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So, more or less every time there is a thread in the News & Rumours area announcing some new crowdfunding project through Indiegogo there's inevitably comments like:

"Wow, this looks nice. A shame it's on Indiegogo"
"I would back if it wasn't Indiegogo"
"Try to fund through Kickstarter instead and I'll be all in"
etc...

Basically; many people seems to strongly prefer Kickstarter and is highly unwilling to entrust their money to a Indiegogo project.
Now, the only reasons I've heard for this basically boils down to two different complaints.

1. Indiegogo projects keep your money even if they do not fund
- While this can be true; as I understand it IGG projects can also be set up to refund the money if the project do not fund so while this might be a argument against backing certain project it's not a strike against IGG as a whole.

2. Indigogo draws money from your account the moment you back instead of when the projects deadline hit, the way kickstarter does.
- I can see why people would prefer the Kickstarter model since you will be locked out from a portion of your money during the runtime of the project, which can be over a month. However, unless you want to get in on early-bird or other limited backing levels, you can just back the project in the last day(s). Since most miniature- or boardgame projects have at least several months of expected delivery time a few extra days shouldn't really make much of a difference?


Since there are several nations whose inhabitants cannot directly use Kickstarter to fund their projects I feel there would be a shame if good projects go unfunded simply due to unfounded (heh ) fears of one of the major crowdfunding platforms available to them.

So, in conclusion; is there other reasons for potential backers to spurn Indiegogo projects or is it simply a matter of Indiegogo having a worse image than Kickstarter?

As a KS user who's also backed a few indiegogos I've a few ideas

Indiegogo also allows 'begging' in a way that KS does not,

the 'I want to make a youtube show so I need to buy an Xbox One to play games on and a high end PC to edit videos and a camera and a car and a holiday.....'

so casual browsing of projects will show a lot more that are both rubbish (and unfunded)

I also think that a significant number of 'sophisticated' KS backers do back then drop out than back then drop out etc and for them it may be more a part of the process than you'd imagine

You should also not underestimate the difficultly of deciding to learn how to use a new site (just like lots of people will stick to an old computer operating system or software package even if they can get a new one for free, learing new stuff is a pain if the old stuff works ok)

I'll also say the indoegogo comments really don't build into a community, both because the projects tend to be smaller, but also because you can make the comments anonymous, or just visible to the project creator (not sure why you'd want to do so, but there you go)

EDIT:
also KS projects (used to) basically offer free shipping to the USA (as do a fair few online game stores over there) so once a new user starts using KS they begun to expect it and coming to Indiegogo which charges not only shipping but international shipping by postal services that don't offer the cheap(ish) flat rate box of the USPS is a big shock (of course people who've bought from abroad before won't be surprised but I'm sure they are in a minority)

You also get charged any time you adjust your pledge on indiegogo, so it's really hard to follow a campaign and add more later if you like what you see - each time you do is a separate instant charge, and I think even treated as a separate pledge. So that makes it kind of a poor fit for minis projects, where there are often more offerings after the initial goal is reached.

I don't have that horror of Indiegogo myself. I have backed two projects on Indiegogo that both were successes. Neither was a wargame project. My hit rate on Kickstarter is much lower. That is partly due to the small number of projects I have ever backed -- i.e. luck.

To my mind it is the project plan and team that is important, not the site it is run off.

However the way I use crowdfunding is different to a lot of people. If I think a project is worthwhile, and I have spare money, I back it. I don't care if my money is taken straight away or later on. It's money I have written off from my budget either way.

I don't like stretch goals. I think they potentially add a lot of new risks to a project while it goes through its initiation phase.

I don't care about comments threads and community involvement. I want to back the project team's ideas, not mine, or a load of random people's off the internet. I don't want to continually discuss things and try to change them, because I looked at the project at the beginning and made my decision. I just want a regular message from the project team to inform me about progress.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I also think that a significant number of 'sophisticated' KS backers do back then drop out than back then drop out etc and for them it may be more a part of the process than you'd imagine

 RiTides wrote:
You also get charged any time you adjust your pledge on indiegogo, so it's really hard to follow a campaign and add more later if you like what you see - each time you do is a separate instant charge, and I think even treated as a separate pledge.

Pretty much this and what you originally posted about IndieGoGo. It isn't that it is horrible, run for the hills type of thing but it is inconvenient.

As someone who is on multiple KS, like most people, there is a set amount of budget towards hobby and projects that I allocate. In a one week period all those funds could be allocated to 2-3 Kickstarters but a KS is a 30-45 day process. In the middle another KS could happen that has more appeal, so either adjustments need to be made by reducing pledge or dropping it for now. Other times something happens in a campaign which may deter a buyer and they drop. In other cases they redeem themselves and people come back. It isn't unusual for people to flip flop between projects, KS makes this process painless and easy.

