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Quick question...

Did anything, anything at all, in the tau army get WORSE?

Any abilities lost, any points increased?

 Gamgee wrote:
They don't what? They fething put out D shots man. D SHOTS!

This guy has GOT to be a troll. No one sane would deny the SS is now really good because of the D missiles.

Also they don't replace anything but supplement every niche of your army as well as offer D shots. Which is why you don't want too many SS too point intensive. Nothing is stopping you from fielding both an SS and tons of Broadsides and Riptides.

IM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME. THE STORMSURGE IS GOOD. I've said it in every single post almost. Reading comprehension FTW. Also Gargantuans can still only fire two of it's weapons in a lot of circles of players right? There is no definitive ruling there unless it's new so im some circles it's the worst model in the game for it's points. But with the rules most people use it's pretty strong


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Trasvi wrote:
Quick question...

Did anything, anything at all, in the tau army get WORSE?

Any abilities lost, any points increased?

The firebase cadre. The most competitive thing until this book drops. Besides that no it just didn't take them to competitve level of the other new books

Actually WD has said there will be a FAQ saying they can. Frontline gaming has also ruled it so.

There are die hard who try and twist it to their end, but they'll be poked off soon enough.

Edit
Your going to see Tau roll over tournaments and make a good impression at the big ones. Also the best of the best Tau tournament players used FSE/TE combo and now TE can do all of that and more in one book. I can see your a trend follower mein friend. Not a trend setter. You look for the best net list, use zero creativity and hunker down in the long run. It's okay not everyone has the ability to see beyond the now.

That's good I feel that ruling is correct and necessarry to not break models like tht and make them worthless


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I'm saying they made it so the new models are absolute necessities. Not just that they are good and new so I want them. If you take the game serious you have no choice if you want to play

No they didn't make lists like that. They were all FE and FBSC or TE and FBSC. There has not been one without it since it came out and there weren't any for like 7 months before it. Okay technically the FBSC is TE but it sounds like two CAD's the way you say it which is so far from ever being competitive at the moment.

jakejackjake wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
They don't what? They fething put out D shots man. D SHOTS!

This guy has GOT to be a troll. No one sane would deny the SS is now really good because of the D missiles.

Also they don't replace anything but supplement every niche of your army as well as offer D shots. Which is why you don't want too many SS too point intensive. Nothing is stopping you from fielding both an SS and tons of Broadsides and Riptides.

IM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME. THE STORMSURGE IS GOOD. I've said it in every single post almost. Reading comprehension FTW. Also Gargantuans can still only fire two of it's weapons in a lot of circles of players right? There is no definitive ruling there unless it's new so im some circles it's the worst model in the game for it's points. But with the rules most people use it's pretty strong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trasvi wrote:
Quick question...

Did anything, anything at all, in the tau army get WORSE?

Any abilities lost, any points increased?

The firebase cadre. The most competitive thing until this book drops. Besides that no it just didn't take them to competitve level of the other new books

Also, why do you say the coldstar commander sucks?

All this Tau book is going to do is drive the final nail in the Vehicle coffin.

We can only hope it kills Wraithknights too.

Because he does. He's a free point to the enemy if they have a good way to take him down and a good list could basically ignore him otherwise. Unless you're going to make him a 300pt buffmander who can't shoot his guns, but that does not sound pts effiecient


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Books is super strong if you drop $600 bucks and start modeling and painting immediately and don't leave your house until 2017 you can play a game using the now outdated 7ed Tau codex. The money doesn't bother me. I was set to buy the limited edition codex and everything. The fact that it will be months before I can even field the full list is insane when I already have like 10 of everything or more from 6th. Its just crazy to me that it's the only book to have this happen. This is coming from someone who plays every single army that has a new book from Necrons on.

The reason broadsides aren't as good is because firebase isn't as good. Basically it makes you take more riptides per broadsides or forces you to shoot 600 pts or more at one unit. So basically it's worthless

I agree the coldstar is a disaster. No explanation needed.

jakejackjake wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
Whenever you used marker lights for them... They did nothing the army didn't already do in the next book besides add very costly big models. That's what I am saying

At no point in the history of the game have markerlights made broadsides relentless.

Unless you mean using MLs to increase the snap shot BS, in which case that's a waste of MLs.

They increase their ballistic which is not a waste at all. I think I'm arguing strat with people who have no idea how to beat someone good at this game. The broadside and riptides were the only two competitve units. Using markers anywhere else before you got enough for whatever you needed on them was would be a waste. Have you people ever even look at GT lists that have won for Tau?

