Dark Angels 2015 - All Info & Pics in the first post

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**Crazyterran**

How many points are Black Knights now? 40pts seems like a lot.

**CrashGordon94**

Ghaz wrote:
Just because it was necessary for one army to do so doesn't make it necessary for other armies. The Deathwing Detachment does not have Troops, Fast Attack or Heavy Support slots. That's why Deathwing are not Troops.

OR they could keep the old option and give the new option too, how about that?
Honestly I'd rather stick with "X as Troops" than these new formations given the chance, much simpler and more flexible. No reason not to at least have the OPTION to do it...

**axisofentropy**

Crazyterran wrote:
How many points are Black Knights now? 40pts seems like a lot.

They are, and that's two points cheaper than the previous codex' FA entry (same as RW Command Squad)

**Ghaz**

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Just because it was necessary for one army to do so doesn't make it necessary for other armies. The Deathwing Detachment does not have Troops, Fast Attack or Heavy Support slots. That's why Deathwing are not Troops.

OR they could keep the old option and give the new option too, how about that?
Honestly I'd rather stick with "X as Troops" than these new formations given the chance, much simpler and more flexible. No reason not to at least have the OPTION to do it...

So, you can't answer the question I asked and just want to complain. Gotcha.

**Warhams-77**

Closing this thread? Will there be a painting guide next week? There is at least another DA mission in the next White Dwarf which should get leaked tomorrow or on Wednesday. If there is nothing more then the thread could be closed imho.

**bullyboy**

CrashGordon94 wrote:
Ghaz wrote:
Just because it was necessary for one army to do so doesn't make it necessary for other armies. The Deathwing Detachment does not have Troops, Fast Attack or Heavy Support slots. That's why Deathwing are not Troops.

OR they could keep the old option and give the new option too, how about that?
Honestly I'd rather stick with "X as Troops" than these new formations given the chance, much simpler and more flexible. No reason not to at least have the OPTION to do it...

but that's what they are trying to get away from. If you want Terms as "Troops", you take the DW Strike Force. Yes, they don't get Obsec, but that is like so many forces now. If you want Obsec Troops...you go CAD. If you want special formation rules...then you don't get Obsec.

**Formosa**

I agree, no dw as troops is stupid, yes we can all try to justify it by saying "take cad, formations bla bla bla" but it's still idiotic, they have basically ignored dark angel players in the same way they ignore chaos players, chaos players have been wanting legions in the book somehow for 10 year ish, ignored, dark angels players wanted a hq that unlocks ravenwing and Deathwing as troops that isn't a special character, ignored.

That's why people thinks it's stupid, as it's so easily done, we can't understand why it hasn't been.

**CrashGordon94**

Ghaz wrote:So, you can't answer the question I asked and just want to complain. Gotcha.

No, I didn't see a question there. What question?

bullyboy wrote:but that's what they are trying to get away from. If you want Terms as "Troops", you take the DW Strike Force. Yes, they don't get Obsec, but that is like so many forces now. If you want Obsec Troops...you go CAD. If you want special formation rules...then you don't get Obsec.

And that's the thing, there's no reason to try and get away from it, it's perfectly fine! Why ditch a perfectly reasonable option like that?

**Lurker**

LOCK THE THREAD?
Why would you lock the thread? The Deathwing squad entry isn't up yet, is it? That's a pretty big deal.

WHITE SCARS Vs RAVENWING
To the guys debating White Scars Vs Ravening, White Scars don't get scout automatically. You have to pay for Khan to get it. Whether that is a good or a bad thing remains to be seen.

**Formosa**

Good point about khan, and str5 hammer of wrath while good, isn't something I'd like to use, bikes are best not getting close enough to be assaulted.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

To be fair the only reason they were made troops in previous editions was because that was the only way you could field them legally
before Unbound as your primary unit.

You can easily field a non-SC as your HQ unit and Deathwing and Ravenwing now. The overall organisation is far more orderly, if you think about it.

