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Hi Dakka!

My question is pretty self-explanatory. I am running a Deathwatch detachement and I am still looking for chapters to be represented in it. I also have some old Grey Knights on my shelf, and that's why I wanted to know whether or not these guys could be seconded to it.

I have never seen any GK in black power armor and I know they(re kind of special but do you think it could happen?

I don't think so. Grey Knights function very well outside of the normal call of Marine chapters. They are the functional military arm of the Ordo Malleus, whereas the Deathwatch belongs to the Ordo Xenos.

That said, I can't say for sure. I don't know if there's anything outside of the secret nature of Grey Knights that would say it is a certain impossibility.

Yeah that's what I thought in the first place. I guess you can always invent something to make it happen but I'd better stick to the fluff.

Thanks !

I would say not, but I have no evidence to back this up.
Even if the GK was to join the Deathwatch, they would need to surrender all their cool gear before joining, as every marine does.
Why would a GK join up anyway? It's not like the Grey Knights need extra xenos hunting skills, as they were mainly devised to be anathema to Chaos (not implying that GK don't fight xenos). And if they did want the training, they can requisition an Inquisitor or Watch Captain to give them some training, instead of going to them.
The Grey Knights are trained to a higher calibre than regular marines as well, so they should be able to handle xenos just fine.
The only other reason a GK could be sent to the Deathwatch is if they were insubordinate and disobeyed commands. However, in this situation, it is unlikely that:
a) The Grey Knight would disobey orders.
b) They would be allowed to leave alive, especially when they hold valuable intelligence and have shown that they are insubordinate rebellious scum. They would most likely be ritually executed.

TL;DR
I think not.

I see little reason for why not. Some Grey Knights end up in the Inquisition, so I think they could enter the Deathwatch as Black Shields.

Going from the description in the FFG Roleplaying Game:

A Grey Knight would not be inducted into the Deathwatch - i.e. you'd never see one in Deathwatch colours. It's rare but not unheard of to see a Grey Knight attached to a Deathwatch Kill-Team as an advisor or mission specialist, much like you might see an Inquisitor or Interrogator from a particular specialist ordo leading a Kill-Team, if the expected opposition required it. A kill-team mission whose target was a xenos sorceror might well be a combined operation - Deathwatch veterans infiltrating his base and disabling guards and defences to clear the way for a Grey Knight strike force to engage the sorceror and any daemonic familiars directly.

Said Grey Knight would never be in Deathwatch colours though.

That said, the actual colours of the Grey Knights - or at least one sanctioned variation on it - is black and is very similar in its colour scheme:

Ok thanks for quick answers. I'll definitely try this scheme on my guys, this could be nice!

Be aware that those colours have been outdated for many years now.

As best I can tell by the multitude of fluff I had read over the years including the novels:
They spend a lifetime in the study of killing daemons.

Being used for anything else is an extreme waste or potential waste of resources (if they get killed).

Their very name is changed so that they could potentially be the nemesis of a particular daemon.

Deathwatch is geared toward killing the alien, there is little opportunity for cross-over.
If the Orks find a way to have Gork or Mork team up with Khorn then it could get interesting.
<edit> Or Khaine discovers Khorn is a long lost brother (just look at their names!)
OR Tzeentch is the true "Trickster".

So a few possibilities there but don't hold out hope.

There is always the possibility of chaos worshipping xenos.

The problem is Grey Knights are super secret. I like the suggestion a Grey Knight might be attached as an advisor, rather than a true Death Watch marine. Even so I'd imagine the identity of the Grey Knight would be kept secret.

nareik wrote:
There is always the possibility of chaos worshipping xenos.

This. There are many known xenos with ties either to chaos directly or who have powerful enough psykers to draw the attention of chaos. The yu'vath, and the Laer being the ones I can think of off the top of my head, with the Enoulians and the Rak'gol having strong enough psykers to draw chaos attention.

The problem is Grey Knights are super secret. I like the suggestion a Grey Knight might be attached as an advisor, rather than a true Death Watch marine. Even so I'd imagine the identity of the Grey Knight would be kept secret.

Maybe, maybe not. Remember that all Deathwatch marines are sworn to secrecy to everything they take part in while part of the Deathwatch. If there is some level of post-Grey Knight purification to be done, it would be dealt with within the Watch Fortress.

That said, I agree that Grey Knights do not join the Deathwatch, however there's more than enough opportunity for the two to cooperate with one another. To say that xenos breeds and daemons don't overlap or interact is just silly.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
I see little reason for why not. Some Grey Knights end up in the Inquisition, so I think they could enter the Deathwatch as Black Shields.

A GK would never be a Blackshield, because the GK Chapter still exists. Blackshields are those Marines who are the sole survivors of their Chapters, or the final, remaining loyalist of a Chapter fallen to Heresy, or a CSM who has decided to repent. None of these things are situations the GK will ever find himself in.

