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 Vineheart01 wrote:
(and why do they spell it with a c every time...)

because that's the correct way it is spelled in non-American English.

 Fishboy wrote:
So...anchor a storm surge on the rampart to give him all the shooting buffs, he can move six inches without counting as moving, and get him a bounce back cover save....sounds like they were made for each other hehe

Except the stormsurge will be too large to claim a cover save from the shieldwall. 25% is required for defense lines

There is no way it can be auto glances. Every Tau gun line would take one and no one would want to field vehicles fighting it.

 Vash108 wrote:
There is no way it can be auto glances. Every Tau gun line would take one and no one would want to field vehicles fighting it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3600/651154.page#8198317

Says right there in the rules, the unit suffers either 1 randomly allocated wound or glancing hit.

 Vash108 wrote:
There is no way it can be auto glances. Every Tau gun line would take one and no one would want to field vehicles fighting it.

It's still 265 points, and only does it on a successful cover save of 6 for models within 1" of it.

Not to mention that it can only cover so many things, and only works as long as the shield walls are between the model and the thing targeting it. Additionally, vehicles can just target other things. Honestly, I just think it's the point cost that makes it not that good, despite it being reasonably strong.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
There is no way it can be auto glances. Every Tau gun line would take one and no one would want to field vehicles fighting it.

It's still 265 points, and only does it on a successful cover save of 6 for models within 1" of it.

Not to mention that it can only cover so many things, and only works as long as the shield walls are between the model and the thing targeting it. Additionally, vehicles can just target other things. Honestly, I just think it's the point cost that makes it not that good, despite it being reasonably strong.

And that is what is called balanced.

So any number of additional tide walls can be taken?

Now Tau can make lists similar to the CSM Lesser Daemon spam with no Summoning Icons

Imagine it, a 2000pt army of 1 railgun, 2 fire warrior squads, cheapo HQ, 4 drones and WALLS

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
So any number of additional tide walls can be taken?

Now Tau can make lists similar to the CSM Lesser Daemon spam with no Summoning Icons

Imagine it, a 2000pt army of 1 railgun, 2 fire warrior squads, cheapo HQ, 4 drones and WALLS

Walls of Fury!

People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Everything that doesnt ignore cover saves is subject to it, autohit or not. Barrage if its inside the wall obviously as well.

So far, the tidewall seems pretty straight forward. I feel it's balanced well, if not slightly too expensive. The reflect mechanic is really not that bad, unless you don't understand how numbers work and are just screaming at your monitor about "AUTOGLANCES WARGARBLE!!1!!" while drops of cheetos and blind rage flavored spit coat everything you own.

Could Pask accidentally blow himself up with his punisher? Sure. Not likely, and there are always other things for pask to shoot at.

I even think the rules are written in a pretty good, not-able-to-be-read-wrong-unless-you're-really-trying way, which is unusual for GW when it comes to something more complex than a shoebox.

I can find only one major problem for far in rules interactions, and that's with barrage.

So, situation. You have some FW standing on the line, and an earthshaker platform lobs a round in front of them from out of LOS. One of the FW makes his cover save, and against probability that shot is reflected. Can the wound be allocated back without LOS?

Also, tactically, jam your ionfinders on here, overcharge everything. Because it says you re-roll 1s to hit, so YES YOU GET TO REROLL THE GETS HOT.

Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

 Vector Strike wrote:
People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Psychic shriek ignores cover so who cares anyway.

This thing is too expensive IMHO, at the end of the day it is a 265 point fortification, thats fortress of redemption territory, and it isn't as if it's much smaller, and we know how hard those are to deploy, it also specifically states that ALL sections have to be able to move the distance you are shifting it, so it can't change it's shape once deployed if I am not mistaken, so the biggest perk won't really matter 9 times out of 10.

The reflections are being blown out of proportion. Kill a crusader you say? OK, first find me a solid list still running one lol I agree the rules are written horridly, but lets keep it real, this thing isn't ment to be taken that seriously, anyone wanting to pay over 5 times the cost of an aegis can be my guest lol. Or you could spend those points on a void shield generator which is good, and less.

Looks awesome though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

lol, really? Explain, because I don't see it. If this thing is able to move them any meaningful distance then I feel bad for your opponent because he's playing against Tau on a naked table. Also how is making them +265pts helping their role?