Where are using the marker lights? Skyrays? Not competitvie... Crisis suits... maybe if you dont need them on rips or broads... hammerheads? If you field hammerheads youre not competitve. Fire warriors? lol Stealth suits? lol The flyers? OMG

In the 4e codex, there was a support system to make Broadsides Slow and Purposeful, which allowed them to move and shoot, at the cost of not being able to overwatch, which was removed in the 6e codex.
In the 7e codex, we have three replacement options. We can either place them on a Shieldline and have that move for them, we can place them in the deep strike formation which does give them relentless, or we can use them in the Hunter Cadre which allows them to run before shooting, which doesn't cause them to shoot snapshots.

In my games with the Riptide, it did some damage and was a great distraction, but it was my three man Crisis suit team with a Buffmander, which I called the Scalpel Team, that were the real stars of my army, detonating vehicles and shredding heavy infantry on landing, and the commander taking out enemy warlords Big O style with the Onagar Gauntlet. The Broadsides were good, but they are weight of fire and wait until the enemy fails their saves, while a correctly setup Crisis Team was feared by Eldar, IG, Necron, and Space Marine alike as they gutted everything they targeted.

With the ability to spread the Buffmander out between more units and use Split Fire, Target Locks, and the GC rule to spread out the fire from the main target, it will be even more potent. I imagine it would be the Tau version of the Dai Gurren-dan Shot from the first TTGL movie.

The idea you swap moving and shooting for the ability to overwatch on an army with supporting fire is just dumb. It's good they took it out since it shouldn't have been used.

Is running and shooting as good as tank hunter? Even if you have to bring a min of of 200 in tax...? No its not I don't think but it could be we will see.

Serious question since I don't have the screen shot here. is it 1-3 fast attack or does it mention specific options? Also you can't take tetras which is a big deal. No matter what pathfinders will always suck. They only get relentless if they deepstrike too which again is lolworthy

Gamgee wrote:I agree the coldstar is a disaster. No explanation needed.

jakejackjake wrote:Because he does. He's a free point to the enemy if they have a good way to take him down and a good list could basically ignore him otherwise. Unless you're going to make him a 300pt buffmander who can't shoot his guns, but that does not sound pts effiecient


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Books is super strong if you drop $600 bucks and start modeling and painting immediately and don't leave your house until 2017 you can play a game using the now outdated 7ed Tau codex. The money doesn't bother me. I was set to buy the limited edition codex and everything. The fact that it will be months before I can even field the full list is insane when I already have like 10 of everything or more from 6th. Its just crazy to me that it's the only book to have this happen

The reason broadsides aren't as good is because firebase isn't as good. Basically it makes you take more riptides per broadsides or forces you to shoot 600 pts or more at one unit. So basically it's worthless

I don't necessarily think he sucks, but running him solo is quite a point investment (like stormsurge points). I mean, you'd need the coldstar, iridium armor, shield generator, stims, although it's not clear to me if you can swap out the coldstar weapons.

Assuming you can't take sig systems or other weapons, the coldstar blows and isn't even really worth the paper the rules are printed on.

So now your complaint is that it costs money to play... 40k.

Please excuse me while I laugh in your general vicinity.


Whine and moan all you want. All the things that were in the book got better (including the FBSC despite your incorrect assertions) and the new things are also good. Tau is a strong book and probably a meta breaker. Just because it requires people to snag a few extra models doesn't change that fact.

Don't play a game like 40k aand then cry when they encourage you to buy more models. It's really poor form.

Lol at the firebase being better. It's not even good anymore. This looks to me to be without a doubt the most poorly done release since the new style of book started coming. The cover of the book is the prettiest though! I've gone through your strat posts for the last 10 minutes and sure man sure whatever you want to believe but I will no longer be tkaing you seriously when you tell someone a list with

You play necron as well and so do I. We disagree a lot there too on whats best.

jakejackjake wrote:
The idea you swap moving and shooting for the ability to overwatch on an army with supporting fire is just dumb. It's good they took it out since it shouldn't have been used.

Is running and shooting as good as tank hunter? Even if you have to bring a min of of 200 in tax...? No its not I don't think but it could be we will see.

Serious question since I don't have the screen shot here. is it 1-3 fast attack or does it mention specific options? Also you can't take tetras which is a big deal. No matter what pathfinders will always suck. They only get relentless if they deepstrike too which again is lolworthy

In the 4e Tau Codex, supporting fire did not exist, so it is a mute point. You also could not use markerlights to buff snapshots in the 4e codex.

Use the Buffmander and Target Locks to split the fire, give them Ignore Cover, and Tank Hunter or Monster Hunter? The Tau are built around cross unit support, don't expect it to just spoon feed it all to you, sometimes you actually need to look and plan your support in your army instead of just inside a single unit.

