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 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
The Codex specifically states Drones do not prevent a character from joining another unit. However if the Character dies the drones stay in that unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit...Ninja posters

Can a IC join a group of Drones do they form one unit to were you can then join it to another unit?

Only drones purchased as wargear allow the characters to drag them along into other units. Same as fenrisian wolves in the space wolves codex.

Drone units bought alone (ie from their dataslate in the fast attack slot or a formation) are their own unit.

Thanks, I was curious if I could do anything extra with the drones that come with O'Ralai. I Just had him leave that unit do he doesn't get the toughness loss and hide him in terrain.

Poor R'Alai has as special rule that prevents him from joining any units whatsoever. Until one of his piddly drones dies his unit is majority T4.

Yeah I just have him leave the drones behind. Wish I could have someone else Scoop them up.

Theres no rule that says you can do that either. he's stuck with them until they die.

I just want to be clear if buffmander is in a unit of three crisis suits that consolidate fire at one unit with two other units of three crisis suits he can transfer ALL of his buffs that transfer to his unit to them AND they can still use target lock to shoot somewhere else and just have like a drone shoot at the same target?

If so I take back everything I said about this book and it could be stronger than eldar. If I can potentially have a unit of 3 riptides with target lock all become twin-linked, ignore cover, BS5, and have tank/monster hunter from my buffmander and then 2 SS and a Ghostkeel getting similar buffs from a batman crisis suit then I was completely wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Girrrrrrrrrrr wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

*snip*

Strongly agree with your assesment, The way I see it what people are saying amounts to "a crisis suit that has a burst cannon and a missle pod is utter garbage" yea ok say that all you want guys.

no crisis suits in general were not amazing in 6th. They were okay. You didn't want more than 3-5 though. Riptides, broadsides and marker lights WERE the army. Missile pods were a great weapon the burst cannons were useless and people only used fusion blaster and it tended to be a weak point in their army

MSU spamming crisis suits would not work against a good opponent because every single other army was better at that.

jakejackjake wrote:
I just want to be clear if buffmander is in a unit of three crisis suits that consolidate fire at one unit with two other units of three crisis suits he can transfer ALL of his buffs that transfer to his unit to them AND they can still use target lock to shoot somewhere else and just have like a drone shoot at the same target?

If so I take back everything I said about this book and it could be stronger than eldar.

RAW - probably. RAI - in my opinion the combining fire units must all shoot at the same target without using target locks. No, this isn't RAW. I know that. However doing it as you've ascribed above with your entire army gets ridiculous pretty quick - way over eldar level IMO.

That being said, nothing is stopping you from taking a 9 man crisis team (they max at 9 suits now) with 3 commanders, 2 being shooty and 1 being a buffmander, and using his wargear to make them all twin link/ignore cover/tank hunter. Then you use that 12 man team (with gun drones why not) and obliterate every AV13 and lower tank in the enemy army on turn 1. No combined fire required so nobody can complain that your detachment is being used incorrectly.

Yeah book is only really good if they can do that otherwise its not quite up there besides the SS


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
I just want to be clear if buffmander is in a unit of three crisis suits that consolidate fire at one unit with two other units of three crisis suits he can transfer ALL of his buffs that transfer to his unit to them AND they can still use target lock to shoot somewhere else and just have like a drone shoot at the same target?

If so I take back everything I said about this book and it could be stronger than eldar.

RAW - probably. RAI - in my opinion the combining fire units must all shoot at the same target without using target locks. No, this isn't RAW. I know that. However doing it as you've ascribed above with your entire army gets ridiculous pretty quick - way over eldar level IMO.

That being said, nothing is stopping you from taking a 9 man crisis team (they max at 9 suits now) with 3 commanders, 2 being shooty and 1 being a buffmander, and using his wargear to make them all twin link/ignore cover/tank hunter. Then you use that 12 man team (with gun drones why not) and obliterate every AV13 and lower tank in the enemy army on turn 1. No combined fire required so nobody can complain that your detachment is being used incorrectly.