I think the Tidewall is awesome, but I don't see it showing up quite as often as your bog standard ADL. The ADL has the advantage that its cheep and offers a skyfire weapon platform. The tidewall has neither of these things. It does have a lot of gimmicks but I wonder just how many players would rather have 200ish more points of boots on the ground than those gimmicks.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Psychic shriek ignores cover so who cares anyway.

This thing is too expensive IMHO, at the end of the day it is a 265 point fortification, thats fortress of redemption territory, and it isn't as if it's much smaller, and we know how hard those are to deploy, it also specifically states that ALL sections have to be able to move the distance you are shifting it, so it can't change it's shape once deployed if I am not mistaken, so the biggest perk won't really matter 9 times out of 10.

The reflections are being blown out of proportion. Kill a crusader you say? OK, first find me a solid list still running one lol I agree the rules are written horridly, but lets keep it real, this thing isn't ment to be taken that seriously, anyone wanting to pay over 5 times the cost of an aegis can be my guest lol. Or you could spend those points on a void shield generator which is good, and less.

Looks awesome though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

lol, really? Explain, because I don't see it. If this thing is able to move them any meaningful distance then I feel bad for your opponent because he's playing against Tau on a naked table. Also how is making them +265pts helping their role?

Insane cover saves. Some limited extra mobility. Ability for many models to deflect shots back at the enemy. Pathfinders can move and markerlight now meaning I don't have to spend as much as other more expensive options freeing up a lot of my heavy support slots (on a cad) for me to take more Broadsides which go on the defense line. I can deploy closer to the front and move back while still firing guns that otherwise can't. Then a whole bunch of ML drones since they seem to be the only worthwhile choice.

I don't play on an open table, but there is usually enough room to make some movement with this possible.

On top of that throw up a decent turret and the ability to reroll one's on ranged attacks?? Pathfinders can use their special weapons now and its viable thanks to rerolling gets hot.

Alone or even with a little less and it would be alright, but as it is? This all adds up to a lot of extra DPT on an enemy army.

I can slap a Stormsurge or Ta'unar near it so that some attacks hitting it would allow it to also benefit from deflecting shots? Hell yes son. This thing is inanely good. Maybe not in all situations against all enemies, but certainly in a large chunk of situations it's going to be an amazing piece. This and some Ghostkeels? Unstoppable and insane firepower.

Those one's add up Jerry. The odd deflect attack that gets through is going to be adding value on this thing. The extra attack that hits thanks to that reroll is great. The extra units that survive thanks to its insane cover bonus. A 2+ with go to ground. It's a combined effect that makes it insane. There are no rules saying that after set up they have to stick together when moving. Leap frogging cover and terrain all over the place will be a nightmare.

It doesn't cover 25% of the Riptide, Stormsurge or Ta'unar and isn't area terrain so no cover save for them.

 Gamgee wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Psychic shriek ignores cover so who cares anyway.

This thing is too expensive IMHO, at the end of the day it is a 265 point fortification, thats fortress of redemption territory, and it isn't as if it's much smaller, and we know how hard those are to deploy, it also specifically states that ALL sections have to be able to move the distance you are shifting it, so it can't change it's shape once deployed if I am not mistaken, so the biggest perk won't really matter 9 times out of 10.

The reflections are being blown out of proportion. Kill a crusader you say? OK, first find me a solid list still running one lol I agree the rules are written horridly, but lets keep it real, this thing isn't ment to be taken that seriously, anyone wanting to pay over 5 times the cost of an aegis can be my guest lol. Or you could spend those points on a void shield generator which is good, and less.

Looks awesome though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

lol, really? Explain, because I don't see it. If this thing is able to move them any meaningful distance then I feel bad for your opponent because he's playing against Tau on a naked table. Also how is making them +265pts helping their role?

Insane cover saves. Some limited extra mobility. Ability for many models to deflect shots back at the enemy. Pathfinders can move and markerlight now meaning I don't have to spend as much as other more expensive options freeing up a lot of my heavy support slots (on a cad) for me to take more Broadsides which go on the defense line. I can deploy closer to the front and move back while still firing guns that otherwise can't. Then a whole bunch of ML drones since they seem to be the only worthwhile choice.

