Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kirasu wrote:
Innovative? It's a total slap in the face to their players. If it's true, this is a step up in both fleecing the players and abdicating rule creation duties.

Amazing people can possibly defend this.

You do know they're still changing things on the older units, they're just providing two avenues into obtaining the new rules for the army.

Caederes wrote:
It would also give a sigh of relief to everyone I know. Tau are still a strong codex compared to most others and simply giving them new units, formations and the Hunter Cadre detachment thing would be boosting them obviously. However people forget there are a lot of crappy/mediocre Tau units that keep the codex as relattively mono-build competitively. Would of sucked for players looking to vary their builds up without resorting to buying the new models.

Agreed. Honestly the meta seems to have the strongest 4 "units" in the codex (including FS) as the Buffmander, Riptide, Troop Choice Crisis Suits, and Skyrays. Arguably you could put Broadsides in there, but I have always felt they are not mobile enough to fit the other big 4 and their strengths. IF, and that's a huge IF, those 4 core units are not being changed... well then yes this will likely be a buff. Mechanics wise, I'd lump Markerlights in there as well - if they stay the same then we will continue having a very reliable way to buff our units and make up for the lack of psychic mechanics.

For instance, firewarriors are great in theory and for friendly games but they just evaporate in competitive games and if the two new versions make them more dynamic and usable, then you may see them come out to play and knock the outflanking kroot out of the filler troop spot they're in. And even if it doesn't, there really is no harm to the existing Tau lineup in a competitive sense. Meanwhile the new suit types could potentially fill in some of the holes that are missing solutions for the Tau. For instance, super hard hitting/resiliant cav (Lookin' at you Thunderwolf cav), obscenely resilient 'Crons, and Invisible Grav-Stars mixed in with minority solid melee (Draigo and Librarians) and a few strong tanks (Grey Knights). Each existing Tau solution to these fails miserably at handling/responding to the current tournament meta.

If however we're reading too far into this "you only need current codex + supplement to have all of the rules" then who knows! Anyway, very intriguing late night news.

So regarding the base changes...

Crisis suits are on 50mm bases, Commanders on 60mm, what did the stealth suits goto? just the regular medium base or the space marine base between medium and the small one?

60mm is seriously too damn big a base...

Stealth Suits are on 32mms.

Damn, i need so many special sized bases

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Damn, i need so many special sized bases

Somewhere I'm fairly certain a good number of space marine/BA players are rolling their eyes at Tau players complaining about having to now buy new base sizes

GreyDragoon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Damn, i need so many special sized bases

Somewhere I'm fairly certain a good number of space marine/BA players are rolling their eyes at Tau players complaining about having to now buy new base sizes

I didn't have to buy any new bases for my Raptors. I did, however, choose to. Nobody's going to force you to rebase your stuff.

Triszin wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:

LE Codex

Codex

can anyone translate what comes with the collectors codex?

What the second book? is that the kaylon book?

Who gives a gak, its $180.

For a book.

and a mercedes suv is $150k. For a car that will never leave the road. what the heck?



I have a silly amount of tau, and am not rebasing anything.

While I can admit some selected units do look better on bigger bases (I think a crisis might look good on a 50mm) I overall feel its just a ploy from gw to get us to buy stuff.

Speaking of bases - do we have confirmation on the base size for the firewarrior turret? I looks like it might be 40mm....hard to tell.

It's a 40mm base. You can look at the product description and it lists the bases.

 McNinja wrote:
Who gives a gak, its $180.

For a book.

$180 is not inherently wrong for a book. The problem with GW's limited-edition books is that they do nothing to justify their price. A fancy cover and a box to put the book in doesn't add $100+ worth of value to a book with an ever-declining amount of fluff and some rules that will be obsolete within a year or two. I would pay $180 for some books (real or wished-for), just not a GW limited-edition rulebook.

davethepak wrote:
and a mercedes suv is $150k. For a car that will never leave the road. what the heck?



I have a silly amount of tau, and am not rebasing anything.