That's far less effective and worse in every way from a tactical point of view though. Still could be good. The idea of having 700 pts in one unit as Tau where they aren't three riptides makes me want to puke though. Assault it with one unit of necron warriors and you lost the game

But I agree what I was mentioning would be ridiculous it just seems to read that way. If the RAI are as you say though then the best lists will barely utilize that role or you'll have to bring a 200pt commander and then another unit simply to consolidate fire with a SS and that's an addition 300 pts ish that does nothing but buff one model and try not to die basically

yes it's worse because the RAW way to do it is so incredibly OP i can't imagine keeping friends after attempting it in a game. 50 points of wargear (M3S, C&C Node, PENchip) making 1800 points worth of army (roughly) twin linked ignore cover monster/tank hunter is really absurd. Now making them all of those things, but targeting a single enemy unit for guaranteed destruction - that's strong. Generally speaking shooting with your army in Triads to get the BS buff will usually be enough to take out some tougher units like terminators or tanks - we don't really need to cheese out or loophole a rule like this. I'm hoping GW will issue a clarification.

EVERYONE whether you agree or disagree with the shared rules for combined fire, please email GAMEFAQS@GWPLC.COM with the question. If we want any sort of response it will take a FLOOD of emails to make them consider it since we haven't had any FAQs in 11 months.

Edit - between the shooting phase and 12" supporting fire, i doubt T4 4+ save necron warriors would survive long enough to make it into assault.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoiler:

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
The Codex specifically states Drones do not prevent a character from joining another unit. However if the Character dies the drones stay in that unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit...Ninja posters

Can a IC join a group of Drones do they form one unit to were you can then join it to another unit?

Only drones purchased as wargear allow the characters to drag them along into other units. Same as fenrisian wolves in the space wolves codex.

Drone units bought alone (ie from their dataslate in the fast attack slot or a formation) are their own unit.

Thanks, I was curious if I could do anything extra with the drones that come with O'Ralai. I Just had him leave that unit do he doesn't get the toughness loss and hide him in terrain.

Poor R'Alai has as special rule that prevents him from joining any units whatsoever. Until one of his piddly drones dies his unit is majority T4.

Yeah I just have him leave the drones behind. Wish I could have someone else Scoop them up.

Theres no rule that says you can do that either. he's stuck with them until they die.

I will have to pose that question to FW. Will update if I get an answer.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
yes it's worse because the RAW way to do it is so incredibly OP i can't imagine keeping friends after attempting it in a game. 50 points of wargear (M3S, C&C Node, PENchip) making 1800 points worth of army (roughly) twin linked ignore cover monster/tank hunter is really absurd. Now making them all of those things, but targeting a single enemy unit for guaranteed destruction - that's strong. Generally speaking shooting with your army in Triads to get the BS buff will usually be enough to take out some tougher units like terminators or tanks - we don't really need to cheese out or loophole a rule like this. I'm hoping GW will issue a clarification.

EVERYONE whether you agree or disagree with the shared rules for combined fire, please email GAMEFAQS@GWPLC.COM with the question. If we want any sort of response it will take a FLOOD of emails to make them consider it since we haven't had any FAQs in 11 months.

It would be over 350 pts to buff the whole army. The rule becomes useless otherwise because you never really want to commit that much to one target otherwise and if you try to go msu with it you run out of slots and then the amount you can buff and have shoot at separate targets is limited to less than if you just do the 9 man squads with their own buff guy. I don't want the rule to be good just because I can waste two units to buff a SS. That falls right in line with my major complaint of the book not being a new Codex Tau , but a new Codex: Stormsurge and friends

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Spoiler:

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:

 Fishboy wrote:
The Codex specifically states Drones do not prevent a character from joining another unit. However if the Character dies the drones stay in that unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit...Ninja posters

Can a IC join a group of Drones do they form one unit to were you can then join it to another unit?

Only drones purchased as wargear allow the characters to drag them along into other units. Same as fenrisian wolves in the space wolves codex.

Drone units bought alone (ie from their dataslate in the fast attack slot or a formation) are their own unit.

