right?

By any chance have you taken a look at the champs missions and assessed them vis a vis the 700 point LoW limit?

This is the current draft:

http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2016/201640Kchampprimers.pdf

I like those scenarios. Original, tactical, and it seems to give many types of armies a chance.

If the LOW limit is 700 and the Ta'unar is 600, will there ever be anything left on the table after that thing has had 5 turns of shooting?

fortunately that's not on the list of approved Forge world units

axisofentropy wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:

DCannon4Life wrote:

GreyDragoon wrote:
I totally get where their head is at with defining a point limit for LOWs, but yeah.. I'd try and bring it down further to like 500 so you really block any of the big hitters (eldar, Tau, Knights) from having 2 models, or you have to do a flat restriction such as 1 model or 1 unit (decide which makes more sense)

At 700 you're going to see a buttload of double WK lists. And why not right?

By any chance have you taken a look at the champs missions and assessed them vis a vis the 700 point LoW limit?

This is the current draft:

http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2016/201640Kchampprimers.pdf

I like those scenarios. Original, tactical, and it seems to give many types of armies a chance.

If the LOW limit is 700 and the Ta'unar is 600, will there ever be anything left on the table after that thing has had 5 turns of shooting?

fortunately that's not on the list of approved Forge world units

And that is why Chris and Hank are smarter than me.

I would point out that the Super Heavy/FW/LoW list hasn't been updated yet for 2016, but I don't think anyone expects Adepticon to allow the Tau'nar in. While hilarious (FW would sell a TON of them between now and March) they rarely make mistakes like that.

What is more problematic is the actual point limit and Wraith Knights. 2 Wraith Knights is nothing to sneeze at, they are wonderfully point costed when taken as a pair - and since Eldar can simply go demon summoning to fill up their backboard/take middle the big guys can jump across the board and go straight into assault. Very few lists out there can handle two of them at the same time early game, while not ending up screwed to demon summoning later. With, of course, min squads of bikes ready to seize objectives in the end of the game.

Not saying it's unbeatable.. Just that it's really an odd allowence for Lords of War if you're seeking to limit them through a point cap. Wraiths are currently one of, if not the, best points per LoW decisions out there other than Draigo. (Draigo!!!!)

GreyDragoon wrote:

What is more problematic is the actual point limit and Wraith Knights. 2 Wraith Knights is nothing to sneeze at, they are wonderfully point costed when taken as a pair - and since Eldar can simply go demon summoning to fill up their backboard/take middle the big guys can jump across the board and go straight into assault. Very few lists out there can handle two of them at the same time early game, while not ending up screwed to demon summoning later. With, of course, min squads of bikes ready to seize objectives in the end of the game.

The only ways for Eldar to Daemon summon anymore are 1) Corsairs which are not allowed, and 2) come the apocalypse allies which cost lots of points and every one has access to. Space Marines Daemon summon better than Eldar.

I think people should actually play against 2 wraithknights a few times. It's certainly strong but several of the top armies can handle it readily. Space marines w loads of grav (which is all space marines) give it fits. Daemons spamming psychic shriek give it fits. Other eldar with lots of warp spiders give it fits. Tau can give it trouble if they go first. Necron lychguard units can give it trouble. DA/Thunder wolves give it trouble if the stomps don't come through (which with only 2 they probably won't). Most of the top armies have good answers in what they bring normally. No need to even counter build.

The boogeyman man level of fear ascribed to 2 wraithknights is really unfounded in my opinion. Even if wratihknights were 150 points too cheap (which they aren't) then two of them gets you ~300pts worth of free value. That's still less than Battle Company and War Convocation. Good for sure, not the best (certainly not in progerssive objective missions), and the other top armies have plenty of ways to deal.

 ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:

The boogeyman man level of fear ascribed to 2 wraithknights is really unfounded in my opinion. Even if wratihknights were 150 points too cheap (which they aren't) then two of them gets you ~300pts worth of free value. That's still less than Battle Company and War Convocation. Good for sure, not the best (certainly not in progerssive objective missions), and the other top armies have plenty of ways to deal.

