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 tetrisphreak wrote:
The ability to combine fire with a hunter contingent makes 9 suit squads kinda unnecessary

Not really. You don't just get combined shooting, you also get way better FOC slot efficiency (at the cost of MSU). If you're taking nine crisis suits then putting all of them into a single unit keeps your other slots free for Riptides or whatever.

I checked that English rules leak, it confirms our fears that the Buffmander affects the "combined shooting". Death-stars are going to be sweating really hard when a potential entire army gets re-rolls to-hit, Ignores Cover, Monster/Tank Hunter, etc. One thing I noticed is that even though Darkstrider can't be taken as part of the Hunter Contingent, if you take a CAD alongside the HC you can put Darkstrider in a unit and his Structural Analyzer will still affect the shooting attack. Take that Thunderdome! Just make sure to get a few Markerlight hits on the unit (assuming Invisibility) through a bunch of Pathfinders/Tetras/etc and you should be good as even 1-2 tokens will see them firing at BS3 with re-rolls to-hit.

 Peregrine wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The ability to combine fire with a hunter contingent makes 9 suit squads kinda unnecessary

Not really. You don't just get combined shooting, you also get way better FOC slot efficiency (at the cost of MSU). If you're taking nine crisis suits then putting all of them into a single unit keeps your other slots free for Riptides or whatever.

I get that. I do. But with the formations available we may as well have 10 elite slots. In a CAD this makes total sense and is awesome, in a hunter contingent with a retaliation cadre it's not inherently necessary. 9 shas'ui before upgrades is 198 and with typical wargear will go into the 550+ point range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Caederes wrote:
I checked that English rules leak, it confirms our fears that the Buffmander affects the "combined shooting". Death-stars are going to be sweating really hard when a potential entire army gets re-rolls to-hit, Ignores Cover, Monster/Tank Hunter, etc. One thing I noticed is that even though Darkstrider can't be taken as part of the Hunter Contingent, if you take a CAD alongside the HC you can put Darkstrider in a unit and his Structural Analyzer will still affect the shooting attack. Take that Thunderdome! Just make sure to get a few Markerlight hits on the unit (assuming Invisibility) through a bunch of Pathfinders/Tetras/etc and you should be good as even 1-2 tokens will see them firing at BS3 with re-rolls to-hit.

Yep. Tossing in a CAD for 90 pts plus dark strider isn't bad. Plus he can join fire warriors or pathfinders.

The main benefit I see of the 9-strong XV8 teams is that the Farsight Bomb got a whole lot cheaper, no more having to pay the "bodyguard" tax (meaning a 9-strong squad saves 90 points).

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Mr. Oddity wrote:
Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.

Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.

It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?

Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?

No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army detachment. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
The Tau aren't grimdark, just imperialistic.

No, the Tau themselves aren't. But the fact that the one tiny little scrap of hope in the entire setting is a race whose primary virtue is being pragmatic enough to build a better gun and then offer you a chance to submit to slavery before killing you. That's way more grimdark than LOLOLOL MORE SKULLS PER SQUARE INCH ON EVERYTHING!!!

It's not slavery, it's being colonized, there's quite a big difference. In fact according to some of the lore, the Gue'vesa can be found on almost every Tau planet (including T'au itself) and are mostly treated as full citizens of the Tau empire.

I get it, in modern cinema anything imperialistic is synonymous with being evil, but it's usually not the imperialism itself that makes the empire evil, but rather the evil death wizards in their planet killing Deathstar, as in the case of Star Wars.

Edit: In fact, in several cases the Tau didn't just show up and say "join or die" but rather initiated trade, and over time convinced the population it was simply better to join their empire, as opposed to being a separate entity that just happened to be a trade partner. There's a reason these planets agree without any real threat of violence.

 Nilok wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Mr. Oddity wrote:
Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.

Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.

It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?

Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?

No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?

Farsight himself isn't in any of the formations. Making crisis suits troops only matters in a CAD.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Mr. Oddity wrote:
Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.

Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.

It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?

Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?

No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?

Farsight himself isn't in any of the formations. Making crisis suits troops only matters in a CAD.

While it is true the Crisis suits as troops is wasted and are still required to take a three man unit, you are not required to field Farsight in an enclaves detachment (though I hope you can still field him in a Contingent since he was a godsend for deep striking crisis teams).

HA! 54 XV8 with OBSEC.

maceria wrote:
HA! 54 XV8 with OBSEC.

Great for APOC due to points...not really conceivable at 1850 pts

maceria wrote:HA! 54 XV8 with OBSEC.

tetrisphreak wrote:

maceria wrote:
HA! 54 XV8 with OBSEC.

Great for APOC due to points...not really conceivable at 1850 pts

Ya, even with just a single missile pod each, you're looking at 1998 points...
Also the Farsight Enclaves supplement requires a single three man crisis team, so the real limit is 48, so 1776 points.

No, absolutely silly.

So i just played a 3300pt game (max points we could both do) with my Stormsurge. Didnt field the ghostkeels since im still painting them.

That thing is ridiculous. I went against necrons and he used the 4+ Reanimation formation + a Ctan. Rest of his army was a TON of immortals and destroyers with a handful of tomb blades. Ton of Lords too.

Turn 1 was basically a solid wiff. My entire army did 1 damage to a Monolith via bad Destroyer missile luck and took out ~5 warriors lol. Turn 2 onward....holy crap the Stormsurge just completely WRECKED his army almost on his own. Being able to fire multiple S10 large blasts at two different units on its own was insane, nevermind the gakload of missiles + airburster lol.