It is possible do this with IndieGoGo but it really isn't designed with that easy of functionality in mind. Another popular thing people will is bid a $1 to simply be included in updates, then usually based on the frequency of updates, content, etc they decide to fully drop it or pledge more.

When I compare projects with IndieGoGo that I have funded vs Kickstarters, there is a difference in content. Kickstarters, at least traditional successfully ones, have updates every day or couple of days. These updates help provide build confidence backing but also can serve to create red flags identifying a more questionable project. IndieGoGo tends to have a lot less frequent updates for projects, makes it harder to gauge or gain confidence from backers.

I never got into IGG, but I have backed quite a few KS, possibly too many.

From what I saw, IGG projects weren't as compelling, so there wasn't really anything that drove me onto IGG, whereas KS continued to have more interesting projects come up over the past few years. At this point, I'm starting to feel a little burnout, so that makes it even less likely to start onto IGG.

Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

I've backed more indiegogos than kickstarters, and had no problems.

Zywus wrote:

Basically; many people seems to strongly prefer Kickstarter and is highly unwilling to entrust their money to a Indiegogo project.
Now, the only reasons I've heard for this basically boils down to two different complaints.

1. Indiegogo projects keep your money even if they do not fund
- While this can be true; as I understand it IGG projects can also be set up to refund the money if the project do not fund so while this might be a argument against backing certain project it's not a strike against IGG as a whole.

2. Indigogo draws money from your account the moment you back instead of when the projects deadline hit, the way kickstarter does.
- I can see why people would prefer the Kickstarter model since you will be locked out from a portion of your money during the runtime of the project, which can be over a month. However, unless you want to get in on early-bird or other limited backing levels, you can just back the project in the last day(s). Since most miniature- or boardgame projects have at least several months of expected delivery time a few extra days shouldn't really make much of a difference?

I'm just gonna be 'that guy' and say that the problem with indiegogo is that it forces gamers to actually be grown up and discriminating with their finances, as opposed to no-prefrontal-cortex pavlovian splurge-hounds. If you regularly go switching your ks pledges or cancelling them altogether, what'd ye pledge for in the first place?

 Vermis wrote:
I've backed more indiegogos than kickstarters, and had no problems.

Zywus wrote:

Basically; many people seems to strongly prefer Kickstarter and is highly unwilling to entrust their money to a Indiegogo project.
Now, the only reasons I've heard for this basically boils down to two different complaints.

1. Indiegogo projects keep your money even if they do not fund
- While this can be true; as I understand it IGG projects can also be set up to refund the money if the project do not fund so while this might be a argument against backing certain project it's not a strike against IGG as a whole.

2. Indigogo draws money from your account the moment you back instead of when the projects deadline hit, the way kickstarter does.
- I can see why people would prefer the Kickstarter model since you will be locked out from a portion of your money during the runtime of the project, which can be over a month. However, unless you want to get in on early-bird or other limited backing levels, you can just back the project in the last day(s). Since most miniature- or boardgame projects have at least several months of expected delivery time a few extra days shouldn't really make much of a difference?

I'm just gonna be 'that guy' and say that the problem with indiegogo is that it forces gamers to actually be grown up and discriminating with their finances, as opposed to no-prefrontal-cortex pavlovian splurge-hounds. If you regularly go switching your ks pledges or cancelling them altogether, what'd ye pledge for in the first place?

To game the system, of course.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

This analogy...so bad...so wrong...

 Alpharius wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

This analogy...so bad...so wrong...

It's OK, he thinks PayPal is a bank, too.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

This analogy...so bad...so wrong...

It's OK, he thinks PayPal is a bank, too.

ummmm, no I dont. PayPal is an intermediate between a bank and a seller.

Nope. If you're saying KS is a bank, then so is PP.

Fact is, KS, IGG etc. are all non-regulated intermediaries like PP.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nope. If you're saying KS is a bank, then so is PP.

Fact is, KS, IGG etc. are all non-regulated intermediaries like PP.

it's an analogy. I'm not saying it's an actual bank jeez. I'm saying ks gets things done and hasee tools to help you and make things easier. Jeez dude.

Whatever. They're all shacks, and KS simply has the newest coat of paint.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

How do KS give better protection than IGG or GFM?

I you pledge to a project that fails to fulfill for whatever reason neither crowdfunding platform has any obligation to you. Or have I missed something?

Zywus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

How do KS give better protection than IGG or GFM?

I you pledge to a project that fails to fulfill for whatever reason neither crowdfunding platform has any obligation to you. Or have I missed something?

Well, if a KS backer is unsatisfied they get a complete refund from KS via their customer service section, correct?












Just kidding!

Zywus wrote:
So, more or less every time there is a thread in the News & Rumours area announcing some new crowdfunding project through Indiegogo there's inevitably comments like:

"Wow, this looks nice. A shame it's on Indiegogo"
"I would back if it wasn't Indiegogo"
"Try to fund through Kickstarter instead and I'll be all in"
etc...