It's not really a level of fear, moreso that effectively every other army is limited to a single LoW (or two very bad ones), while Eldar get two. Also, keep in mind that there are two new Wraithknights that are going to be available soon by merit of being published in an IA book (why IA is allowed and other FW isn't is still beyond me...) that are comparably nuts/worse.

 ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:


The boogeyman man level of fear ascribed to 2 wraithknights is really unfounded in my opinion. Even if wratihknights were 150 points too cheap (which they aren't) then two of them gets you ~300pts worth of free value. That's still less than Battle Company and War Convocation. Good for sure, not the best (certainly not in progerssive objective missions), and the other top armies have plenty of ways to deal.

It is not fear - just that it is an unfair advantage for eldar since the WK is so undercosted.

 Dozer Blades wrote:

It is not fear - just that it is an unfair advantage for eldar since the WK is so undercosted.

"Fear" should be read as complaining about it being unfair.

Regulating LoW is exceedingly difficult. No rule that I've seen to date is perceived as "fair" for all armies. IMO, 2 WKs are quite a bit weaker than 2 storm surges or 3 imperial knights which are both legal in the ITC format. How is that fair?

There is no perfect answer. I think people need to realize that and try to see the good in any solution presented.

Having a hard points limit of 700 allows at least one of most of the more reasonable LoW in while keeping out most of the crazy stuff. The rule applies evenly to all armies (which is it's own kind of fairness). And the only real oddity from it is 2 WKs which, again, will not run the board in the draft mission packet by any stretch.

 ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:
will not run the board in the draft mission packet by any stretch.

You may want to look at the double Hellstorm S7AP4 Monofilament Scathach Wraithknight. Those can basically negate the "hot zones" in the primer missions while likely sitting with a toe in cover

The rule applies evenly to all armies (which is it's own kind of fairness).

This implies that all Superheavies are point-costed appropriately, which is wildly inaccurate. 2 Wraithknights are vastly better than, say, a Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne. Hell, I'd say one Wraithknight is better.

 1PlusLogan wrote:

You may want to look at the double Hellstorm S7AP4 Monofilament Scathach Wraithknight. Those can basically negate the "hot zones" in the primer missions while likely sitting with a toe in cover

Which will do very little to battle company, necrons, tau suits, flying anything, anything that can hide in the zones which is easy given how big they are, etc. etc.

 1PlusLogan wrote:

This implies that all Superheavies are point-costed appropriately, which is wildly inaccurate. 2 Wraithknights are vastly better than, say, a Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne. Hell, I'd say one Wraithknight is better.

It absolutely doesn't. You must also think that because people are different heights it's not fair that the basketball hoop is 10 feet high for everyone.

Well it is obvious you have a bias in favor of eldar. I would like to see LoW clocking in at 600 points or less to keep it more fair .

 ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:


Which will do very little to battle company, necrons, tau suits, flying anything, anything that can hide in the zones which is easy given how big they are, etc. etc.

...

 ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:
It absolutely doesn't. You must also think that because people are different heights it's not fair that the basketball hoop is 10 feet high for everyone.

...

Yep, I got baited. Can't delete my post.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Well it is obvious you have a bias in favor of eldar. I would like to see LoW clocking in at 600 points or less to keep it more fair .

That's still 2 Wraithknights

O snap let's make it 500 points.

AdeptiCon will be producing a limited run of custom gaming mats to match our existing terrain sets and the needs of the convention. Due to minimum print runs, a limited number of these mats will be for sale during the registration period.

These mats will be strictly limited and once they are gone, they are gone!

Features: 4' x 6' water resistant, anti-shine playing surface printed in 300dpi. No logo or branding on playing surface. Neoprene rubber-backed 'mousepad' construction. Nylon zipper bag and tag for transport/storage.

We will be producing two design this year: “Grassy” and “Concrete” and are currently available in 4’ x 6’ ($80) and 2’ x 2’ ($25) sizes.











