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 BrotherGecko wrote:
I honestly would rather see a straight dedication to only RW/DW with a blurb about a chapter tactics and access to DA artifacts for the green boyz and a use CSM.

Maybe its because since 4th edition I've used CSM for my green DA. I see no reason to reprint CSM and change the names and omit a bunch of stuff that DA would have as much access to as every other chapter. Then just plob some stuff about over costed bikes and terminators (because its a safe bet that will likely happen).

I wonder if DW/RW will actually be made interesting. I wonder if WS will eventually get a formation that will erode away any reason to play RW. I wonder if the only reason the DA codex will be playable is because we will end up buying a color changed CSM.

Hopefully they won't repeat the mistake of making DA the anti-C:SMs.

Wait, so you're the guy we've been hunting all this while?

I'm happy dark angels being anti chaos marine, I'd infact rake it a step further and make them anti chaos deamons too, walking the line between damnation and salvation, if the leadership thing works on deamons for instability tests then I'd be happy with just that, with the pandorax books and audio book we can see they know plenty on how to fight and beat chaos as a whole, not just the marine element.

Time to dust off my Ravenwing. We ride again!

CrashGordon94 wrote:
^I had one with an Assault Cannon and Flamer-Fist, and another with a Lascannon and Missile Launcher, don't really think they'd like to share a squad.

That was exactly my setup too before C:SM came out, but now that we can take units I bought another TLLC and ML so I can have 2x TLLC and ML Dreads sitting in the back taking out heavy targets.

 Formosa wrote:
I'm happy dark angels being anti chaos marine, I'd infact rake it a step further and make them anti chaos deamons too, walking the line between damnation and salvation, if the leadership thing works on deamons for instability tests then I'd be happy with just that, with the pandorax books and audio book we can see they know plenty on how to fight and beat chaos as a whole, not just the marine element.

Sure, the same way any Marine chapter can take on Chaos Daemons.

The schtick, if you read the codex, for Dark Angels is that they are hunting CSM. In particular, fallen DA. That's literally their entire thing and pretty much the backstory for all their lore. It's why Interrogator-Chaplains are even a thing.

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
Time to dust off my Ravenwing. We ride again!

I feel ya, bro! Time for me to dust off my Unforgiven as well. For the Lion!

CrashGordon94 wrote:

TheNewBlood wrote:Inb4 Dark Angels are better than vanilla marines. Though it would be funny to see Unforgiven Tacs in blue, or White Scars proxied as Ravenwing.

Handily enough, there's a successor with the right color scheme for that!

Thats bone, not white. Wouldn't work for white scars :p

I've actually ran my terminators as Deathwing since the last codex (which I really like other than them being over costed) came out with surprisingly good results. With the points drop to vanilla terms and buff to scouts I am really curious how DW turn out because it will determine which codex I use.

35pt deathwing terminators would be awsome, but gw will price them at 38 because of the plethora of situational rules they have, fearless is meh, deathwing assault is excellent and probably worth the 35pts mark anyway, prefered enemy chaos space marines is also somewhat meh due to being very situational, add 10pts for th/ss and we're back to the overcosted nonsense of the last book, now dw knights are 46/7 points, drop them to 40 and we're golden as the one shot smite is meh, also I'm hoping the maces don't just get the smite usr, while it will make the maces ap2, 1 attack at str10 doesn't seem worth it... Maybe.

Bob liel needs to drop to 150pts of get eternal warrior, I'd happily lose that on Sammy as bob should be the beastick, we also should have access to an eternal warrior upgrade like all the codexs seem to have gotten so far, bar eldar I think?

What I'd find most interesting is if we keep the dakka banner, they allow it for storm bolters, as that coupled with the 35pt terminator would pretty much be spot on for dark angels theme of dakka over cc.

I just popped open my White Dwarf, and saw the Lion's Blade (DA Core-Cmd-Aux). Been too busy to check web rumors

They sure are stingy on librarians. Unless I'm missing something, there's only 2 ways you can get librarians:

- Command, which you can have 1/demi Company, and you may choose ONE of - Azrael, Belial, Sammael, Sableclaw, Company Master, Interrogator Chaplain, Asmodai, or Librarian or Ezekiel.

- Deathwing Redemption force, wher eyou have to take a minimum of 2-4 DW Terminator squads to get 1 Librarian (or Belial, Company Master, or Interrogator Chaplain).

So if you're not playing DWT, you are likely to have 0-1 librarian (max 2, if you want no other HQs). if you are, you're likely to have 1-2 (max 3)? O.o

Is that kinda crazy or what?

Also... where is the Ravenwing Command on the Lion's blade diagram? I must be getting blind in my old age or something. Not sure where RW Black Knights go either. And, which kit does the dreadnought from the Battle-Demi-Company (Zephon's Host) come from?