Thanks, I was curious if I could do anything extra with the drones that come with O'Ralai. I Just had him leave that unit do he doesn't get the toughness loss and hide him in terrain.

Poor R'Alai has as special rule that prevents him from joining any units whatsoever. Until one of his piddly drones dies his unit is majority T4.

Yeah I just have him leave the drones behind. Wish I could have someone else Scoop them up.

Theres no rule that says you can do that either. he's stuck with them until they die.

I will have to pose that question to FW. Will update if I get an answer.

That works. I"m going by the rule that states drones as wargear always accompany the suit that bought them. As it reads from the 7e book : "Drones taken as upgrades for a unit act as additional squad members in all regards. they are unable to leave their unit and must maintain unit coherency with their unit at all times. ... Independent characters who have taken drones as upgrades are still permitted to join units" (except r'alai - my addition) ... it goes on but basically the drones always follow the character that bought them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jakejackjake wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
yes it's worse because the RAW way to do it is so incredibly OP i can't imagine keeping friends after attempting it in a game. 50 points of wargear (M3S, C&C Node, PENchip) making 1800 points worth of army (roughly) twin linked ignore cover monster/tank hunter is really absurd. Now making them all of those things, but targeting a single enemy unit for guaranteed destruction - that's strong. Generally speaking shooting with your army in Triads to get the BS buff will usually be enough to take out some tougher units like terminators or tanks - we don't really need to cheese out or loophole a rule like this. I'm hoping GW will issue a clarification.

EVERYONE whether you agree or disagree with the shared rules for combined fire, please email GAMEFAQS@GWPLC.COM with the question. If we want any sort of response it will take a FLOOD of emails to make them consider it since we haven't had any FAQs in 11 months.

It would be over 350 pts to buff the whole army. The rule becomes useless otherwise because you never really want to commit that much to one target otherwise and if you try to go msu with it you run out of slots and then the amount you can buff and have shoot at separate targets is limited to less than if you just do the 9 man squads with their own buff guy. I don't want the rule to be good just because I can waste two units to buff a SS. That falls right in line with my major complaint of the book not being a new Codex Tau , but a new Codex: Stormsurge and friends

Email GW. encourage your friends and local area 40k players to as well. Until then abide by whatever rules you and your friends decide are fair, or go by the TO's decision at a tournament. that's all i can say on it bruh.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
yes it's worse because the RAW way to do it is so incredibly OP i can't imagine keeping friends after attempting it in a game. 50 points of wargear (M3S, C&C Node, PENchip) making 1800 points worth of army (roughly) twin linked ignore cover monster/tank hunter is really absurd. Now making them all of those things, but targeting a single enemy unit for guaranteed destruction - that's strong. Generally speaking shooting with your army in Triads to get the BS buff will usually be enough to take out some tougher units like terminators or tanks - we don't really need to cheese out or loophole a rule like this. I'm hoping GW will issue a clarification.

EVERYONE whether you agree or disagree with the shared rules for combined fire, please email GAMEFAQS@GWPLC.COM with the question. If we want any sort of response it will take a FLOOD of emails to make them consider it since we haven't had any FAQs in 11 months.

Edit - between the shooting phase and 12" supporting fire, i doubt T4 4+ save necron warriors would survive long enough to make it into assault.

Yeah I know you'd obviously have the guy with staff of light a 2+/4+ in front and a Resurrection orb for it to actually work, I was exaggerating

jakejackjake wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
yes it's worse because the RAW way to do it is so incredibly OP i can't imagine keeping friends after attempting it in a game. 50 points of wargear (M3S, C&C Node, PENchip) making 1800 points worth of army (roughly) twin linked ignore cover monster/tank hunter is really absurd. Now making them all of those things, but targeting a single enemy unit for guaranteed destruction - that's strong. Generally speaking shooting with your army in Triads to get the BS buff will usually be enough to take out some tougher units like terminators or tanks - we don't really need to cheese out or loophole a rule like this. I'm hoping GW will issue a clarification.

