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This is interesting.
With the leaks, you can have a Interrogator Chaplain with Mace of Redemption, Crozius and a freakin CML on its back.

Or a Librarian with a Force axe, a CML and an Assault Cannon.

Yea, mace of redemption. I am getting my genres flip flopped

 Thairne wrote:
This is interesting.
With the leaks, you can have a Interrogator Chaplain with Mace of Redemption, Crozius and a freakin CML on its back.

Or a Librarian with a Force axe, a CML and an Assault Cannon.

leaks from where?

Wonderwolf wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Full BS Overwatch is pathetically terrible compared to Objective Secured/Chapter Tactics.

Vanilla Marines get neither Objective Secured nor Chapter Tactics through the Gladius Strike Force. The GSF rule is the additional use of doctrines. That's the equivalent rule.

Does Objective Secured come from the Demi Company then?

In vanilla, yeah.

Ok then, assuming DA demicompanies get ObjSec, then full BS on overwatch is objectively worse than combat doctrines, but at least it's acceptable.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ok then, assuming DA demicompanies get ObjSec, then full BS on overwatch is objectively worse than combat doctrines, but at least it's acceptable.

Agreed, but it has the potential to become even better overtime when they redo Orks/Tyrannids codex and put a lot of assault spam oriented formation in it.

In my close combat heavy meta full bs overwatch is amazing, I can understand in a shooting meta or a tournament that it's not great but here... It's a bloody good bonus

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I find it HI...FFING...LARIOUS, that not even 15 min after the pre order of the codex went up it was sold out... REALY GW? no on will pre order this CODEX (DA nerds EXCL) untill they know it aint as gakky as the last one...

That's not true. Anyone willing to pay $165 for a LE is going to buy it anyways. I pre-ordered my regular DA codex & datacards at my FLGS like, a week ago, even though I probably won't ever put together a proper DA army. I mean, I just know I'm gonna want it, so might as well go on the list. They probably sell a dozen of every book like that (various people who reserve one before preorders even go up). The store is cool though; if you don't want it, you can always decline it and it's not like you're prepaying it or anything.

But anyways, my point was just that nobody who is paying 3x the price is doing so because the codex is powerful or weak; it's because they like Dark Angels, or want to own all the codex releases in Limited Edition.

The point is that full BS overwatch is completely disgusting against assault armies, useless against anything else.

F it, I'm pre-ordering. I only need an assault squad to get the single demi bonus with the models I have. I'm not buying any Razorbacks though, I'll be living in a cardboard box in a year.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ok then, assuming DA demicompanies get ObjSec, then full BS on overwatch is objectively worse than combat doctrines, but at least it's acceptable.

It's not "acceptable," it's either gamebreakingly stupid or it's useless, it's one or the other. It'll just dig the grave deeper for assault, so it's less of a thing for DA than it is for other armies. And as far as DA, at least it's not as bad as "Stubborn," which was just always useless.

Pre-orders are up in the usa

Preorders are up in canada, looks like I had a moment of weakness and bought the LE dex

I bought my book today, can't wait to get it.

Was wondering whether to take the limited or the standard codex. I took the standard codex and took instead the new Dark Angels battleforce to boost my Ravenwing.

More bang for the buck that way that I will actually use. 200$ CAD for a book with gimmick just did not cut it even though I have the money hehe.

 Thairne wrote:
This is interesting.
With the leaks, you can have a Interrogator Chaplain with Mace of Redemption, Crozius and a freakin CML on its back.

Or a Librarian with a Force axe, a CML and an Assault Cannon.

What makes you assume that characters have access to Terminator Heavy Weapons?

Somehow I got 'release' confused with 'pre-order' so I got all excited for today then realised it was just the pre-order. Bollocks.

Don't forget the Legion also has the Standard of Devastation so you'll be overwatching with what, forty bolter shots to the face from a tac squad? twenty-four twin-linked bolter shots from a Ravenwing squad?