I don't play on an open table, but there is usually enough room to make some movement with this possible.

On top of that throw up a decent turret and the ability to reroll one's on ranged attacks?? Pathfinders can use their special weapons now and its viable thanks to rerolling gets hot.

Alone or even with a little less and it would be alright, but as it is? This all adds up to a lot of extra DPT on an enemy army.

I can slap a Stormsurge or Ta'unar near it so that some attacks hitting it would allow it to also benefit from deflecting shots? Hell yes son. This thing is inanely good. Maybe not in all situations against all enemies, but certainly in a large chunk of situations it's going to be an amazing piece. This and some Ghostkeels? Unstoppable and insane firepower.

Those one's add up Jerry. The odd deflect attack that gets through is going to be adding value on this thing. The extra attack that hits thanks to that reroll is great. The extra units that survive thanks to its insane cover bonus. A 2+ with go to ground. It's a combined effect that makes it insane. There are no rules saying that after set up they have to stick together when moving. Leap frogging cover and terrain all over the place will be a nightmare.

It has to stay in the same configuration if you move it.
Also it depends how much of a Stormsurge/Ta'unar it can cover, if it's not 25% then you won't get a cover save (not to mention the amount of ignore cover flying about).
A 5+ cover save isn't much to write home about, unless the Tau codex has ways of buffing cover saves for units that would occupy it. Even going to ground only gives +1 and seriously hampers your shooting. It may be a defence line like an ADL, but it doesn't have the same cover providing rules as a ADL.

Ah damn. Okay it's still really good though. Still syngergises well with Ghostkeels ect. It's not as crazy as I thought, but still really good.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the box set with pathfinders and pirhanas is not worth it

 Frozocrone wrote:

A 5+ cover save isn't much to write home about, unless the Tau codex has ways of buffing cover saves for units that would occupy it. Even going to ground only gives +1 and seriously hampers your shooting. It may be a defence line like an ADL, but it doesn't have the same cover providing rules as a ADL.

As Battlefield Debris (Defense Line), it's a 4+ base cover save that improves to 2+ if you gtg.

I looked it up and that is correct. So it is a good cover save. Very good.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Spoiler:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Psychic shriek ignores cover so who cares anyway.

This thing is too expensive IMHO, at the end of the day it is a 265 point fortification, thats fortress of redemption territory, and it isn't as if it's much smaller, and we know how hard those are to deploy, it also specifically states that ALL sections have to be able to move the distance you are shifting it, so it can't change it's shape once deployed if I am not mistaken, so the biggest perk won't really matter 9 times out of 10.

The reflections are being blown out of proportion. Kill a crusader you say? OK, first find me a solid list still running one lol I agree the rules are written horridly, but lets keep it real, this thing isn't ment to be taken that seriously, anyone wanting to pay over 5 times the cost of an aegis can be my guest lol. Or you could spend those points on a void shield generator which is good, and less.

Looks awesome though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

lol, really? Explain, because I don't see it. If this thing is able to move them any meaningful distance then I feel bad for your opponent because he's playing against Tau on a naked table. Also how is making them +265pts helping their role?

Insane cover saves. Some limited extra mobility. Ability for many models to deflect shots back at the enemy. Pathfinders can move and markerlight now meaning I don't have to spend as much as other more expensive options freeing up a lot of my heavy support slots (on a cad) for me to take more Broadsides which go on the defense line. I can deploy closer to the front and move back while still firing guns that otherwise can't. Then a whole bunch of ML drones since they seem to be the only worthwhile choice.

I don't play on an open table, but there is usually enough room to make some movement with this possible.

On top of that throw up a decent turret and the ability to reroll one's on ranged attacks?? Pathfinders can use their special weapons now and its viable thanks to rerolling gets hot.

Alone or even with a little less and it would be alright, but as it is? This all adds up to a lot of extra DPT on an enemy army.

I can slap a Stormsurge or Ta'unar near it so that some attacks hitting it would allow it to also benefit from deflecting shots? Hell yes son. This thing is inanely good. Maybe not in all situations against all enemies, but certainly in a large chunk of situations it's going to be an amazing piece. This and some Ghostkeels? Unstoppable and insane firepower.