EVERYONE whether you agree or disagree with the shared rules for combined fire, please email GAMEFAQS@GWPLC.COM with the question. If we want any sort of response it will take a FLOOD of emails to make them consider it since we haven't had any FAQs in 11 months.

Edit - between the shooting phase and 12" supporting fire, i doubt T4 4+ save necron warriors would survive long enough to make it into assault.

Yeah I know you'd obviously have the guy with staff of light a 2+/4+ in front and a Resurrection orb for it to actually work, I was exaggerating

Necron Wraiths, on the other hand...they get into assault very quickly. pesky buggers, them.

I find emailing team@whitedwarf.co.uk helps more than the gamefaqs@gwplc.com much more prompt response and they explain it better than the FAQs do.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I find emailing team@whitedwarf.co.uk helps more than the gamefaqs@gwplc.com much more prompt response and they explain it better than the FAQs do.

Great! Just sent an email to them, too. Everyone should. Let's drown them in questions!

I know nobody is going to think it's in their best interests, but we should probably, after the official release date of the codex, get them to clarify you don't share rules between Tau Decurion units sharing markerlights.

changemod wrote:
I know nobody is going to think it's in their best interests, but we should probably, after the official release date of the codex, get them to clarify you don't share rules between Tau Decurion units sharing markerlights.

I'd suggest to ask them the question in a more open-ended way. I'll abide by whatever the decision stands to be, if it's ever addressed (as most everyone else will too).

Wait are we positive target lock still exists or isn't forbidden expressly from having an effect? I havent seen that page. That would solve this quickly

I never really thought about it until now but with the increased number of these formations that specifically say take X number of Y unit. How it will effect use of FW units. I wonder if we will see less of them now due to the strict adherence to formations rather than CAD. I know CAD still exists but with the boons you get from just playing formations it kind of make a lot of FW units seem hung out to dry.

jakejackjake wrote:
Wait are we positive target lock still exists or isn't forbidden expressly from having an effect? I havent seen that page. That would solve this quickly

I've got the book. Target locks are still in, cost the same points, and are worded exactly as before.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
Wait are we positive target lock still exists or isn't forbidden expressly from having an effect? I havent seen that page. That would solve this quickly

I've got the book. Target locks are still in, cost the same points, and are worded exactly as before.

Game broken

Maybe it's intentional to force people to stop restricting things like multiple WK's but all that will happen is it will get restricted too which is fine because its insane

 Vineheart01 wrote:
There is a bit of a perk to making the coldstar commander take a drone controller. If he attaches to a drone squad, his rule about them simply "disappearing" when he takes to the air doesnt mention a model limit or that it has to be the ones he bought.
You can attach him to a large squad of drones, take to the air and fly to an objective, drop down and unload some insane amount of BS5 dakka in some troops face. Then you can either take off and leave the drones in that side of the board or do it again for another location.

Kinda like precision deepstriking with 0 risk. Aside from the obvious bad dice luck and getting tabled when hes on the ground lol

Can he even join a unit? He's kinda in that grey area that O'vesa is in with regards to MCs/ICs and joining units.

Soz if this has been mentioned (might have missed a few pages). I'm not sure if we have seen the dataslate thingie for Firewarrior Strike Teams but I can confirm that according to the rules that come in the box they are 5-12 models while Breacher teams are 5-10.

Ta.

So has anyone received a box of the new crisis suits and the new commander? If so can you confirm whether these are on 40mm or 50mm bases?

Has anyone purchased the reboxed stealth suits? If so can you confirm if these are on 25mm or 30mm bases?

On a similar note, has anyone come out with a 40mm to 50mm base extender/conversion for pre-existing 40mm bases?

The online store lists what size bases the Commander and Crisis Suits come with.

 Mid-life Crisis Suit wrote:
Soz if this has been mentioned (might have missed a few pages). I'm not sure if we have seen the dataslate thingie for Firewarrior Strike Teams but I can confirm that according to the rules that come in the box they are 5-12 models while Breacher teams are 5-10.

Ta.

It has, just keep in mind you can only build 10 strikers with the new box .