Other than DV and some odd models here and there, neither I nor any of my buddies play DA, so pardon my ignorance

 Talys wrote:

They sure are stingy on librarians. Unless I'm missing something, there's only 2 ways you can get librarians:

Librarius Conclave is still a Dark Angels formation.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Talys wrote:

They sure are stingy on librarians. Unless I'm missing something, there's only 2 ways you can get librarians:

Librarius Conclave is still a Dark Angels formation.

Oh, but it doesn't serve as an Auxiliary? Cool, and funky.

Guys, if nothing else, the fact that DW Command Squads, RW Command Squads and Black Knights are not present on the Lions blade diagram indicates that there will either be additional formations or you'll still be able to take CAD.

Nothing that I've seen precludes the use of CAD.

So unless the benefits for demi company are strong (e.g. the same level of SM full battle company strength), and we don't even know what the benefits are of this formation, only the FOC drawbacks, you may not even be inclined to take them anyway.

There's also no confirmation that you can't still do FOC shifts a la Belial and Sammael/Azrael.

@TedNugent - Yeah, for sure. But the exciting thing about the new edition codex releases now are the core-auxiliary-command formations, right? Also, the substitutions are in the superscripted numbers (note that you can substitute in the command, but not in the auxiliary). I'll take a quick pic of the English copy, since all I see on previous pages are German and French.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what I'm talking about --

Ok so from that pic I'm guessing a few things here.

1: ravenwing bike sqauds are now just bikes, no option to take a land speeder or attack bike.
2: attack bikes are a sqaud of their own.
3: ditto with the land speeder, that hasnt changed.

So I'm thinking with this formation you basically get what our old attack sqaud used to be, this makes sense as the black knights only hang around with the inner circle, so not being in a demi company makes sense to me.

it's limited, but I kind of like the fluffiness of it. The presence of a member of the inner circle indicates that there is a possibility of a fallen member in the enemy force.

But overall, I'm not overthrilled with the auxiliary choices for this formation, the Hammer of caliban is odd and the Deathwing redemption Force is very pricey (much like the wraith host for Eldar). But I will be holding any real judgement until I see the whole thing.

@ Formosa, if you look at the army shown in the example, it still looks like the ravenwing sqd can still take a land speeder and attack bike

Hmmm, after I mention that Dreadnought issue, just noticed that there's a unit in the Battle Demi-Company as well...
Though that had me wondering, the Deathwing bit has a Venerable Dread unit, and the main one just says "Dreadnoughts", does that mean the latter can't be made Venerable?

Just a thought guys......are we sure that all of the auxiliary choices in the WD is all that are available for the Lion's Blade force? The reason I say this is that the army example on the following pages shows a Ravenwing attack Squadron (named that too) with 6 bikes, attack bike and landspeeder.

What is missing compared to C:SM's Gladius is that it doesn't say, for example:

"1 Assault Squad, Bike Squad, Attack Bike Squad, unit of Land Speeder or Centurion Assault Squad".

Also, in the Battle Demi-Company, the Captain/Chaplain has no substitutions (for example, Vulkan or Grimaldus); instead, you can only take those in the Command slot. And I think their command options look weak (because you can only take 1 model per demi-company). And of course, there is no mention of Centurions anywhere, so I guess that's out

Of course, this might be different in the actual codex. But I mean, this isn't some random leak; it's the actual WD before the codex drop.

I don't think the preview Gladius had substitutions did it?

Pretty sure half that chart is missing in the WD... I'd wager on more formations being on the codex.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Pretty sure half that chart is missing in the WD... I'd wager on more formations being on the codex.

exactly what i was thinking...

The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DW CAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.

What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?

Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?

 Brillow80 wrote:
The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DW CAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.

What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?

Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?

Free land raiders

JuniorRS13 wrote:

 Brillow80 wrote:
The Deathwing Redemption Force is nothing that couldn't be taken before in a 6th edition DW CAD, was points heavy, and not very effective.

What do you think, based on the formation USR's GW has been handing out, would make a force like this usable?

Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?

Free land raiders

Not even Black Templars got that lucky.

 Brillow80 wrote:

Concerning RW I just had a scary thought...could it be possible that GW would remove Black Knights as a thing, making those bikes Command Squad options only!?

Both the Ravenwing Command Squad and the Black Knights are missing from the Lion's Blade, and the model is in the new battleforce, so no.

 bullyboy wrote:
it's limited, but I kind of like the fluffiness of it. The presence of a member of the inner circle indicates that there is a possibility of a fallen member in the enemy force.

It is not really that fluffy.

When you read the Vetock 6th ed DA codex, there's a part where Belial and Asmodai are talking about their pursuit of the fallen. And Belial says basically, you don't need to remind me of our mission. Because obviously Belial is a member of the Inner Circle as the First Company Master. In fact, the entire first Company is composed entirely of members of the Inner Circle.

