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 BlaxicanX wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Stock Wraithlord. Same points, but literally can't lose.

Read the opening post before posting.

NVM

I had forgotten that Triskele replaced the Shuriken Pistol.

The Avatar could probably go the distance. Even disarmed at -5WS -5 I.

What about a Talos?

A DP could also probably still do it.

She hits it at 5x(2/3)(1/3)(2/3), or 20/27 wounds.
He hits her at 6x(1/2)(1/2?)(1), or 6/4 wounds/round with no weapon.

She has 3 wounds.

Naked DP has 5.

Naked DP should win easily.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Stock Wraithlord. Same points, but literally can't lose.

Read the opening post before posting.

NVM

S4 can't wound T8.

Talos no character.

So far one of the best chances is the Dread knight at 130 points stock

thats the number to beat from what i can tell.

clux is 140 so doesnt beat that.

Callidus Assassin is only 145 points, and neuters the special ability of Jain Zar by having 3 brutal weapons (poison blades, phase sword, neural disruptor). Even if 1 is taken away, she still gets 5 attacks, all with a good chance of doing something nasty - Rending / 3+ Poison, no invulnerable saves on 6, or always wounds on 4+ -- she can remove 1, at the cost of 1 attack, which probably means Jain Zar will just keep the attack.

Callidus just has better equipment for less points in a challenge.

But really, I don't think a challenge is the way to kill Jain Zar. She is not a durable model and can be killed much more easily at range; at 200 points base, she's just begging to be shot up.

So, based on a 10 run sample I just rolled (ignoring charging bonuses, as if the two characters had already been in a round of combat and both whiffed their attacks), it turns out that the Culexus wins hands down. Running the stats given, the Culexus won 10 out of 10.

 Talys wrote:

But really, I don't think a challenge is the way to kill Jain Zar. She is not a durable model and can be killed much more easily at range; at 200 points base, she's just begging to be shot up.

Its an abbadon steals lunch money thread realistically everyone would just shoot her off the table.

Note that Jain Zar has two CC weapons. The one listed is strictly better, but she does get the +1A. I don't think it changes much, though.

Orikan the Diviner might have a decent shot at it.

120 points

4 4 4 4 2 2 2 10 4+

4++ save, Reanimation (always a 4+), Eternal warrior if warlord, and rerolls saving throws of 1. Plus, he goes Super Saiyan during the course of the game and becomes...

5 5 7 7 4 4 4 10 4+

So, yeah. His weapon would be useless in this case though.

 Mumblez wrote:
Thanks, Ratius!

Hmm, an ork warboss with a power klaw, cybork body and da killa klaw might stand a chance. -5I doesn't matter, because of Unwieldy and the boss has 2 PKs to counteract the disarming feature. He might die before he gets to swing though.

There's Ghazghkull during his Waaagh! 2++ save and a ton of ID attacks should make a dead phoenix lord.

put the Warboss on a bike and Zar needs 6s to wound.

I didn't know she had an extra attack, no. Having just ran another 10 fights, it was Culexus-6 Jain-4 (without Jain's extra attack). So, 16-4. Having rolled an extra 20 attacks over all those rounds might have tipped it a little, but not by enough to tip it into a majority of Jain victories. So, I estimated that the Culexus wins 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the time.

Oh, I take back the assassin. A Solitaire is only 145 points, too, and has 6 attacks, and a Jain Zar can either take away the Kiss or Carress, or keep the extra attack; either way with WS9 and I10, the Solitaire could just get lucky and kill Jain Zar with lucky rolls

Bharring wrote:
Note that Jain Zar has two CC weapons. The one listed is strictly better, but she does get the +1A. I don't think it changes much, though.

What’s her second weapon? The Silent Death lacks the pistol or melee trait. It’s just a fancy gun these days. If GW was still in the habit of putting out FAQ, they’s probably change that, as the generic ones HB exarchs can get does have the melee trait. But none for the queen of 80’s hair.

 Paradigm wrote:
Nurgle biker Lord, two Power Fists and whatever the 4++ Wargear is (Aura of Dark Glory?) Not a ton of attacks, but between MoN and a bike he gets T6, so Jain is only wounding on 6s and even with Shred that's not good odds. Conversely, he'll be wounding on 2s, so should finish her over a few rounds. No idea on cost, or if Chaos have any relics that could help.

that works pretty well. A daemon prince also might be alright. I would give him the black mace but she would just disarm him. I suppose you could give the black mace and the axe of blind furry and she could chose to be:
hit on 4s wounded on 2s by 5+d6 attacks or
hit on 4s wounded on 2s by 5+d6 attacks

If the DP is your warlord he has a 16% change of having hatred the first round.

She would hit him on 3s wound on 5s with shred and then the DP would get a 5++. Not sure she can survive long enough to do much damage to the DP.

The DP has Smash. Run him naked and you still mop the floor with Jain Zar. But isn't a naked DP more expensive than a naked DK?