The Hunter Cadre is limited to exact choices, so no Forge World units. Most likely Forge World is going to release an errata/new Tau IA book to address this.

I will say its's... good. And it was "buffed" in a sense that it has monster hunter, but the fact that every model has to hit one target really does take away its effectiveness.

It's just not as good as it used to be. It is cheaper but it's not worth the effect of tank hunter/monster hunter on a few units when it was the weight of fire making those units in question good.

So you are right on the nail on the Coldstar and the Firebase. Which is rather funny since I started my Tau career by purchasing the original Firebase bundle a codex, and some FW.

I would rather have relentless broadsidess than forcing all of them to shoot at one target.

Also it's not the fact that it's relentless but it also deep strikes and makes them even better in that regard. Knights can be flanked now with Broadsides. Even if you don't want the Broadside you can just take one as a "tax" to have so much guaranteed XV8's drop on turn 2. Then field regular Broadside sin the Hunter Cadre.

TL mean no EWO... neither of those will confer either obv because they never do. THAT would be awesome. That would make this probably way too strong. If literally all special rules even those that didnt normal confer could confer to everything consolidating it's fire
Its cheaper if you remove massive amounts of firepower. The broadsides were in no way a tax. There was no reason to want to remove them. 6 isn't even enough in most lists. Honestly they should have just flat out gave it monster hunter. That would have been just about what it needed to be close to top tier

Also 0 reason to ever deepstrike a broadside if it didn't make them relentless they're insanely effective turn 1 and easy to give cover/invuls to In your last post this is really the only thing I don't agree with just because I can't see myself doing anything but deepstriking them to similar areas of the board I'd have deployed them anyway. I will absolutely never deepstrike broadsides to an enemy backfield or mid field unless the deployment is not dawn of war

Cliffnotes: of all posts. SS is good without it book is okay and you could beat people you outclass with the other books probably but not on equal footing codex vs codex I do actually think the ghostkeel can be used well too but again its just the new models and thats pretty much it.

Sorry for coming off as a combative jerk. I'm not going to make excuses I just come off that way at times. I probably am one and I apologize for that kind of attitude. It's not really necessary

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want some very basic missions, I guess?

But... but... but all that fluff!!!

Zelnik wrote:
Nifty piece of fluff. Kais is awake, and is leading the Ghostkeel teams.

Say again?

Uh is your native language English? Every time you post I feel twice as confused. If it's not I'm just going to leave. If it is I'm still going to leave, but recommend you brush up on your English skills. I have no idea what your trying to say.

I have to agree with jakejackjake here, in theory all this combined fire sounds nice, but when the hell do you ever use this? Other than firing at a deathstar or something, which I personally have never done. And even if you work around this with TL's, you are paying with TL's on almost every single model that can, and this adds up (in my 1500 points list I already didn't have room for them).

So can the coldstar take additional/replace his weapons and take signature systems, or no?

 Gamgee wrote:
Uh is your native language English? Every time you post I feel twice as confused. If it's not I'm just going to leave. If it is I'm still going to leave, but recommend you brush up on your English skills. I have no idea what your trying to say.

You're... not talking to me, are you?

jakejackjake wrote:
TL mean no EWO... it also means you have to decide if you're going to shoot it at another unit or not and stick to it, because regardless you have to nominate the unit the model with TL will shoot at as well before anyone in the unit actually rolls dice. TL's are great but it means larger units to take effect making the hunter cadre super expensive.

Or you can have your BS 3 Twin-Linked, Ignore Cover missile drone(s) fire at the main target and your Broadsides shoot everything else. The loss of EWO is a loss, but it functions better on the Riptide and Stormsurge. While the loss of S7 on the Stormsurge is hard, the sheer number of S5 shot, with the options of S10 and possibly S8 and room for Skyfire and an Invulnerable save, it should be a significant threat to any AV 11 vehicles (most flyers) and any infantry.

 McNinja wrote:
So can the coldstar take additional/replace his weapons and take signature systems, or no?

No, only two support systems.

jake is who I'm referring to. He has an unusual habit of combining two sentences into one sentence. It's very bizarre and confusing.

 Gamgee wrote:
Uh is your native language English? Every time you post I feel twice as confused. If it's not I'm just going to leave. If it is I'm still going to leave, but recommend you brush up on your English skills. I have no idea what your trying to say.

Okay first to the other guy I said "TL's mean no EWO"

Then to you I said it's cheaper for the FBSC but only at removal of some broadsides which you don't really want to remove. Consolidating three units firing on one is terrible. If the first one kills it you can't shoot the other two units. So against it's only really good at killing things you'd want three broadsides for. For the most part deepstriking broadsides is a terrible idea.