The GK are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus of the Inquisition, though I've never heard of one becoming an Inquisitor in their own right. There's also the fact that the DW is intended to fight Xenos. The skill-set and abilities of the GK are only highly-effective against aliens on the table-top. In the fluff, all the psychic powers and psychic wargear is fairly gak against your regular space-born gribbly.

 Psienesis wrote:
In the fluff, all the psychic powers and psychic wargear is fairly gak against your regular space-born gribbly.

Debatable. It's specialised against Daemons and so far more efficient and effective against them. However, the Grey Knight release WD mentions that sometimes hostile aliens pop up in their way, in which case the GK occasionally decide to take a stop and kick some alien butt before moving on.

Yes, but that's primarily with bolters. If you've got psycannons and non-psychic foes, it's a waste of incredibly-rare ammo. Your regular SM weaponry is going to more than suffice... and, in such a situation, what's important is that the GK are Space Marines who happen to be psykers. Any other Chapter could fulfill the mission requirements as well.

Psychic powers such as Hammerhand remains useful for crushing ork skulls as well.

If your team of 5 GK has allowed themselves to get into melee with Orks, you've made grievous tactical errors, considering that you're probably outnumbered 1000 to 1.

Wouldn't they just immolate them? That could be a valid tactic for the Grey Knights.

Only if the tanks on your flamer are somehow limitless.

 Psienesis wrote:
Only if the tanks on your flamer are somehow limitless.

I believe he is thinking of Cleansing Flame.

Grey Knights have a very powerful weapon against hordes.

I was referring to the Holocaust-ability. That would be a very valid way of holding off an Ork-horde up close.

Oh yeah, Holocaust as well. GK has no shortage of psychic firesplosions to lay waste to hordes with.

I guess I was saying it is like using a wrench as a hammer: sure, it works, just not the right tool for the job.
Their number is limited and these diversions are not easily justified.
Sure, xenos dabbles in demonic and threatens humanity: they will be there and Deathwatch possibly as well.
It would make an interesting team up of convenience but highly doubt it would be arranged unless the GK high council rep catches wind of something.

Bringing along a Grey knight Librarian and the fun would be like what psychic powers the majority of the hapless Orks would die of. I mean you can throw them into the Warp through rift and vortex. Maybe summon up a few demons to fight for you. You can use electricity through smiting. And I'm quite certain they have a host of other powers they can have much fun with.

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Bringing along a Grey knight Librarian and the fun would be like what psychic powers the majority of the hapless Orks would die of. I mean you can throw them into the Warp through rift and vortex. Maybe summon up a few demons to fight for you. You can use electricity through smiting. And I'm quite certain they have a host of other powers they can have much fun with.

Why Grey Knights in particular though? Regular Librarians can already do a variety of psychic abilities, and I'm not sure whether or not you're kidding or not on summoning daemons because that would be anathema to what the Grey Knights are. Even normal Librarians aren't authorised to do so and why would they? They're trained to constantly keep their minds warded against warp predators, the last thing you'd want to do is manifest it in the materium and potentially threaten yourself and your battle brothers.

Given that Grey Knights are already incredibly limited in number and stretched thin to oppose the various daemonic incursions across the Imperium, I can't really see them being attached to the Deathwatch officially. At most they might have a passing co-operation in the case of a significant (i.e. mass scale) daemonic incursion but at that point the Deathwatch would pull out and authority would be given to the Grey Knights and their respective Inquisitors.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Bringing along a Grey knight Librarian and the fun would be like what psychic powers the majority of the hapless Orks would die of. I mean you can throw them into the Warp through rift and vortex. Maybe summon up a few demons to fight for you. You can use electricity through smiting. And I'm quite certain they have a host of other powers they can have much fun with.

Why Grey Knights in particular though? Regular Librarians can already do a variety of psychic abilities, and I'm not sure whether or not you're kidding or not on summoning daemons because that would be anathema to what the Grey Knights are. Even normal Librarians aren't authorised to do so and why would they? They're trained to constantly keep their minds warded against warp predators, the last thing you'd want to do is manifest it in the materium and potentially threaten yourself and your battle brothers.

Given that Grey Knights are already incredibly limited in number and stretched thin to oppose the various daemonic incursions across the Imperium, I can't really see them being attached to the Deathwatch officially. At most they might have a passing co-operation in the case of a significant (i.e. mass scale) daemonic incursion but at that point the Deathwatch would pull out and authority would be given to the Grey Knights and their respective Inquisitors.

The subject was Grey Knights, and they fight whatever there is be it demon or not even though they prefer demons. I don't see them working for long with Deathwatch unless they think something really nasty is brewing or infiltrating, plus members have been known to leave the chapter in order to become Inquisitors.

Plus I was responding to Ashiraya and making good points as Grey Knight Librarians can do all that.

And your last spot is bull, the Deathwatch frequently has fought demons as well with the Grey knights as if Ordo Malleus ask for help you basically do their bidding and then they return to the long watch. Being equipped for something doesn't mean you fight that as Gregor Eisenhorn show. He is a guy that is Ordo Xenos yet fights mainly the Ruinous Powers.

