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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






@Therion, davethepak - thanks for a good read with back-and-forth where there's merit on both sides of the fence in a good and respectful discussion. Not enough of this, these days on the interwebs!

 Therion wrote:

We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.


And I'm dyin' to see how it all shakes out. Lord almighty, it feels like eons since our last 40k release The new Blood Angels bits from FW should be coming soon, which will tide me over for a little bit, but I can't wait to see what happens to the Tau.

I am very curious as to what the fluff and structure behind their Decurion-style formation will be.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/19 08:14:52


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





Caederes wrote:
Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.


There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .

My armies:
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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Wow I totally forgot about formations, there will have to be a core one based on battle suits if not I will be amazed at such a lost oppurtunity.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AtoMaki wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.


There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .


Haha cheers, yeah I'm not too read up on Tau fluff nowadays.
   
Made in br
Fireknife Shas'el




Lisbon, Portugal

 AtoMaki wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.


There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .


Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations
[Thumb - cadres.png]


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
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 Shadenuat wrote:
Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army.
 
   
Made in hu
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 Vector Strike wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.


There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .


Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations


Agree. I would also add that the Hunter Cadre is too big for a stand-alone formation (it is some 1000+ points at bare minimum), so they will divide it into two parts a'la Battle Company and give a bonus if you bring a full Hunter Cadre (I can smell the free Drones from here ).

My armies:
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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 AtoMaki wrote:
 Vector Strike wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.


There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .


Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations


Agree. I would also add that the Hunter Cadre is too big for a stand-alone formation (it is some 1000+ points at bare minimum), so they will divide it into two parts a'la Battle Company and give a bonus if you bring a full Hunter Cadre (I can smell the free Drones from here ).


How does free Drones for the full Hunter Cadre and +1 army-wide Ballistic Skill for the actual detachment sound?
   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units

Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Red Corsair wrote:
I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units

Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.



I'd imagine it wouldn't be linked fire like the Eldar tanks but more a unit-wide bonus like the Space Marine tanks, perhaps Hammerheads get Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter like Predators and Skyrays get Interceptor or something? I'm guessing Riptides won't come in units only because there are so many solo variations throughout the different slots, especially with the new Stormsurge and Ghostkeel. If they do....*shudder*.

Their formations are going to be ridiculous if the Firebase Support Cadre is anything to go by. If I'm not mistaken the FSC was actually the first ever formation in 40K? It still stands up as one of the strongest too.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre




DFW area Texas - Rarely

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units

Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.



Heh...for tau players the biggest bonus would be being able to take units of tanks.

More seriously - I just hope they are useful benefits - and not over powered. I think one of the biggest things veteran tau players (i.e. previous to the last book) would like to see is a return of vehicle target locks and trackers. The loss of these upgrades really stifled the utility and mobility of tau armies (along with other rules that encouraged being static).

Another note on useful; sometimes something might not be bad, but that does not mean it can be seen as valuable. For example, the sunshark bomber has drones with interceptor, some seekers, and its main attack, was a large blast "fusion" bomb (I think it had another missile launcher too). This unit however, was quite the "dud" with most tau players - in fact, many have commented over time that they have never seen them deployed on the table.

The reason - they did not add any significant capability that the tau did not already have, or could not get in other choices, at better unit costs.

The primary weapon, was a S5AP5 large blast. While not bad at all, there was no lack of S5 shooting in the codex (drones, pathfinders, firewarriors, crisis suits, vehicle weapons, stealth suits, etc.) - so the while this weapon was not bad per se, it was not valuable within that context. The drones added some new options depending upon the tactics of the list - but this new tactical flexibility did not offset the overall cost of the unit.

It would be kind of like if there was a new predator variant that had a new mix of Auto cannons, heavy bolters, and bolters. (maybe add hurricane bolter sponsons, etc.). While not bad, clearly not really bringing anything new to the heavy suppot slot, or to the army.

Now, if the bombs were S8AP3.... you would see a lot more of them.



DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
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Made in th
Jervis Johnson






 Red Corsair wrote:
I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units

Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.



I agree on that. There will be some so brainlessly good that it's free stuff for nothing. Like, take 3 Riptides, gain tank hunter and move through cover for free, and a larger formation of entirely Crisis Suits, Riptides, Broadsides, HQ suits, and the new big suit variants, all of the previous gets +1 BS for free. People will be scratching their head at the balancing that's for sure.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/19 15:16:05


 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Sniper Drone




 Therion wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units

Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.