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Log into the AdeptiCon Web Cart using your email address and confirmation number. Click the Modify button at the top. This will walk you through the registration process again. Add the event sessions and/or merchandise you are interested in. Please note that everything you have previous registered and paid for will show up, so do not remove anything unless you want to drop an event (last day for refunds is 01.01.16). At the end of the process you will be charged for any new events/merchandise you have added.


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New Hobby Seminars Added!

With a total of 92 classes, AdeptiCon 2016 is the largest and most varied lineup of Hobby Seminars to date! As expected, several popular classes sold out very quickly after registration opened. To meet the demand, we’ve added six additional classes to the lineup.

Painting Smoother Blends
Rhonda Bender
Thursday 10:00PM – 12:00AM

How to Paint Faster and Better
Anthony Wang
Friday 10:00PM – 12:00AM

Blending with Oils
Kirill Kanaev
Saturday 2:30PM – 4:30PM

Wet Blending & Loaded Brush 101
Aaron Lovejoy
Saturday 5:00PM – 7:00PM

The Secrets of the Loaded Brush
Ben Komets
Saturday 5:00PM – 7:00PM

Painting Realistic Faces
David Powell
Saturday 10:00PM – 12:00AM

This will be your chance to learn that tricks that they and the rest of our seminar instructors have used to win numerous accolades and awards. Don’t miss your chance to squeeze a little more hobby goodness into your weekend schedule!

Tickets for these events are now available in the AdeptiCon 2016 Webcart and are going fast! See the note above if you have questions about how to add an event or modify your registration.

muwhe wrote:
We will be producing two design this year: “Grassy” and “Concrete” and are currently available in 4’ x 6’ ($80) and 2’ x 2’ ($25) sizes.

Oh man, 2' x 2'!! I could actually fit that on a plane

I shamefully chopped up my beautiful alpine mat to fit it on the plane in 2012 for our team display... I'm very interested in a smaller mat size.

My only question is, are the 2x2s made such that they can be put together easily to form a larger area (such as 4x4), or do they have rounded corners and so won't look nice when placed together?

If there were any chance you could take a picture of a few laid out, that would be brilliant! Even if I can't put them together for gaming, I might want one just for a display mat (again, I've shamefully been cutting up other mats for this purpose )

@RiTides - The 2x2 is really geared towards the DBA player segment and has a pretty tight radius corner. I'll make sure to post some photos of the 2x2 version but these have certainly exceeded my expectations.

Are the Imperial Armor Legacies of Glory allowed in the Adepticon 40k Championship? I think it's likely because they aren't explicitly excluded, but they aren't explicitly included either.

More specifically, can I include one on my Ravenwing Darkshroud?

Is a photocopy of the relevant pages sufficient to carry?

My first big tournament, thanks for organizing.

Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age Events

Sound thy trumpets, tune thy drums and sharpen thy daggers! The 9th Age is upon us!

Due to popular demand, we have added several new Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age events to the AdeptiCon 2016 roster - allowing you to play Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age all weekend long!

The 9th Age is a community driven rules pack for wargaming in a fantasy world environment. Old-time AdeptiCon attendees will notice several similar events from ages past. Spots are limited, so make sure to sign up today!

Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age Big Brawl
Thursday
9:30AM - 10:00PM

Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age Singles Tournament
Friday
8:00AM - 9:30PM

Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age Team Tournament
Saturday
9:00AM - 7:30PM

Fantasy Battles: The 9th Age Warbands
Sunday
9:00AM - 4:30PM

axisofentropy wrote:
Are the Imperial Armor Legacies of Glory allowed in the Adepticon 40k Championship? I think it's likely because they aren't explicitly excluded, but they aren't explicitly included either.

More specifically, can I include one on my Ravenwing Darkshroud?

Is a photocopy of the relevant pages sufficient to carry?

My first big tournament, thanks for organizing.

The Legacies of Glory can be included in Space Marine detachments, as defined on Page 244 of IA 2 V2. You should be prepared to present the actual book for your opponents if needed.

Regards,

Chris

It seems to me that the missions basically say you can't bring a Decurion or other non-ObSec detachment if you want a chance at winning. Especially the zones in missions 1 and 2, they're just too big for any army without ObSec to score points.