Those one's add up Jerry. The odd deflect attack that gets through is going to be adding value on this thing. The extra attack that hits thanks to that reroll is great. The extra units that survive thanks to its insane cover bonus. A 2+ with go to ground. It's a combined effect that makes it insane. There are no rules saying that after set up they have to stick together when moving. Leap frogging cover and terrain all over the place will be a nightmare.

It has to stay in the same configuration if you move it.
Also it depends how much of a Stormsurge/Ta'unar it can cover, if it's not 25% then you won't get a cover save (not to mention the amount of ignore cover flying about).
A 5+ cover save isn't much to write home about, unless the Tau codex has ways of buffing cover saves for units that would occupy it. Even going to ground only gives +1 and seriously hampers your shooting. It may be a defence line like an ADL, but it doesn't have the same cover providing rules as a ADL.

As someone else already corrected you regarding what a Defence Line constitutes regarding cover saves, I'll address your other point. Having seen the Stormsurge model in person and looking at the height of a Tidewall Rampart relative to other models in images (remembering that it floats), I would say that as long as you build your Stormsurges with the anchors deployed (i.e. crouching) they should be 25% obscured. This is quite funny in retrospect for my gaming group as both Stormsurges that have been built so far have been modified to stand up I have no idea how it moving with a Stormsurge on top of it would work but it would be damned amusing. The main use I see for this is solving the range limitations of certain Tau units, namely Broadsides. If you don't get what I mean, Broadsides generally have to be deployed hidden or far back to stay out of range of any dedicated shooting so they don't just get murdered on the first turn against other armies with similar weapon ranges. The benefits from this are pretty obvious in that regard.

Generally speaking, I would like to say "I told you so" regarding it moving but I'm not so prideful. Instead I'm going to have a long chat with my Tau-playing buddies to see if they like it and will report our findings.

Funnily enough the Drone thingy part of the Tidewall Rampart might be its most valuable piece in the context of the current codex, 60 points for a big cover-generator that also provides four Drones - themselves currently valued at 56 points. Paying 4 points over the Drones to get a big source of cover? HELL YES!

First thoughts on rules I've seen. Unless breachers have other rules besides new gun they are only viable as a tax and bubble wrap.

Stormsurge is good. Do NOT get the D weapon. It's not a wraithknight I'm sorry.


Ghostkeel really depends. A melta blast is pretty stupid for 120 pts but it could be could. All equivalent pts costed models with 1 or 2 melta shots suck though so... it could take a bit

The box set with the pirhana and pathfinders is offensive. It's the models everyone already has and they have seen 0 competitive play ever. (Or at least in forever).

Really excited for the release actually

I was going to get a Ta'unar but if a SS can get cover saves from this I'll have to go that route for extra laughs.

jakejackjake wrote:
First thoughts on rules I've seen. Unless breachers have other rules besides new gun they are only viable as a tax and bubble wrap.

Stormsurge is good. Do NOT get the D weapon. It's not a wraithknight I'm sorry.


Ghostkeel really depends. A melta blast is pretty stupid for 120 pts but it could be could. All equivalent pts costed models with 1 or 2 melta shots suck though so... it could take a bit

The box set with the pirhana and pathfinders is offensive. It's the models everyone already has and they have seen 0 competitive play ever. (Or at least in forever).

Really excited for the release actually

General consensus seems to line up with what you said, though with two addendums; Breachers could be really good if Devilfishes improve a lot, Ghostkeels are best served taking the Cyclic Ion Raker.

Come to think of it I find the comparison between a Fusion Collider Ghostkeel to a Devil Dog to be....depressing :( More expensive, wayyyyyyy easier to destroy, 6" more on the range and having Fast instead of Jet Pack. Ugh. And that's likely not the best use of a Ghostkeel anyway.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Caederes wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Darkstrider is insanely expensive for what he does though. While that sounds nasty giving breachers that shoot n run tactic, ouch the cost.

The gun drone squad idea is just hilarious. I always have a 5man piranha squad so i always have 10 gun drones floating around. Muhahahaha!
Ive already attached random commanders with drone controllers to them and they become insanely scary quick.

Hence why the tactic rests on him getting a big price drop which I think is in order. His rules are so darned good for Breachers specifically, he just needs to be cheaper.

How much cheaper could he get?!