It's definitely codex Ravenwing again though. Greenwing got a buff but still are inferior to SM; Deathwing didn't get the necessary buffs to make them competitive.

**Warhams-77**

I was responding to AOV's post actually

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/900/649628.page#7923668

Yes, please keep this thread open @Mod Team

**CrashGordon94**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
To be fair the only reason they were made troops in previous editions was because that was the only way you could field them legally
before Unbound as your primary unit.

And still a more flexible and natural way than these awkward detachments.
Plus it's possible to have the FOC moving AND special formations!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Leaks don't (usually) kill the thread no matter how comprehensive,

The generally MODs wait until the official release (unless the natives get too restless)

**DarknessEternal**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

You can easily field a non-SC as your HQ unit and Deathwing and Ravenwing now.

Can you? Previous codex didn't allow a captain in Terminator Armor or on a bike.

**jokerkd**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

You can easily field a non-SC as your HQ unit and Deathwing and Ravenwing now.

Can you? Previous codex didn't allow a captain in Terminator Armor or on a bike.

Really?..........

**Asmodai Asmodean**

The RW and DW detachments have 3 HQ slots for Ravenwing and Deathwing Librarians and Chaplains. Not too sure about Company Master options, though.

**Nocturnus**

Spoletta wrote:
Nocturnus wrote:
So far Deathwing seem to be the weakest link thus far. Hopefully there's more to be revealed about them.

Weakest from the leaks, but possibly the most broken thing in the codex from the hints.

We could very well be looking at the following scenario:

Ravenwings turbo boost turn 1 into your deploy. They are close to immune to shooting that round.
Top of turn 2 DW knights and termies get DStriked in without scatter, shoot with split fire(maybe even run) and assault that same turn.
Bikes shoot at full Bs and assault.
Don't even want to think about Dreds doing the same thing (perfectly possible).

That could be the strongest beta strike army in the game.

Split Fire hasn't been confirmed. I guess we will have to wait for more leaks before rendering a final verdict.

**A Watcher In The Dark**

GW basicaly made my Dark Angels dream army codex when I started it a year ago. I had a full 5th company built since Christmas, but they were not fun to play under a CAD. So I started since them doing 1/3 or 1/2 company for the 1st ans 2nd so I could spice it up a bit. This is my edition

!

**Maelstrom808**

Looking at the entry for the generic hqs, it looks like you still can't take a bike and termy armor (as it should be), but they do not have the ravenwing special rule and taking a bike does not mention ravenwing in either the entry for the sc or under the entry for the bike in the wargear section. So what are we supposed to fill this HQ slots with other than Sammy and maybe a RW command squad?

**Slayer le boucher**

Brillow80 wrote:
Imagine, RW with scout and turbo boosting turn 1 with darkshroud support. 36" in your face with 3+ rerollable cover (2+ for black knights) firing at better than BS1 overwatch and full BS following turn. Such shenanigans!

Then the guy who plays KDK can come and say hello turn 1 since you came all the way and you can't assault, with models that have as much attacks per model, that you have models in your bikes units

.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

Maelstrom808 wrote:Looking at the entry for the generic hqs, it looks like you still can't take a bike and termy armor (as it should be), but they do not have the ravenwing special rule and taking a bike does not mention ravenwing in either the entry for the sc or under the entry for the bike in the wargear section. So what are we supposed to fill this HQ slots with other than Sammy and maybe a RW command squad?

What? They can take bikes or terminator armour, read carefully. They don't gain the Ravenwing special rule though they have Deathwing.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Brillow80 wrote:
Imagine, RW with scout and turbo boosting turn 1 with darkshroud support. 36" in your face with 3+ rerollable cover (2+ for black knights) firing at better than BS1 overwatch and full BS following turn. Such shenanigans!

Then the guy who plays KDK can come and say hello turn 1 since you came all the way and you can't assault, with models that have as much attacks per model, that you have models in your bikes units .

I'm fairly certain I can build a Black Knight deathstar with Conclave bikers that can easily roll any number of Daemonkin units from Hounds led by Juggerlords to Bloodthirsters, subject to getting the right powers off.