Then I said Cliffnotes: New codex looks meh besides the two new big suits

Then I said sorry if I was being combative, aggressive and jerky. I don't plan on ever posting in better grammar than that if it isn't something professional so if it still illegible that's fine

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you really want some very basic missions, I guess?

But... but... but all that fluff!!!

Zelnik wrote:
Nifty piece of fluff. Kais is awake, and is leading the Ghostkeel teams.

Say again?

The dude from the Dawn of War games is alive and well, facerolling with the Ghostkeels.

 Nilok wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
TL mean no EWO... it also means you have to decide if you're going to shoot it at another unit or not and stick to it, because regardless you have to nominate the unit the model with TL will shoot at as well before anyone in the unit actually rolls dice. TL's are great but it means larger units to take effect making the hunter cadre super expensive.

Or you can have your BS 3 Twin-Linked, Ignore Cover missile drone(s) fire at the main target and your Broadsides shoot everything else. The loss of EWO is a loss, but it functions better on the Riptide and Stormsurge. While the loss of S7 on the Stormsurge is hard, the sheer number of S5 shot, with the options of S10 and possibly S8 and room for Skyfire and an Invulnerable save, it should be a significant threat to any AV 11 vehicles (most flyers) and any infantry.

 McNinja wrote:
So can the coldstar take additional/replace his weapons and take signature systems, or no?

No, only two support systems.

You take drones with broadsides? Did they change in the new book because anyone competitve laughed at them in 6th so not sure if you mean to talk competitve lists or cool fluffy lists The EWO amazing on broadsides. It gives you target lock where you get to decide how many models and which of their guns you want to fire. It's incredibly amazing on broadsides. It's the only support system you should really every get on them in in TE6th nothing else at all is reasonable in a TAC list... nothing

 Nilok wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
So can the coldstar take additional/replace his weapons and take signature systems, or no?

No, only two support systems.

In that case, the only reason to take the coldstar is if you really wanted to move some ML drones across the field each turn. It can't be used offensively, because it sucks.

Okay that's all much more legible. Thanks. Maybe put a little @Gamgee or @ person whoever your individual sentences refer to. Helps a lot.

The new codex is meh because it's the same thing basically. You get much more bang for your buck in Kayon and using your old one. At least from that perspective. GW even sold it that way though so I'm not that disappointed now. I was when I thought we were going to get terrible formations that weren't good enough to buff our units to tournament play.

From a rules perspective many of the new formations are insane and will see high level play. Hunter Cadre+ Stormsurge for sure since it's our only really effective way to handle deathstars and Knights and equivalently strong things. On top of that it lets you field less in other departments of the army since you can now spend points on other things.

Nothing stopping you from taking 6 Broadsides with all of this crazy stuff. I know I'm going to.

So from the rules perspective it is very good. I just wish some of the units that needed buffs got them to make them more playable even if it was only for casual games.

Also when I was referring to the FBSC I should have specified that it's minimum cost is now cheaper since you can take it with 2 Broadsides and a Riptide. I then went on to say why that reduced initial cost is not a good idea and not enough of a buff to make up for the loss of individual unit targeting. Even with the addition of MH to the formation it's still nowhere near as good as it was when all your units could fire at different targets.

I wasn't disagreeing with you on the FSBC, what I did say though is since the FSBC is no longer that good I would rather have Broadsides of some kind in the Retaliation cadre since you will likely be hitting the rears of enemies.. Or if my build called for it just Broadsides and no Retaliation Cadre.

Retaliation Cadre has the potential to be tournament worthy, but that remains to be seen. It's one of the better formations we have.

Do I think it has a niche? Maybe. It's definitely not as good as sit used to be though.

I'm probably in the minority who thinks Str D is terrible for the regular points games and makes them more luck based on an individual game level(well that's not really an opinion it does increase the variance on an individual game level dramatically). In larger pts games this is negated by sheer size of the armies and the amount of dice rolled

I know I know GW doesn't care about the gamers just the modelers. I know they say it directly. I'm not surprised it just sucks for someone like me

You are. Nothing says you can't still drop some suits behind the target of the Str D shots to guarantee its death. I wouldn't rely on the SS alone in that regard. It also takes pressure off your other units. People are going to want to kill it fast, which lets you maneuver your agile forces better to strike the target of the D Weapon or just in general flanking the enemy to put pressure on him. There's too many additional benefits to the SS to not take one especially with the D shot missiles that makes it far more valuable than an entire team of broadsides.