100 points for a BS5 character who brings a Markerlight to the party, has Scout, and makes a unit that he joins able to consolidate D6" after firing Overwatch? And who subtracts a point of Toughness from whatever he and his unit are shooting at, outside of making Snap Shots?

Get Darkstrider with a unit of Breachers onto an objective in Cover early on, call down a turret with a Missile Pod. If Darkstrider and his unit get dug in quick enough, then any unit that is Toughness 3(before the Structural Analyser kicks in) that gets targeted is getting doubled out via weapon strength from 6"-15" thanks to his Signature System--and the Missile Pod is going to be doubling out anything that is T4(before SA kicks in) as well.

I really don't understand why people say he's overcosted for what he brings.

Because youre talking about a list option in comparison to something T3. You should literally never be considering taking something because it's good at "killing tacs or gaunts" if you build lists that way they won't be anywhere near competitive. You basically just gave away an easy slay the warlord your opponent can collect at any point in the game too.

Caederes wrote:

Spoiler:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
[spoiler]

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
People seem to miss the part that shots aren't reflected when you pass a cover save of 6. You grab a bunch of dice equal to the number of successful cover saves and roll them. THESE dice do reflect shots if they roll 6s.

TheNewBlood wrote:
Specifically, Psychic Powers that roll to-hit, so it doesn't affect Psychic Shriek, Novas, or Beam powers. Blast weapons with Barrage can also ignore the Shieldline.

Psychic Shriek still has to roll to hit. It's a witchfire power without the nova/beam types, so need to roll.

Psychic shriek ignores cover so who cares anyway.

This thing is too expensive IMHO, at the end of the day it is a 265 point fortification, thats fortress of redemption territory, and it isn't as if it's much smaller, and we know how hard those are to deploy, it also specifically states that ALL sections have to be able to move the distance you are shifting it, so it can't change it's shape once deployed if I am not mistaken, so the biggest perk won't really matter 9 times out of 10.

The reflections are being blown out of proportion. Kill a crusader you say? OK, first find me a solid list still running one lol I agree the rules are written horridly, but lets keep it real, this thing isn't ment to be taken that seriously, anyone wanting to pay over 5 times the cost of an aegis can be my guest lol. Or you could spend those points on a void shield generator which is good, and less.

Looks awesome though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Pathfinders are going to be scary on this thing.

lol, really? Explain, because I don't see it. If this thing is able to move them any meaningful distance then I feel bad for your opponent because he's playing against Tau on a naked table. Also how is making them +265pts helping their role?

Insane cover saves. Some limited extra mobility. Ability for many models to deflect shots back at the enemy. Pathfinders can move and markerlight now meaning I don't have to spend as much as other more expensive options freeing up a lot of my heavy support slots (on a cad) for me to take more Broadsides which go on the defense line. I can deploy closer to the front and move back while still firing guns that otherwise can't. Then a whole bunch of ML drones since they seem to be the only worthwhile choice.

I don't play on an open table, but there is usually enough room to make some movement with this possible.

On top of that throw up a decent turret and the ability to reroll one's on ranged attacks?? Pathfinders can use their special weapons now and its viable thanks to rerolling gets hot.

Alone or even with a little less and it would be alright, but as it is? This all adds up to a lot of extra DPT on an enemy army.

I can slap a Stormsurge or Ta'unar near it so that some attacks hitting it would allow it to also benefit from deflecting shots? Hell yes son. This thing is inanely good. Maybe not in all situations against all enemies, but certainly in a large chunk of situations it's going to be an amazing piece. This and some Ghostkeels? Unstoppable and insane firepower.

Those one's add up Jerry. The odd deflect attack that gets through is going to be adding value on this thing. The extra attack that hits thanks to that reroll is great. The extra units that survive thanks to its insane cover bonus. A 2+ with go to ground. It's a combined effect that makes it insane. There are no rules saying that after set up they have to stick together when moving. Leap frogging cover and terrain all over the place will be a nightmare.

It has to stay in the same configuration if you move it.
Also it depends how much of a Stormsurge/Ta'unar it can cover, if it's not 25% then you won't get a cover save (not to mention the amount of ignore cover flying about).
A 5+ cover save isn't much to write home about, unless the Tau codex has ways of buffing cover saves for units that would occupy it. Even going to ground only gives +1 and seriously hampers your shooting. It may be a defence line like an ADL, but it doesn't have the same cover providing rules as a ADL.