It's definitely a Battle Company favorable lineup of missions generally in that sense @Requizen. Keeping an eye on how that plays out so far.

Basically what I'm finding in various playtesting as well. If you aren't spamming obsec (read as: huge amounts of Jetbikes and/or Battle Company) you don't really have a hope of scoring the objectives.

Unless you can kill it all which I think is achievable via the given parameters.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Unless you can kill it all which I think is achievable via the given parameters.

Except that with progressive objectives BC will have already scored a large amount of points (and denied you as many) before you make a dent in the numbers.

In the first mission specifically, the primary outweighs the secondary by such an extreme amount that it's not even funny. The second, like any KP mission, depends on both army sizes, but is still dominated by any ObSec spamming list because it's almost impossible to have enough zone control to deny areas of that size.

We shall see how it plays out. Objsec is strong for sure.

Requizen wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Unless you can kill it all which I think is achievable via the given parameters.

Except that with progressive objectives BC will have already scored a large amount of points (and denied you as many) before you make a dent in the numbers.

In the first mission specifically, the primary outweighs the secondary by such an extreme amount that it's not even funny. The second, like any KP mission, depends on both army sizes, but is still dominated by any ObSec spamming list because it's almost impossible to have enough zone control to deny areas of that size.

Does it help that there are only 1-2 places to go to get points and not 4-6 objective locations. MSU OjSec lists can't spread out as far and will be forced to come to heavy hitters/kill zones.

DarthDiggler wrote:


Does it help that there are only 1-2 places to go to get points and not 4-6 objective locations. MSU OjSec lists can't spread out as far and will be forced to come to heavy hitters/kill zones.

That was my initial thought as well, but because the scoring zone is a 24" diameter circle instead of a 6" diameter circle (3" from objective normally) it becomes somewhat trivial to be in/behind terrain, and Adepticon generally has lots of LOS blocking terrain as well.

Agreed, defending/denying 24" bubbles without obsec is very hard to do. I do applaud the zone mechanics though, they work very nicely otherwise. Could these possibly be turned into 12" or 18" bubbles? Something at least a little more manageable? Otherwise trying to deny msu obsec (looking at you marines) is basically impossible if your opponent is playing at all creatively.

Oh, any word on when the 40k faq is getting updated? As a Tau player it will have a pretty big impact on me one way or the other and need to plan my list accordingly. Fingers crossed for not itc rules on the contingent.

 1PlusLogan wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:


Does it help that there are only 1-2 places to go to get points and not 4-6 objective locations. MSU OjSec lists can't spread out as far and will be forced to come to heavy hitters/kill zones.

That was my initial thought as well, but because the scoring zone is a 24" diameter circle instead of a 6" diameter circle (3" from objective normally) it becomes somewhat trivial to be in/behind terrain, and Adepticon generally has lots of LOS blocking terrain as well.

It does seem that a 24" diameter circle, nearly 1/3rd the board would be difficult to keep all the enemy units out each turn. I guess Objective Secured units are mandatory.

Any news on updates to FAQ/Army Construction/Missions? I know everyone was probably pretty busy around the holidays, just wondering if there are any planned word soon.

DarthDiggler wrote:

 1PlusLogan wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:


Does it help that there are only 1-2 places to go to get points and not 4-6 objective locations. MSU OjSec lists can't spread out as far and will be forced to come to heavy hitters/kill zones.

That was my initial thought as well, but because the scoring zone is a 24" diameter circle instead of a 6" diameter circle (3" from objective normally) it becomes somewhat trivial to be in/behind terrain, and Adepticon generally has lots of LOS blocking terrain as well.

It does seem that a 24" diameter circle, nearly 1/3rd the board would be difficult to keep all the enemy units out each turn. I guess Objective Secured units are mandatory.

To be fair, the objective circle is only about 13% of the board space.

Still, it's a huge area, and the only area that matters as far as scoring is concerned, which extremely favors certain army types and makes others non-viable by virtue of just not being able to score. Which is pretty poor mission design, sorry to say.