Terrific.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Don't forget the Legion also has the Standard of Devastation so you'll be overwatching with what, forty bolter shots to the face from a tac squad? twenty-four twin-linked bolter shots from a Ravenwing squad?

Terrific.

There's only a generic Sacred standard for 35 pts now - I doubt it will have such special rules.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
This is interesting.
With the leaks, you can have a Interrogator Chaplain with Mace of Redemption, Crozius and a freakin CML on its back.

Or a Librarian with a Force axe, a CML and an Assault Cannon.

What makes you assume that characters have access to Terminator Heavy Weapons?

Stupidity most likely. D'uh.

Just walked into my local GW and pre-ordered. They said I was the first one of the day. Lol.

Store manager didn't even know it was out today.

Edit: Is the decurion really that great? BS4 vs BS2 overwatch....

Compared to - being able to choose what units you want, obsec on troops, free choice of HQ slot (eg moar Librarians)?

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Don't forget the Legion also has the Standard of Devastation so you'll be overwatching with what, forty bolter shots to the face from a tac squad? twenty-four twin-linked bolter shots from a Ravenwing squad?

Terrific.

There's only a generic Sacred standard for 35 pts now - I doubt it will have such special rules.

Where did you get this information?

Like the guy going on about CMLs on Interrogator chaps?

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/dark-angel-pre-orders-are-live-ibook.html

IBook Previews

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ok then, assuming DA demicompanies get ObjSec, then full BS on overwatch is objectively worse than combat doctrines, but at least it's acceptable.

Agreed, but it has the potential to become even better overtime when they redo Orks/Tyrannids codex and put a lot of assault spam oriented formation in it.

In before redone Tyranids get an immune to Overwatch formation involving Hormagaunts.

But yeah, full BS overwatch is a bit....odd. It's pretty much the final nail in the coffin for Chaos and Orks, not so much for Tyranids (who assaults with Tyranids anyway?) and probably not so much for Dark Eldar (Battle Brother Eldar allies yo).

I'm just glad I switched to Eldar a while back. End of the day my Chaos are shelved until we see something resembling an actual book, my Tyranids are on hiatus til the urge to paint and do something with them takes me (probably if they ever get a new Codex) and my Flesh Tearers...well, kinda fizzled out because now Blood Angels are the redheaded step-chapter.

GW seems to like pushing vehicle squadrons a lot though. (Eldar, SM, DA) - between that, the inclusion of Super Heavies, the inclusion of Psychic Powers that use Apocalypse templates and formations it's like they've tried to condense down Apocalypse...which of course is making balance hell on a competitive level.

Just when we reached a state of Equilibrium they changed the alternative detachments to stacked bonus formations. (Necrons onward).
Then they brought D weapon spam. (Eldar)
Then they brought 'free' upgrades which can add a hefty amount to an army's 'point' value. (HI DOUBLE DEMI COMPANIES).

I feel sorry for tournament organisers.

The discrepancy between the last 'old style' SM codex (Blood Angels) and the new SM codex in structure is ridiculous - especially when you consider they're both 7th ed. codexes.
The discrepancy between the first 6th ed book (CSM) and the most recent 7th ed book is even greater...

Sigh. One day they'll have a consistent structure and plan for codex releases. One day we'll have an edition where, partway through a 'power' arms race DOESN'T occur.

Reclusiam Edition (English) is sold out in Canada

Really hope that Ravenwing are Worth it, being that is the only DA I play. If it seems horrible or not worth it, I'll just dremel and repaint them as white scars. With funds being lower than usual, It is hard to buy more codex than normal. Just bought the SM one for my imperial fists, and now this one is needed for me to keep playing them. thats $120 more than I thought I would have had to pay to play this year for my gaming budget.

Oh, god. Looks like it has the same relics, so I hope they changed their rules, because the old relics sucked.

Belial gained an extra attack. Looks like he still sucks though. Note, he has marked for retribution and tactical precision in the old dex. The special rule that changed is they changed "Deathwing assault" to "Deathwing," whatever that means. Same excessive points too.

At least Foe Smiter went down in points, lol.