Bharring wrote:
The DP has Smash. Run him naked and you still mop the floor with Jain Zar. But isn't a naked DP more expensive than a naked DK?

probably. Perhaps a tzeench herald can summon a DP or thirster? Im not up on the daemon stuff.

Sevrin loth with iron arm,warp speed and endurance
Has a force axe (and handy bolt pistol)
Has a 2+/2++
175 points

 Desubot wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:
Herald of Nurgle, FNP Loci, greater and lesser Etherblade 100pts

Str5 T5, 5++, FNP and master-crafted on both weapons.

Zan chooses to take away the greater Etherblade, so the Herald needs 5's to hit (reduced to WS1), with one re-roll per turn and 3's to wound (no saves as ap2).

4 attacks at st 4 shred at 3s to hit will probably get through faster than you will be able to get to her i think.

Yeah, not agreeing with you on this one.

First up if she's using disarming strike she loses an attack (so 3 attacks not 4), if she doesn't then the Herald gets +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons and is wounding on 2's not 3's (the greater blade is also +1 str as well as mastercrafted).

Assuming Zan uses disarming strike to remove the greater etherblade

Zan striking (3 attacks) 3x(2/3)x(5/9)x(2/3)x(2/3)= 40/81 wounds

Herald striking back (3 attacks) 3 x (1/3) x(2/3)=2/3 wounds (not sure how to fact in the re-roll to hit from master-crafted, regardless 2/3 > 40/81)

If Zan doesn't use disarming strike

Zan striking (4 attacks) 4x(2/3)x(5/9)x(2/3)x(2/3)= 160/243 wounds

Herald striking back (4 attacks) 3 x (1/3) x (5/6)=5/6 wounds (again I'm not sure how to fact in the re-roll to hit from master-crafted, but again regardless 5/6 > 160/243).

The fact is Zan has no save against an etherblade (ap2 at int), where as the Herald has the benefit of higher toughess to wound, then 2 levels of saves (yeah I know FNP isn't technically a save) having a 1/3 chance twice to block the hits from Zan.

I think kharn would be a good contender.

If she can't kill him in 1 round of combat he will for sure kill her in one round.

2+ to hit and 2+ to wound with no saves.

Kharn will at least get a 5+ invuln, and the plasma pistol could get a wound or two as well.

 Exergy wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Nurgle biker Lord, two Power Fists and whatever the 4++ Wargear is (Aura of Dark Glory?) Not a ton of attacks, but between MoN and a bike he gets T6, so Jain is only wounding on 6s and even with Shred that's not good odds. Conversely, he'll be wounding on 2s, so should finish her over a few rounds. No idea on cost, or if Chaos have any relics that could help.

that works pretty well. A daemon prince also might be alright. I would give him the black mace but she would just disarm him. I suppose you could give the black mace and the axe of blind furry and she could chose to be:
hit on 4s wounded on 2s by 5+d6 attacks or
hit on 4s wounded on 2s by 5+d6 attacks

If the DP is your warlord he has a 16% change of having hatred the first round.

She would hit him on 3s wound on 5s with shred and then the DP would get a 5++. Not sure she can survive long enough to do much damage to the DP.

Don't think you can have both the Black Mace and the Axe of Blind Fury on one character as you have "exchange" a weapon for those relics and the DP only has one weapon to exchange :(

To be honest, the guaranteed "you can't use your melee weapon against me" seems a bit over the top to me. Seems almost nothing except tailored characters running around with double power fists will be able to touch her in a challenge. I look at these rules and then look at my codex's "duelist" Lucius and just shake my head.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Konrax wrote:
I think kharn would be a good contender.

If she can't kill him in 1 round of combat he will for sure kill her in one round.

2+ to hit and 2+ to wound with no saves.

Kharn will at least get a 5+ invuln, and the plasma pistol could get a wound or two as well.

Kharn would be punked as he couldn't use gorechild so she would get her saves

They have the same weaponskill so it would come down to a straight roll off for disarming strike.

I think he stands a decent chance still

lustigjh wrote:
I vote for Lelith Hesperax in the challenge. Stats are 9 9 3 3 3 9 6 9. She ignores armor innately, rerolls To Hit and To Wound, and has a 3++ in combat. She only costs 150 points to boot.

I also pick Lelith. Funny enough, Both have crazy hair. So this could be a 70's throw back duel. (or was it 80's?)

Plenty of options here can beat her in a duel. And plenty of them cost substantially less than she does. The question is can anyone do it for cheaper than 120pts (she's 200).

 CaptainJay wrote:


Yeah, not agreeing with you on this one.

First up if she's using disarming strike she loses an attack (so 3 attacks not 4), if she doesn't then the Herald gets +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons and is wounding on 2's not 3's (the greater blade is also +1 str as well as mastercrafted).