EDIT: Plus Space Marines only withdraw if they are planning to nuke the crap out of something.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:
Bringing along a Grey knight Librarian and the fun would be like what psychic powers the majority of the hapless Orks would die of. I mean you can throw them into the Warp through rift and vortex. Maybe summon up a few demons to fight for you. You can use electricity through smiting. And I'm quite certain they have a host of other powers they can have much fun with.

Why Grey Knights in particular though? Regular Librarians can already do a variety of psychic abilities, and I'm not sure whether or not you're kidding or not on summoning daemons because that would be anathema to what the Grey Knights are. Even normal Librarians aren't authorised to do so and why would they? They're trained to constantly keep their minds warded against warp predators, the last thing you'd want to do is manifest it in the materium and potentially threaten yourself and your battle brothers.

Given that Grey Knights are already incredibly limited in number and stretched thin to oppose the various daemonic incursions across the Imperium, I can't really see them being attached to the Deathwatch officially. At most they might have a passing co-operation in the case of a significant (i.e. mass scale) daemonic incursion but at that point the Deathwatch would pull out and authority would be given to the Grey Knights and their respective Inquisitors.

The subject was Grey Knights, and they fight whatever there is be it demon or not even though they prefer demons. I don't see them working for long with Deathwatch unless they think something really nasty is brewing or infiltrating, plus members have been known to leave the chapter in order to become Inquisitors.

Plus I was responding to Ashiraya and making good points as Grey Knight Librarians can do all that.

And your last spot is bull, the Deathwatch frequently has fought demons as well with the Grey knights as if Ordo Malleus ask for help you basically do their bidding and then they return to the long watch. Being equipped for something doesn't mean you fight that as Gregor Eisenhorn show. He is a guy that is Ordo Xenos yet fights mainly the Ruinous Powers.

EDIT: Plus Space Marines only withdraw if they are planning to nuke the crap out of something.

You might want to read my post more thoroughly before posting. I never said that the Deathwatch haven't fought daemons, its simply not their prerogative or role to handle large scale daemonic incursions in contrast to the Grey Knights, whose whole schtick and creation was based around specifically combating the threat of Chaos. The few cases where they fight other factions often has to do with their proximity to Chaotic forces or they are affiliated to them like CSM. Also Inquisitors are much more fluid in their roles in protecting the Imperium given that your Ordo does not designate what gear you use nor what people you recruit for your henchmen. Unlike the Grey Knights (who are super-specialized in their role i.e. Nemesis Force Weapons and Psyk-Out Grenades), the Inquisition is not monolithic and they are so varied in their methodology that trying to compare them to the Grey Knights as an example is fallacious.

Also, if you noticed, I agreed with you regarding how Grey Knights wouldn't involve themselves with the missions of the Deathwatch unless they had foreknowledge of Chaotic incursion ahead. I was just making a statement regarding how GK Librarians would be an unnecessary and excessive addition to a Deathwatch kill-team, who often have access to their own psykers and wargear that allows them to engage a variety of xenos foes.

I made the statement to demonstrate how much power could be and mainly for fun. I don't really care if it was excessive or anything as I don't let people judge me.

Be aware that those colours have been outdated for many years now.

In fairness, those colours have never appeared outside that index astartes article. That doesn't necessarily mean they're unusable - they might be for a specific brotherhood or style of operation. It's certainly a nice scheme if you want a combined Deathwatch/Grey Knights operation.

The problem is Grey Knights are super secret. I like the suggestion a Grey Knight might be attached as an advisor, rather than a true Death Watch marine. Even so I'd imagine the identity of the Grey Knight would be kept secret.

FFG's Daemonhunter supplement says they tend to do exactly that; unless necessary the Grey Knight will not announce his chapter. He won't lie, exactly, but nor will he volunteer information. For inquisitorial acolytes that the Inquisition doesn't want to fill in on the details but doesn't want to have to kill afterwards, they will generally be introduced as "A Space Marine of the Adeptus Astartes" with no mention made of chapters at all. The Deathwatch does the need-to-know-tango on a regular basis.

As far as the Deathwatch is concerned, yes, Deathwatch Veterans are sworn to secrecy, but the Inquisition and the senior officers of the Deathwatch make liberal use of mind-wipes anyway. Not even former members of the 'watch necessarily know everything they were involved in - largely because the Inquisition has a tendancy to use the Deathwatch as its private 'black ops' force and is fairly liberal with the Chamber Militant's theoretical mandate of 'the containment, study and extermination of xenos'.

Ok, I was just trying to figure out how I could use my lone squad of Gk alongside my Deathwatch. Sounds hard to justify fluffwise, must be even harder from a FOC standpoint. I guess I will just proxy them in Inquisition Crusaders or something.

I just don't want them to dust on my shelf.

Thanks for your answers anyway !

GK are never hard to justify.

It's pretty much a case of:

"we heard there might be daemons"

or

"there aren't going to be daemons if this goes to plan"

such as

"if we protect this then they can't make the daemons"

Don't forget to paint them in a ghost buster theme.