Also, lol@ the hunt being back. Starting to regret my preorder already.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

Agreed, but it has the potential to become even better overtime when they redo Orks/Tyrannids codex and put a lot of assault spam oriented formation in it.

In before redone Tyranids get an immune to Overwatch formation involving Hormagaunts.

They'd literally have to. They have to at this point.

Shroud of hero's dropped 40 pts down to 10, if it has the same rules as it did before its actual worth a look now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TedNugent wrote:
Oh, god. Looks like it has the same relics, so I hope they changed their rules, because the old relics sucked.

Belial gained an extra attack. Looks like he still sucks though.

At least Foe Smiter went down in points, lol.

Also, lol@ the hunt being back. Starting to regret my preorder already.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

Agreed, but it has the potential to become even better overtime when they redo Orks/Tyrannids codex and put a lot of assault spam oriented formation in it.

In before redone Tyranids get an immune to Overwatch formation involving Hormagaunts.

They'd literally have to. They have to at this point.

I doubt immunity, more likely a boost to toughness or something.

So has everyone here heard about interromancy yet?

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 A Watcher In The Dark wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Ok then, assuming DA demicompanies get ObjSec, then full BS on overwatch is objectively worse than combat doctrines, but at least it's acceptable.

Agreed, but it has the potential to become even better overtime when they redo Orks/Tyrannids codex and put a lot of assault spam oriented formation in it.

In before redone Tyranids get an immune to Overwatch formation involving Hormagaunts.

But yeah, full BS overwatch is a bit....odd. It's pretty much the final nail in the coffin for Chaos and Orks, not so much for Tyranids (who assaults with Tyranids anyway?) and probably not so much for Dark Eldar (Battle Brother Eldar allies yo).

I'm just glad I switched to Eldar a while back. End of the day my Chaos are shelved until we see something resembling an actual book, my Tyranids are on hiatus til the urge to paint and do something with them takes me (probably if they ever get a new Codex) and my Flesh Tearers...well, kinda fizzled out because now Blood Angels are the redheaded step-chapter.

GW seems to like pushing vehicle squadrons a lot though. (Eldar, SM, DA) - between that, the inclusion of Super Heavies, the inclusion of Psychic Powers that use Apocalypse templates and formations it's like they've tried to condense down Apocalypse...which of course is making balance hell on a competitive level.

Just when we reached a state of Equilibrium they changed the alternative detachments to stacked bonus formations. (Necrons onward).
Then they brought D weapon spam. (Eldar)
Then they brought 'free' upgrades which can add a hefty amount to an army's 'point' value. (HI DOUBLE DEMI COMPANIES).

I feel sorry for tournament organisers.

The discrepancy between the last 'old style' SM codex (Blood Angels) and the new SM codex in structure is ridiculous - especially when you consider they're both 7th ed. codexes.
The discrepancy between the first 6th ed book (CSM) and the most recent 7th ed book is even greater...

Sigh. One day they'll have a consistent structure and plan for codex releases. One day we'll have an edition where, partway through a 'power' arms race DOESN'T occur.

Blood angels will take very little work to bring them in line with the new book, just change all the angel specific units to match the space marine one, let them use space marine formations in the interim, though that one may be a little more difficult, basically a tiny bit of effort.

They'd need one hell of a boost to toughness. You can't even get there at this point. I mean, ork boyz have AV10 open topped transports and you can only take 12 Orks. By the time you got done resolving overwatch, there'd be nothing left to fight the combat with. Then you strike at initiative 2, lol.

http://gyazo.com/16fe44714fde04a53986a8ee57b72b74

http://gyazo.com/81185cfb4a585eb6baca4fd2d9b6be98

Don't know if these have been posted, but Dark Angels can now reduce your best unit to WS1 BS1 permanently. They can also rig your leadership test so the unit is doomed to fail it.

Now excuse me as I go off and laugh maniacally at all the ways I could horribly maul people's lists by turning their best unit into a blind cripple.

No pfg listed in the special issue wargear :(