Basically; many people seems to strongly prefer Kickstarter and is highly unwilling to entrust their money to a Indiegogo project.
Now, the only reasons I've heard for this basically boils down to two different complaints.

1. Indiegogo projects keep your money even if they do not fund
- While this can be true; as I understand it IGG projects can also be set up to refund the money if the project do not fund so while this might be a argument against backing certain project it's not a strike against IGG as a whole.

2. Indigogo draws money from your account the moment you back instead of when the projects deadline hit, the way kickstarter does.
- I can see why people would prefer the Kickstarter model since you will be locked out from a portion of your money during the runtime of the project, which can be over a month. However, unless you want to get in on early-bird or other limited backing levels, you can just back the project in the last day(s). Since most miniature- or boardgame projects have at least several months of expected delivery time a few extra days shouldn't really make much of a difference?


Since there are several nations whose inhabitants cannot directly use Kickstarter to fund their projects I feel there would be a shame if good projects go unfunded simply due to unfounded (heh ) fears of one of the major crowdfunding platforms available to them.

So, in conclusion; is there other reasons for potential backers to spurn Indiegogo projects or is it simply a matter of Indiegogo having a worse image than Kickstarter?

I'm tired of crowdfunding.

It was cute a few months to a year ago, but the end state games are in the end non-sustainable, except of course if your CMON, or Mantic, where you can go ahead and start another project if you get in a jam.

Then we can go on with the "Delays". I'm looking at you, Mongoose. ( 3 years, just saying.)

Indiegogo had a few good projects on there, but in the end, crowd funding is just about getting money for a promise, and hit or miss at the end of the day.

There are a few projects that earned that money from me, a quite a few more that just didn't. they sold hot air.

Some of these guys have a good work ethic, some of them just.... don't. They'd rather take the money and give you excuses as to why they blew it all on tattoos and hookers, or just dwarf hookers.

YMMV

privateer4hire wrote:

Zywus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

How do KS give better protection than IGG or GFM?

I you pledge to a project that fails to fulfill for whatever reason neither crowdfunding platform has any obligation to you. Or have I missed something?

Well, if a KS backer is unsatisfied they get a complete refund from KS via their customer service section, correct?












Just kidding!

You must be thinking of some alternate universe version of Kickstarter. The one that operates in this reality is as big a bunch of thieves as any group of highwaymen. Kickstarter and its 'Integrity' team don't give two cr@ps about you or your money after the project funds - they got their cut already, immediately. If the creator doesn't deliver or disappears, well sucks to be you. Perhaps some reading on boardgamegeek will enlighten the masses to the number of times gamers have been ripped off there http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160421/controversial-or-fraudulent-kickstarters

 totalfailure wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

Zywus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Kickstarter is the bank, yeah they aren't the best, but if you put money in, and don't get it back, you have protection withing the system.
Indiegogo is the loanshark, you ain't got any protection from anything.
go fund me is the panhandler outside the bank.

How do KS give better protection than IGG or GFM?

I you pledge to a project that fails to fulfill for whatever reason neither crowdfunding platform has any obligation to you. Or have I missed something?

Well, if a KS backer is unsatisfied they get a complete refund from KS via their customer service section, correct?












Just kidding!

You must be thinking of some alternate universe version of Kickstarter. The one that operates in this reality is as big a bunch of thieves as any group of highwaymen. Kickstarter and its 'Integrity' team don't give two cr@ps about you or your money after the project funds - they got their cut already, immediately. If the creator doesn't deliver or disappears, well sucks to be you. Perhaps some reading on boardgamegeek will enlighten the masses to the number of times gamers have been ripped off there http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/160421/controversial-or-fraudulent-kickstarters

I believe you missed the part where he said, "Just kidding!". As for me personally I haven't been burned on kcikstarter(yet ), but I did come close with a music kickstarter- It was already running a few months late when an update came that basically read, "We're breaking up the band, we doubt you'll ever get anything!" Luckily they worked out their issues and we got their music about a year later.

Apart from the inconvenience thing of not being able to up a pledge, and that you actually have to pay the moment you pledge, they are pretty much the same thing.

KS is shinier, has a lot more projects, and let's you do all the shenanigans that people with too much money and time on their hands like to play around with, but at the core, they are both the same: You give money, and either you get something out of it or not.

Neither platform will give you back your money once the funding period is over.

I have backed 9 Indiegogo campaigns, 1 on Ulule, 10 on Kickstarter. All of them delivered and I was very happy with the results.

Why has none of these failed? In my opinion, because they were all done by enthusiasts who stayed humble in their project (well, apart from Sandy Petersen... ), who demonstrably put a lot of work into the project before the campaign, had a sound project plan, and most of which were already known in the community, either as sculptors, (video) game designers or painters.

I've backed two projects on Indigogo... One went fine. The other (Escenorama) is more than two years overdue and counting... But that's really am issue of their poor planning rather than anything exclusive to the platform. They would have had the same issues if they had used Kickstarter.