Like, take 3 Riptides, gain tank hunter and move through cover for free.



They already have move through cover. It is part of the monstrous creature special rule.
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Riptide got the Wraithknight treatment and was turned into a GMC LoW, with formations/detachment shenanigans allowing you to take multiple.
   
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Deep Frier of Mount Doom

I'm most curious to see how the missiletide compares with the FW supremacy suit. I'm thinking about coverting the former to look more like the latter.
   
Made in th
Jervis Johnson






 warboss wrote:
I'm most curious to see how the missiletide compares with the FW supremacy suit. I'm thinking about coverting the former to look more like the latter.


For one there's a pretty staggering size difference.
   
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Honored Helliarch on Hypex





Back in GA

I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.

I do what the voices in my wifes head say...
 
   
Made in us
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Gosport, UK

 Fishboy wrote:
I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.


You mean like how we saw Iyanden before Eldar..? The Mechanicus stuff is different because they function as separate books, one isn't a supplement to the other. I doubt the Farside book will be redone, Iyanden, Sentinals of Terra and Clan Raurkann were all left when the parent book got redone.
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 Therion wrote:
 warboss wrote:
I'm most curious to see how the missiletide compares with the FW supremacy suit. I'm thinking about coverting the former to look more like the latter.


For one there's a pretty staggering size difference.


Yeah, that's obvious. I wonder if it'll be a super heavy/garg LOW or "just" a monstrous creature like the riptide and how it compares statwise. Will it be t7 to be better than the riptide but still worse than the wraithknight? I'm wondering how much variety in LOW it'll be (i.e. is the missile tide the imperial knight to the supremacy armor's warhound both in size and stats)
   
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Back in GA

 ImAGeek wrote:
 Fishboy wrote:
I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.


You mean like how we saw Iyanden before Eldar..? The Mechanicus stuff is different because they function as separate books, one isn't a supplement to the other. I doubt the Farside book will be redone, Iyanden, Sentinals of Terra and Clan Raurkann were all left when the parent book got redone.


I can see your point but there is a little fluff separation so I would not be surprised to see the AM or Skitarri treatment but all tied together with a magic formation. GW seem to be more creatures of habit and this would sell another book for them.

Still hoping to see more leaks soon hehe

I do what the voices in my wifes head say...
 
   
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A Protoss colony world

 Therion wrote:

It's a worthy point, but we don't have the whole picture. In a vacuum, this Tau Titan is worth every point it costs, and more. It's one of the most points efficient units in the game, making it a must take. Now, what you're saying is true in the context of the old Tau codex (Tau could use more D shots), but what about the new codex? We don't know it yet, but considering the treatment the Eldar got, it's not hopelessly optimistic to assume that there's D weapons available to the 'normal' Tau units now too. All types of Rail weapons being the obvious candidates.

We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

Maybe the Riptide's Nove-charged Ion Accelerator will get a Strength D Large Blast now...

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Made in gb
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UK

Super excited about those new fire warriors , suits and commander. May have to come back to tau of that means I wouldn't have to run Riptides to succeed!
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Stormsurge to cover that role from the looks of it.

   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Gamgee wrote:
It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Supremacy Armor to cover that role from the looks of it.


Fix'd. The Stormsurge actually doesn't look much bigger than the Riptide, and much of its bulk is its weapons.

My armies:
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Made in us
Shade of Despair and Torment







So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?

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 krazynadechukr wrote:
So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?


The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.

There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/19 18:19:15


My armies:
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Made in us
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

 AtoMaki wrote:
 krazynadechukr wrote:
So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?


The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.

There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.


I think the Ghostkeel is smaller than you think, it looks similar to the Riptide in that photo but that's in the foreground while the other two are in the background.
   
Made in us
Shade of Despair and Torment







 ImAGeek wrote:
 AtoMaki wrote:
 krazynadechukr wrote:
So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?


The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.

There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.


I think the Ghostkeel is smaller than you think, it looks similar to the Riptide in that photo but that's in the foreground while the other two are in the background.


Just a few more weeks and we will see....

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Deep Frier of Mount Doom

 AtoMaki wrote:
 krazynadechukr wrote:
So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?


The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.

There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.


The pic on the front page shows all three at differing distances from the camera which is what is causing the confusion. The likely smallest is up front, the probably biggest is in line with the riptide though and looks bigger not just on the weapons but also the torso... but it's still not crystal clear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/19 18:53:57


 
   
Made in us
Shade of Despair and Torment







Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)

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