While I can admit some selected units do look better on bigger bases (I think a crisis might look good on a 50mm) I overall feel its just a ploy from gw to get us to buy stuff.

Speaking of bases - do we have confirmation on the base size for the firewarrior turret? I looks like it might be 40mm....hard to tell.

Assuming the SUVs are made to go off-roading is absurd. The new Tesla SUV is the same price and will never go off roading either, but then again no one goes off-roading with their daily vehicles because of things like wanting to keep your car in good working condition for longer than a year. That's not even a thing car companies talk about anymore. If you want to go off roading, grab an ATV and have a blast. they're like 1/10th the cost.

Not only that, but comparing a luxury SUV to a fething book is even more absurd. The book only looks flashier, it doesn't actually add anything to the game. You don't get extra features for your army through the limited edition, you just spend more money. With a luxury SUV, not only does it function as a vehicle, it is far more comfortable, easier to drive, safer, presumably has a sweet sound system, and is generally better in every way than, say, a Mazda3. You're not wasting your money unless you never drive it.

With this Tau limited edition book, you're wasting your money. It doesn't matter how hard the Tau make you, you're paying more money for the same thing everyone else is getting, it just looks better because someone decided to spend the extra 10 minutes in Photoshop touching it up.

To be fair, it's not JUST a book. It's got objective markers, limited edition datacards, a smaller fluff book, and I think that covers it. Still very expensive though.

At 180$, that's absolutely absurd, and this is something I actually wanted to buy before seeing the price.

Objective markers, limited edition art data cards, and such should just be things they give out as encouragements for people to play their game, like MTG FNM promos, not something they value at 100$.

Noctem wrote:
To be fair, it's not JUST a book. It's got objective markers, limited edition datacards, a smaller fluff book, and I think that covers it. Still very expensive though.

Ah, my bad.

It would need to have a GhostKeel included just to make me feel like it was worth it. And considering that's ~130$ more than the codex to get a nicer cover, a box, a GhostKeel, some cards/markers, and a tiny fluff book.. I'd be hard pressed to care enough then.

But whatever, they aren't going to give a free model of anything away for their limited edition books. That would just make sense, and we all know GW's policy on shenanigans like that.

GreyDragoon wrote:
It would need to have a GhostKeel included just to make me feel like it was worth it. And considering that's ~130$ more than the codex to get a nicer cover, a box, a GhostKeel, some cards/markers, and a tiny fluff book.. I'd be hard pressed to care enough then.

But whatever, they aren't going to give a free model of anything away for their limited edition books. That would just make sense, and we all know GW's policy on shenanigans like that.

These things are just for collectors, the most dedicated fans of that faction, and gifts. There is no practical purpose to it, no "sense" to it, other than, "Oh, that's nicer, and price doesn't matter". Since they sell out every single LE codex, obviously, there's a market for it.

The weird thing about including a model is that something like Dark Vengeance had unique models, and an awesome unique Hellbrute, but cost less than almost any other product out there.

Putting a unique Ghostkeel in the limited edition codex release would be amazing, whereas putting it into something like Dark Vengeance is silly as there's already a discount on models there. It's like why put the cool thing in a cheap box, instead of letting the cheap box sell because it's cheap, while making the expensive thing have the cool model.

 McNinja wrote:

...but then again no one goes off-roading with their daily vehicles because of things like wanting to keep your car in good working condition for longer than a year. That's not even a thing car companies talk about anymore. If you want to go off roading, grab an ATV and have a blast. they're like 1/10th the cost.

Um, what? I currently have a Jeep for my daily car. My previous cars have all been Subarus. I'm looking at another Subie. Not only is offroad capability a major selling point for these vehicles, it's in their design. Does not hurt them one bit. Little soap and water and they're good as new.

To further this analogy, GW's books aren't Subies or Jeeps. They're more like Toyota Corrolas or Chevy Cruze, and should priced appropriately.