**Brillow80**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Brillow80 wrote:
Imagine, RW with scout and turbo boosting turn 1 with darkshroud support. 36" in your face with 3+ rerollable cover (2+ for black knights) firing at better than BS1 overwatch and full BS following turn. Such shenanigans!

Then the guy who plays KDK can come and say hello turn 1 since you came all the way and you can't assault, with models that have as much attacks per model, that you have models in your bikes units .

Holy Scroll say "stay thine black painted behind away from red demons with pointy sticks and feisty dispositions lest you find your way to the Emprah."

I did say "shenanigans" not necessarily "one trick pony"

**bullyboy**

DarknessEternal wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

You can easily field a non-SC as your HQ unit and Deathwing and Ravenwing now.

Can you? Previous codex didn't allow a captain in Terminator Armor or on a bike.

Deathwing Redemption Force indicates Company Master as option.....pretty sure a dude in termi armour is available as option.

**casvalremdeikun**

I wonder if taking a bike on a character will give them the Raven wing rule. Perhaps it is in the bike entry itself.

**Maelstrom808**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Maelstrom808 wrote:Looking at the entry for the generic hqs, it looks like you still can't take a bike and termy armor (as it should be), but they do not have the ravenwing special rule and taking a bike does not mention ravenwing in either the entry for the sc or under the entry for the bike in the wargear section. So what are we supposed to fill this HQ slots with other than Sammy and maybe a RW command squad?

What? They can take bikes or terminator armour, read carefully. They don't gain the Ravenwing special rule though they have Deathwing.

The first part was in response to another post that I apparently misread as implying that you could take termy armor and a bike at the same time.

I am aware of the deathwing bit, but I am focussed on the fact that at the moment, you can't take a libby or chaplain as part of the ravenwing strike force, which sucks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I wonder if taking a bike on a character will give them the Raven wing rule. Perhaps it is in the bike entry itself.

It is not. Currently Sammy and possibly Ravenwing Command Squads are the only available options for the Ravenwing Strike Force HQ slots.

**NamelessBard**

But it's pretty easy to put it as a blurb in the datasheet. Or have we seen those datasheets already?

**jokerkd**

Maelstrom808 wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Maelstrom808 wrote:Looking at the entry for the generic hqs, it looks like you still can't take a bike and termy armor (as it should be), but they do not have the ravenwing special rule and taking a bike does not mention ravenwing in either the entry for the sc or under the entry for the bike in the wargear section. So what are we supposed to fill this HQ slots with other than Sammy and maybe a RW command squad?

What? They can take bikes or terminator armour, read carefully. They don't gain the Ravenwing special rule though they have Deathwing.

The first part was in response to another post that I apparently misread as implying that you could take termy armor and a bike at the same time.

I am aware of the deathwing bit, but I am focussed on the fact that at the moment, you can't take a libby or chaplain as part of the ravenwing strike force, which sucks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I wonder if taking a bike on a character will give them the Raven wing rule. Perhaps it is in the bike entry itself.

It is not. Currently Sammy and possibly Ravenwing Command Squads are the only available options for the Ravenwing Strike Force HQ slots.

Does a unit have to have the ravenwing rule to be taken the detachment?

**bullyboy**

well I couldn't help myself. Local store still had one of the older Ravenwing Battleforce boxsets. Going to have a pretty decent Ravenwing force to start with now.

**Maelstrom808**

Here are the relevant entries:

Ravenwing Strike Force

Spoiler:

Libby, Chaplin, and Interrogator-Chaplain

Spoiler:

Ravenwing Bike Squad

Spoiler:

Space Marine Bike wargear entry

Spoiler:

So if you look at the Ravenwing Strike Force, it requires the ravenwing special for all units included in it. If you look at the Ravenwing bike squad, you can clearly see "Ravenwing" in the special rules. Then looking at the entries to the SCs and the Space Marine Bike entry, "Ravenwing" is not mentioned once.