Assuming Zan uses disarming strike to remove the greater etherblade

Zan striking (3 attacks) 3x(2/3)x(5/9)x(2/3)x(2/3)= 40/81 wounds

Herald striking back (3 attacks) 3 x (1/3) x(2/3)=2/3 wounds (not sure how to fact in the re-roll to hit from master-crafted, regardless 2/3 > 40/81)

If Zan doesn't use disarming strike

Zan striking (4 attacks) 4x(2/3)x(5/9)x(2/3)x(2/3)= 160/243 wounds

Herald striking back (4 attacks) 3 x (1/3) x (5/6)=5/6 wounds (again I'm not sure how to fact in the re-roll to hit from master-crafted, but again regardless 5/6 > 160/243).

The fact is Zan has no save against an etherblade (ap2 at int), where as the Herald has the benefit of higher toughess to wound, then 2 levels of saves (yeah I know FNP isn't technically a save) having a 1/3 chance twice to block the hits from Zan.

Well cant argue with that. so bar has been lowered to 100 points.

 Konrax wrote:
They have the same weaponskill so it would come down to a straight roll off for disarming strike.

I think he stands a decent chance still

Disarming Strike is now automatic, no roll is needed. Also, Kharn has -5 WS (so he would hit Jain Zar on 5+) because of JZ's super-mask.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
They have the same weaponskill so it would come down to a straight roll off for disarming strike.

I think he stands a decent chance still

Disarming Strike is now automatic, no roll is needed. Also, Kharn has -5 WS (so he would hit Jain Zar on 5+) because of JZ's super-mask.

Actually, Kharn auto-hits on a 2+ regardless of his own or his opponent's weapon skill due to Gorechild's special rule. I believe the special weapon's rules remain in place, as even though he can't actually use the weapon itself against her, the weapon doesn't say only attacks made from Gorechild get the auto-hit 2+ bonus. Though this doesn't change the fact that Jain Zar would tear him to shreds.

 Konrax wrote:
I think kharn would be a good contender.

If she can't kill him in 1 round of combat he will for sure kill her in one round.

2+ to hit and 2+ to wound with no saves.

Kharn will at least get a 5+ invuln, and the plasma pistol could get a wound or two as well.

she will take away his Axe and then he will only be fighting with a plasma pistol.

2+ to hit, 4+ to wound, then she gets a 2+ save.

She will butcher him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
They have the same weaponskill so it would come down to a straight roll off for disarming strike.

I think he stands a decent chance still

Disarming Strike is now automatic, no roll is needed. Also, Kharn has -5 WS (so he would hit Jain Zar on 5+) because of JZ's super-mask.

Actually, Kharn auto-hits on a 2+ regardless of his own or his opponent's weapon skill due to Gorechild's special rule. I believe the special weapon's rules remain in place, as even though he can't actually use the weapon itself against her, the weapon doesn't say only attacks made from Gorechild get the auto-hit 2+ bonus. Though this doesn't change the fact that Jain Zar would tear him to shreds.

but gorechild is a weapon, that he will not be able to use......

Punked even harder


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JubbJubbz wrote:


To be honest, the guaranteed "you can't use your melee weapon against me" seems a bit over the top to me. Seems almost nothing except tailored characters running around with double power fists will be able to touch her in a challenge. I look at these rules and then look at my codex's "duelist" Lucius and just shake my head.

It would be fine if it wasnt COMBINED on a character with Str4 T4, 2+ save -5WS and Init, and an AP2 at init weapon.

I was going to suggest the Swarmlord for the Tyranids, then I remembered he's slow and she has EW.

:(

 Grimskul wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
They have the same weaponskill so it would come down to a straight roll off for disarming strike.

I think he stands a decent chance still

Disarming Strike is now automatic, no roll is needed. Also, Kharn has -5 WS (so he would hit Jain Zar on 5+) because of JZ's super-mask.

Actually, Kharn auto-hits on a 2+ regardless of his own or his opponent's weapon skill due to Gorechild's special rule. I believe the special weapon's rules remain in place, as even though he can't actually use the weapon itself against her, the weapon doesn't say only attacks made from Gorechild get the auto-hit 2+ bonus. Though this doesn't change the fact that Jain Zar would tear him to shreds.

Jain Zar completely removes the weapon from the user's wargear list:

Before rolling To Hit whilst in a challenge, Jain Zar can choose to nominate one of her opponent’s melee weapons. Her opponent counts as not being equipped with that weapon until the end of the phase.

It isn't just "can't attack with that weapon".

Cheapest? I'm going with a dark harlequin troupe master with the warlord trait that lets him auto kill someone that kills him in a challenge on a 4(?)+. You only get the trait 1/6th of the time (ignoring warlord trait rerolls), and even then, it only works half the time, so I'm losing points for reliability. That said, I just gave you 50/50 odds of taking out dear Jain at the low-low price of 35 points. ^_^