Also, go to Iraq, Kuwait, or the UAE and you'll see plenty of those fancy Mercedes SUVs tearing it up offroad. I imagine Saudi is the same way, but I've never been there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talys wrote:

GreyDragoon wrote:
It would need to have a GhostKeel included just to make me feel like it was worth it. And considering that's ~130$ more than the codex to get a nicer cover, a box, a GhostKeel, some cards/markers, and a tiny fluff book.. I'd be hard pressed to care enough then.

But whatever, they aren't going to give a free model of anything away for their limited edition books. That would just make sense, and we all know GW's policy on shenanigans like that.

These things are just for collectors, the most dedicated fans of that faction, and gifts. There is no practical purpose to it, no "sense" to it, other than, "Oh, that's nicer, and price doesn't matter". Since they sell out every single LE codex, obviously, there's a market for it.

You know, I bought the gamer edition of the 6E rulebook. It cost more, but it came with some nifty dice and other trinkets, and a (I'm assuming fake) leather messenger bag for carrying the book. I was amazingly upset when the book only lasted like two years.

I still use the bag for my computer.

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out, but assuming that it's correct that you get all the rules with 6e coudex + Kauyon campaign book...

Kauyon is $74.00
Codex Tau is $49.50

So... if you are not interested in the campaign, you're still better off getting the Codex. You'll just have one book to lug around, and you won't have to deal with "this book for the more updated version of that model" or "that model is in this book". Plus, there's probably new pictures, fluff, and all that.

Again, assuming that the German translation is accurate, I'm not sure which I'd buy; probably, in the end, both, frankly. I just can't see myself not buying the new Tau codex, even if 6e+Kauyon would give me all of the rules part of it. If there's Space Marine stuff in Kauyon, I can't see myself not buying that. So... :X


Automatically Appended Next Post:

maceria wrote:

You know, I bought the gamer edition of the 6E rulebook. It cost more, but it came with some nifty dice and other trinkets, and a (I'm assuming fake) leather messenger bag for carrying the book. I was amazingly upset when the book only lasted like two years.

I still use the bag for my computer.

But if the rumors are true, you can still use the 6e version Just buy WZ Damocles: Kauyon.

No, the BRB, not Tau special edition codex.

You're right about the prices. I'll probably just get the codex. That price difference is like 1/4 a bottle of good Scotch. Or a whole bottle of terrible scotch!

maceria wrote:



You know, I bought the gamer edition of the 6E rulebook. It cost more, but it came with some nifty dice and other trinkets, and a (I'm assuming fake) leather messenger bag for carrying the book. I was amazingly upset when the book only lasted like two years.

I still use the bag for my computer.

See, for 180$, if it came with a nice purse (messenger bag), I'd totally buy into it. I bought my last one for like 30$ and used it until it's now just falling apart and I need a new one, but if they just made it simple, as in a Tau symbol on it, without the brand labels, I'd buy it for that cost with the rule book. It's that the stuff included with the special rule book is so junky, it feels like throw in goodies you'd get as promotional items, not as premium products.

Heck, I'd even buy it if it was a slightly unique Ghostkeel, all that stuff it has now, some dice, and the book + campaign (not the full book with fluff, but a data sheet), as that's great value.

 McNinja wrote:
The book only looks flashier, it doesn't actually add anything to the game. You don't get extra features for your army through the limited edition, you just spend more money.

Books can have value beyond the practical use of the material they contain. Again, the problem with GW's limited-edition books isn't some fundamental wrongness about expensive books, it's that GW's limited-edition books just don't live up to what you'd expect from such an expensive purchase. A limited-edition GW book isn't going to be the kind of thing you put in a prominent place on your bookshelf and treasure for the rest of your life, like you might with a rare first-edition copy of your favorite novel.

I've now read through the WD (in English this time) pretty thoroughly, so ask questions if you like and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I'll write up my observations in a longer post as well.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I've now read through the WD (in English this time) pretty thoroughly, so ask questions if you like and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I'll write up my observations in a longer post as well.