Basically the bolter 'rines just open up with drop pods, the bikes show up and target their teleport homers for the Deathwing to take point, and not really a word is spoken of it.

Considering that all of the Ravenwing Black Knights and the entire 1st Company are members of the Inner Circle and routinely work together on operations against the Fallen, and the remainder of the Chapter is just battle chaff that isn't trusted with even knowledge of the mission, I think most of the real excursions against the Fallen would be conducted by the Deathwing with everyone else (particularly the Ravenwing) in a support role. Which is why the Deathwing-Belial FOC troop shift actually made the most sense.

It would really be a shame if they got rid of that. This lion's blade thing just looks like this was made up by some game designers as a tack-on modeled exactly on the basic C:SM demi company with some extra crap tacked on for the heck of it.

they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour. And besides, Black Knights are something added into the game by designers, they are not part of the original fluff and inner circle.

 bullyboy wrote:
they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour.

"Greetings, Grand Master Belial. I bring word from the clerestory dome; swift action may be required. The astropathic choir has picked up a distress call - a colony on Verdis Prime is under xenos attack and requests immediate aid. I also sense that our quarry may have landed there,' said Brother Valefor. 'Perhaps he hopes to escape us in the confusion of battle, or even make truck with the xenos."
[.]
"We can ill-afford to deviate from our mission, Brother Belial,' hissed Asmodai from behind his skull-mask. 'We must find the one once known as Brother Orias. The colonists will only serve to distract us.'"

Deathwing deployed, Fallen captured

"673.M36 Siege of Dominus Prime
The Dark Angels and Angels of Vengeance both deploy their entire 1st companies to end the five year deadlock against a rebel tyrant. Nigh on two hundred Terminators crack open the 'unassailable' fortress and massacre the traitors, save for those few who are taken to the Rock for questioning."

"104.M35 The Enemy Unmasked
The Dark Angels, following Cypher's trail, are led to believe that at least one member of the newly declared Ur-Council of Nova Terra is a Fallen Dark Angel. In a daring raid, a Ravenwing strike force lands upon Nova Terra but fails to secure any prisoners."

"After picking up the trail of Brother Solas, the entire Ravenwing deploys en masse [...]"
"The Ravenwing follow a trail that leads all the way to the Imperial Governor of Zambeque [...]"

"There is no underestimating the hard-hitting shock value the Deathwing and Ravenwing Companies bring to battle. While each is trained to perform a specific role - to seek out and destroy the Fallen - the formations have proven integral to all the chapter's missions, regardless of foe. Whether deploying for a surgical, rapid strike or delivering a hammerblow assault, most Dark Angels forces include elements from both the Ravenwing and Deathwing." Here's some support for the demi company as it exists in the Lion's Blade.

"Although it is only known by the company's highest ranked officers - the Company Master and his Black Knight veteran squads - the Ravenwing's primary role is to hunt down and capture the Fallen. They are the relentless black-clad huntsmen that ride ahead of the rest of the Dark Angels, cutting out those who are targeted for capture."

"In the Veiled Region, the Dark Angels finally corner Hrakon, who takes refuge on a piratical port world. Seeking to ensure that none escape, the Dark Angels blockade the planet and unleash the entire Deathwing. Deploying in sequential teleportations, the Terminators prosecute an epic slaughter until only a single foe is left alive - Obidiah Hrakon - once a standard bearer for the Dark Angels Legion. Refusing to give up, Obidiah is subdued after a duel with the Master of the Deathwing and is transported back to the Rock."

 pretre wrote:
I don't think the preview Gladius had substitutions did it?

There was no preview . Just a paragraph of text.

On this one, the right column command unit has substitutions, but the core does not.

 TedNugent wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
they're not going to send the entire Ravenwing/Deathwing out over every possible rumour.

"Greetings, Grand Master Belial. I bring word from the clerestory dome; swift action may be required. The astropathic choir has picked up a distress call - a colony on Verdis Prime is under xenos attack and requests immediate aid. I also sense that our quarry may have landed there,' said Brother Valefor. 'Perhaps he hopes to escape us in the confusion of battle, or even make truck with the xenos."
[.]
"We can ill-afford to deviate from our mission, Brother Belial,' hissed Asmodai from behind his skull-mask. 'We must find the one once known as Brother Orias. The colonists will only serve to distract us.'"

Deathwing deployed, Fallen captured

??? not sure what you're trying to say.

anyway, I still feel it's a very fluffy inclusion. Greenwing will typically have very few members of the Inner Circle (Chapter masters etc) so appointing a single member of the Inner Circle for missions makes sense, and additional members may be added in extreme circumstances (Deathwing formation etc).
The "fluff" like most in 40K has changed over many years, but most of what i remember spans back to 3rd edition and before. still love the Deathwing story with the genestealer infestation.