 Ghaz wrote:
The online store lists what size bases the Commander and Crisis Suits come with.

OK, so 50mm for the Crisis Suits and 60mm for the commander.

Stealth Suits aren't listed though. Anyone know?

Also, anyone know of any retailers selling 40 to 50mm base extenders?

 wyomingfox wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
The online store lists what size bases the Commander and Crisis Suits come with.

OK, so 50mm for the Crisis Suits and 60mm for the commander.

Stealth Suits aren't listed though. Anyone know?

Also, anyone know of any retailers selling 40 to 50mm base extenders?

Stealth Suits are on 32mm bases, per the reboxed set/Burning Dawn.

You can still run them on 25mm bases just fine but the 32s look better IMO.

Thanks Kanluwen,

I found a company called Underground Lasers which will make 40mm to 50mm and 40mm to 60mm conversion rings out of either MDF (for $0.50 and $0.75 respectively) or acrylic (for $1 or $1.50 respectively). Free shipping in US if order is $20 or more. It is a custom order so you have to contact them via email as they are not listed parts on their webpages.

Not bad as I spent a lot of time on some of my crisis suit bases and don't want to have to tear the models off.

https://undergroundlasers.com/index.php?id_product=24&controller=product

LighthouseM wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
There is a bit of a perk to making the coldstar commander take a drone controller. If he attaches to a drone squad, his rule about them simply "disappearing" when he takes to the air doesnt mention a model limit or that it has to be the ones he bought.
You can attach him to a large squad of drones, take to the air and fly to an objective, drop down and unload some insane amount of BS5 dakka in some troops face. Then you can either take off and leave the drones in that side of the board or do it again for another location.

Kinda like precision deepstriking with 0 risk. Aside from the obvious bad dice luck and getting tabled when hes on the ground lol

Can he even join a unit? He's kinda in that grey area that O'vesa is in with regards to MCs/ICs and joining units.

There is no grey area. There is no rule preventing an IC from joining a unit of non-MC models. The fact that the IC might be an MC has no impact. Order is important. O'Vesa has to actively join another unit. No other IC can then join a unit containing O'Vesa. In other words, make sure O'Vesa is the last to join. Coldstar Commanders would also need to be the last to join.

Is Longstrike still a thing in the new codex? If so, perhaps Hammerheads are not completely worthless. I just so happen to have all the models I need to run a minimum Hunter Cadre, so for future purchases I just need to get some stuff to make one or more of the Auxiliaries (I'm thinking Optimized Stealth Cadre since I love the new Ghostkeel model). Also, can Crisis suits take two Missile Pods any more? I noticed the new Crisis team box only comes with three (maybe that is just GW trying to make us buy more of them to get enough weapons ). Sorry if these questions have already been answered, I just didn't feel like fishing through pages and pages of posts to find them.

 Kriswall wrote:

LighthouseM wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
There is a bit of a perk to making the coldstar commander take a drone controller. If he attaches to a drone squad, his rule about them simply "disappearing" when he takes to the air doesnt mention a model limit or that it has to be the ones he bought.
You can attach him to a large squad of drones, take to the air and fly to an objective, drop down and unload some insane amount of BS5 dakka in some troops face. Then you can either take off and leave the drones in that side of the board or do it again for another location.

Kinda like precision deepstriking with 0 risk. Aside from the obvious bad dice luck and getting tabled when hes on the ground lol

Can he even join a unit? He's kinda in that grey area that O'vesa is in with regards to MCs/ICs and joining units.

There is no grey area. There is no rule preventing an IC from joining a unit of non-MC models. The fact that the IC might be an MC has no impact. Order is important. O'Vesa has to actively join another unit. No other IC can then join a unit containing O'Vesa. In other words, make sure O'Vesa is the last to join. Coldstar Commanders would also need to be the last to join.

I'm pretty sure my local TO doesn't rule it that way, even if they did that sounds like the worst kind of rules lawyering.

If you DONT rule it that way, then any IC that happens to be an MC literally cannot use his IC rules...ever. Theres not a single rule ICs get that doesnt involve a unit.