How much changes to the base codex does it imply? I know it's probably not in the WD issue, but does it sound like Vespids, Stealth Suits, and Kroot are getting changed?

IF (another big IF) the StormSurge's are going to have access to the 4++ Shield Generator as support gear (they can take up to 3) this is going to vastly change my perception of them and to using them as a mid-table grabbing unit. 8 wounds is a pain in the ass to chew through with a 3+/4++ and a 5+FNP to back it up. Of course dice happens.. but man. That's enough to soak an entire grav cent squad's shooting and reliably shrug it off if they don't have re-roll to hit, or be at just shy of 8 wounds if they do. And if you had to charge a melee star with one or two of these things, there's a chance in hell it actually gets to start throwing stomps around. After they've been softened up with some D shots of course.

Right, observations:

I can confirm that the WD indeed describes the new codex as an 'update' of the old one, and that if you wish you can simply buy the Kauyon campaign supplement and use it alongside the old one instead of buying the new codex.


However, I think they've done themselves a disservice with that description - it implies that you can just as easily use the old 'dex alongside the campaign supplement instead of using the new codex, thus also implying that the changes in the codex are minor and perhaps insignificant. However, none of the other descriptions of the new codex support this implication; there are significant changes in the new book, the Hunter Contingent Detachment and the 9 formations being just one of them. They'd also need to change the wargear section to reflect the new battlesuit choices available, and display an updated Fire Warrior datasheet. Basically, even though they promote it as an option, I think keeping your old 'dex and using the supplement would be far more difficult (due to having to keep track of the multitude of minor changes the supplement has) than just getting the new version of the Codex.

The new codex is stated to be 128 pages, in comparison to the 104 page one we have currently. Assuming the new detachment goes over two pages (as previous faction's variants have done) and the 9 additional formations take up a page each, we're left with 13 unassigned pages. The new releases (stormsurge, ghostkeel, tidewall, breacher FWs) take up another 4, with the Coldstar commander being absorbed by the existing Commander entry. That leaves 9 unassigned pages as far as I can tell but I may well have forgotten something.

In the description of the new Commander kit it goes into more detail on the Enforcer and Coldstar variants - the Enforcer is described as being able to hold more weapon, support, and signature systems over the basic Crisis suit and the Coldstar.

Iridium as an option is still in there and is still a Signature system.

More info can be provided if requested.

maceria wrote:
No, the BRB, not Tau special edition codex.

You're right about the prices. I'll probably just get the codex. That price difference is like 1/4 a bottle of good Scotch. Or a whole bottle of terrible scotch!

Ahhh... I misunderstood. I feel bad for anyone who got 6e LE :X

You guys have it good with booze down south. $25 barely gets you half a bottle of terrible Scotch up here (we have a lot of ridiculous liquor taxes)


@Dr. Delorean -- TY, that makes sense. I guess choices are good. I'm pretty sure that I'll just buy the new codex, and let the Tau player in our group buy the campaign book

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
I've now read through the WD (in English this time) pretty thoroughly, so ask questions if you like and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I'll write up my observations in a longer post as well.

How much changes to the base codex does it imply? I know it's probably not in the WD issue, but does it sound like Vespids, Stealth Suits, and Kroot are getting changed?

There was nothing specific about Vespids, Stealth Suits, or Kroot. The changes to the base codex are essentially the new models being added in, everything being presented in their new datasheet format, and the addition of the Hunter Contingent Detachment and the Formations. Thus, I would not expect to see any of the three units you mention be changed in terms of statline. They may well be included in formations, however. Seeing as the Wargear section needs to be changed anyway, it is possible their weapons/options would be modified.

@Dr. Delorean: Thanks for doing this for us! Here are my questions:

As far as you can tell, have any army-wide special rules (such as Supporting Fire) changed significantly?

Are Markerlights the same as the previous Tau codex, or have they changed?

What sort of benefits due the new formations/Hunter Cadre provide?

Are Signature Systems limited to one per model, or can models take multiple Signature Systems?