As someone else already corrected you regarding what a Defence Line constitutes regarding cover saves, I'll address your other point. Having seen the Stormsurge model in person and looking at the height of a Tidewall Rampart relative to other models in images (remembering that it floats), I would say that as long as you build your Stormsurges with the anchors deployed (i.e. crouching) they should be 25% obscured. This is quite funny in retrospect for my gaming group as both Stormsurges that have been built so far have been modified to stand up I have no idea how it moving with a Stormsurge on top of it would work but it would be damned amusing. The main use I see for this is solving the range limitations of certain Tau units, namely Broadsides. If you don't get what I mean, Broadsides generally have to be deployed hidden or far back to stay out of range of any dedicated shooting so they don't just get murdered on the first turn against other armies with similar weapon ranges. The benefits from this are pretty obvious in that regard.

Generally speaking, I would like to say "I told you so" regarding it moving but I'm not so prideful. Instead I'm going to have a long chat with my Tau-playing buddies to see if they like it and will report our findings.

Funnily enough the Drone thingy part of the Tidewall Rampart might be its most valuable piece in the context of the current codex, 60 points for a big cover-generator that also provides four Drones - themselves currently valued at 56 points. Paying 4 points over the Drones to get a big source of cover? HELL YES!

No please do, I love the feeling of embarassment when I'm wrong Just looked it up and it is as Sinister Samurai said, my bad.
That said, the Riptide and co get a cover save from it as they are MC/GC and due to the wonky rules regarding them (ie a toe in ruins for a 4+) there is no reason why they don't get a 4+ from being behind it.

It still has to stay together. I wasn't entirely wrong.

Caederes wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
First thoughts on rules I've seen. Unless breachers have other rules besides new gun they are only viable as a tax and bubble wrap.

Stormsurge is good. Do NOT get the D weapon. It's not a wraithknight I'm sorry.


Ghostkeel really depends. A melta blast is pretty stupid for 120 pts but it could be could. All equivalent pts costed models with 1 or 2 melta shots suck though so... it could take a bit

The box set with the pirhana and pathfinders is offensive. It's the models everyone already has and they have seen 0 competitive play ever. (Or at least in forever).

Really excited for the release actually

General consensus seems to line up with what you said, though with two addendums; Breachers could be really good if Devilfishes improve a lot, Ghostkeels are best served taking the Cyclic Ion Raker.

Come to think of it I find the comparison between a Fusion Collider Ghostkeel to a Devil Dog to be....depressing :( More expensive, wayyyyyyy easier to destroy, 6" more on the range and having Fast instead of Jet Pack. Ugh. And that's likely not the best use of a Ghostkeel anyway.

I agree I said the same thing to my friend the other day if devilfish and just saw the cyclic ion raker... it's okay. I can see the use now just hard to see how it can be better than broadsides it's less shots per pt and you basically always get them with tankhunter. We'll see. Could be awesome, but I don't really do 24" on Tau. My other armies I do but... I tend to try to guarantee as many shots fired without return fire as possible with Tau by deployment and kiting well. The jetpack nature could compensate we'll see. If it's T5 I'll be a hard sell. Since broadsides should be anyway, but formation rules really could make a big difference

 Sidstyler wrote:
Oh, and as if to add insult to injury, I keep getting e-mails from GW reminding me to complete my order for the Tidewall, which sold out while I was in the process of checking out. I guess it's still somehow showing as being in my basket or something, and it's causing me to get e-mail reminders, even though there's nothing in my basket on the website.

Wow. What a farce.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
There is a different special rule that allows the 2+ for going to ground, damned if I can remember the name but it isn't on these walls.

Yup. It's part of the rules for Defense Lines. let's run the number again with the 2+ GtG.

Chances of a Space Marine killing himself with his own bolter on the reflection (rapid-firing, 2+ cover save): just under 6.2%. Still not buying the threat from the barrier reflection.

And on average the same Marine will kill 0.15 FWs when shooting. So on average a marine firing bolters will barely do more points of damage than what they will lose to their own fire. If you fire with plasma then you will lose more points on average than you kill.