Stormsurge cost me 438pts to field. It easily cleared ~700pts with minimal ML support (since it was firing at way more targest than i could possibly mark up). Only reason it didnt kill his Ctan is because i wanted to see that thing fight the Stormsurge in melee - 4 rounds later he finally took the stormsurge out by a hair lol, We already said i won at that point so that was just for fun.

Im never fielding that thing until i hit 3k points or more. Fielding a stormsurge at 2k points or less is seriously a bigger dick move than a Riptide in a sub-1k list.

@Vineheart01
Were you using the now confirmed rule leaks for the game, or just the current rules with the Stormsurge (meaning no Destroyer-strength missiles)?

That about lines up with all of my experiences playing against or observing it so far, and yet there are still people that say it is "merely solid" or weak. It has made its points back in every game I've personally been involved in or watched so far!

1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better

 Nilok wrote:

Also the Farsight Enclaves supplement requires a single three man crisis team, so the real limit is 48, so 1776 points.

Perfect for that game on July 4th!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
So i just played a 3300pt game (max points we could both do) with my Stormsurge. Didnt field the ghostkeels since im still painting them.

That thing is ridiculous. I went against necrons and he used the 4+ Reanimation formation + a Ctan. Rest of his army was a TON of immortals and destroyers with a handful of tomb blades. Ton of Lords too.

Turn 1 was basically a solid wiff. My entire army did 1 damage to a Monolith via bad Destroyer missile luck and took out ~5 warriors lol. Turn 2 onward....holy crap the Stormsurge just completely WRECKED his army almost on his own. Being able to fire multiple S10 large blasts at two different units on its own was insane, nevermind the gakload of missiles + airburster lol.

Stormsurge cost me 438pts to field. It easily cleared ~700pts with minimal ML support (since it was firing at way more targest than i could possibly mark up). Only reason it didnt kill his Ctan is because i wanted to see that thing fight the Stormsurge in melee - 4 rounds later he finally took the stormsurge out by a hair lol, We already said i won at that point so that was just for fun.

Im never fielding that thing until i hit 3k points or more. Fielding a stormsurge at 2k points or less is seriously a bigger dick move than a Riptide in a sub-1k list.

Both of the S10 blasts were from one weapon, right? How did you fire them at different targets? Each weapon can be fired at different targets, but I'm pretty sure all shots from a single weapon go to the same target.

I used ML to fire Str D missiles but all i did was it changed the profile, they still fired normally otherwise (BS3 + whatever extra ML i had, not ignoring cover). However that was actually a nonfactor. I straight up missed two of them and only did 1 damage with the other, and thats with heavy ML support. The forth one i Deathblowed a monolith, but aside from that it was primarily his S10 large blasts and gakload of missiles doing the damage via Stabilizers.

I wouldnt be surprised if i did something wrong since i only had the fuzzy rules, so i was going off what i remember reading for it (fire weapons twice, counts as separate shooting attack)

Also i did NOT use the Ethereal rule loophole with his pulse cannon. I am positive thats a loophole, otherwise you can literally spend 50pts to make it fire 3 large blast S10 AP2 Ordnance shots at 36". Everyone agreed with me that it has to be a rule oversight and wasnt intended because thats just nuts.

maceria wrote:

Both of the S10 blasts were from one weapon, right? How did you fire them at different targets? Each weapon can be fired at different targets, but I'm pretty sure all shots from a single weapon go to the same target.

Stabilizers. Fire the weapon twice, counts as a separate shooting action. Unless i misread the fuzzy rules, that means i need more markerlight support on the same target and i can change targets.
Also i was scattering like a mofo lol

Well that wasent really a typical necron list. At 3300 points he could have comfortably ran 18 wraiths, which would have probably tied him up all game.

Who the heck has 18 wraiths? lol my 2 necron friends could field 12 if they pooled together.
But no he didnt have any wraiths. If he did i would have focus fired the gak out of them because even in the old rules they scared the piss outta me.

 Orock wrote:
Well that wasent really a typical necron list. At 3300 points he could have comfortably ran 18 wraiths, which would have probably tied him up all game.

I think this is really highlighting the problem: the only counter is to use the most powerful Necron unit, and any list that didn't bring wraiths is "not typical" and probably doomed. There's a huge problem when you have to make sure that your opponent is bringing a powerful list before you can put your shiny new toy on the table.

 Vector Strike wrote:
1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better

Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.

Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.

CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.

AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol

A tad late, but thanks for the info Tetrisphreak.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.

AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol

Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.

@Vineheart01

Don't worry, you got the rule with Stabilizing Anchors right. It's a separate shooting attack made after the first meaning that you get to resolve your shots at different targets with the same weapons. Kinda funny to see that your Destroyer Missiles whiffed, though getting a Deathblow on a Monolith is obviously no joke as that is a 2nd-century (tsktsk) death right there!

 Mr. Oddity wrote:
A tad late, but thanks for the info Tetrisphreak.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.

AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol

Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.

Or you can just clearly state that these models have Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors. You don't have to make everything WYSIWYG. If you do, scratch building is the way to go.

 Nilok wrote:

 Mr. Oddity wrote:
A tad late, but thanks for the info Tetrisphreak.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.

AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol

Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.

Or you can just clearly state that these models have Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors. You don't have to make everything WYSIWYG. If you do, scratch building is the way to go.

Right, I kinda...forgot about counts-as. I'm mainly in the hobby for the modelling aspect, so I'm the kind of guy who would take the time to make the extras. My bad.

Courtesy of the Tau Facebook groups.

Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?

Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.

Tinkrr wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better

Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.

Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.

Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.

Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.

Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Tinkrr wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better

Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.

Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.

Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.

Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.

Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.

Broadsides aren't mobile UNLESS YOU DEEPSTRIKE THEM!